D.O.C.'s = Dis'ers of Color (Disney Fans of Color)

Would you like a dedicated/featured Forum for D.O.C.'s Dis'ers Of Color & Allies


  • Total voters
    248
While I support this forum and feel it is definitely a constructive addition to the Dis, I'm not sure it really belongs in the 'Trip Planning' section as very few posts seem to have anything to do with planning a Disney vacation.

Perhaps it would be a better fit for the 'Just for Fun' section that includes the various Community forums and includes a broad variety of topics? Again, I've enjoyed reading all the various topics y'all have been posting relating to diversity and different experiences, but question why it is categorized under 'Trip Planning'.
 
While I support this forum and feel it is definitely a constructive addition to the Dis, I'm not sure it really belongs in the 'Trip Planning' section as very few posts seem to have anything to do with planning a Disney vacation.

Perhaps it would be a better fit for the 'Just for Fun' section that includes the various Community forums and includes a broad variety of topics? Again, I've enjoyed reading all the various topics y'all have been posting relating to diversity and different experiences, but question why it is categorized under 'Trip Planning'.

I’m confused. This is the DIS Unplugged subforum. I read the OP again, but don’t see anything specific about where he wants it?
 
I’m confused. This is the DIS Unplugged subforum. I read the OP again, but don’t see anything specific about where he wants it?

And the Dis Unplugged is within the Trip Planning Forums. All I was saying is that this feels like more of a community topic (and an important, valued one), rather than a vacation planning topic. Maybe that is simply thread drift. Unless this is a new Podcast, in which case I missed it and apologize for my error.

Now I feel kinda embarrassed for even mentioning it. I'll go back to quiet lurking. :(
 
Certainly race, ethnicity, gender identity, sexual orientation, and more should not be involved in employment decisions. Unfortunately, today they very much are. And that's part of what so many people are fighting for - equality.

Pete and John no doubt would love to hire one or more African/Americans to be on the show. Whenever a spot becomes available, they advertise, interview and hire the best candidate available. Most everyone on the show wears multiple hats. Management, or are travel agents, or IT techs., or whatever. Primarily they are Disney experts that are also entertainers (that's why they call it a show). Pete and John are doing what they can do and are doing their best, though they're not going to do anything that might hurt their business, because they have too many people depending upon them.
 
Pete and John no doubt would love to hire one or more African/Americans to be on the show.
Just to be clear, my post was not referring to Pete or John in any way so I'm not quite sure why you responded as you did. I was speaking in general terms about hiring decisions everywhere.

There was a study done a while ago where a research team found job listings on Indeed. They fabricated resumes for fictitious candidates for those jobs. They submitted two identical resumes for each job, except one had a white-sounding name and one had a Black-sounding name. They tracked the call back rate for the applicants. I don't recall the exact numbers but the call back rate for the white-sounding names was several times higher than for the black-sounding names. Again, the resumes were IDENTICAL except for the person's name. No photo. No in-person contact. Multiple employers were discriminating against well-qualified candidates strictly based on their names.

BIPOC aren't even given a chance in this country much of the time.
 
Hello @disneyland_is_magic - I updated the settings. If you are unable to change your vote send me a direct message and we can check.

You may now change your Vote from "nothing Positive to contribute" to Heck, Yes!

Translation
"I will not stand in the way or silence the voices of my new Brothers & Sisters and their allies! This deserves to be a Forum, why is it not?"
@disneyland_is_magic my new friend and hopefully ally? You have been touched by the magic that is allyship. You are welcome, but why did you feel you were going to just sit and observe? I have been "observing" here on the Dis'board since 2009. But I have been a Man of Color for several decades. This is a time of evolution among people around the world. Can you feel it? <<-- it is seven minutes long, but since the Disney parks here in the states are closed, where can you go? I hope it inspires you and if it makes you want to dance :cool1:around your living room, like no one is watching ( I promise I won't look )

@disneyland_is_magic you took your first step, welcome to the Family of D.OC.'s

Peace, Love & Light pixiedust:
AKL
Thanks. The music was fun to jam to, what a classic.

I guess I should better explain what I meant by listening for now. I thought I had already understood that black lives matter. Certainly there are many black people in my life I have cared deeply about.

Recently, because of a marriage I now have a black niece. It strikes me it’s a relationship I will have the rest of my life. It’s new to me as we navigate it and get to know each other. I feel tender and private about it.

I just know I haven’t done enough listening yet.
 
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Just to be clear, my post was not referring to Pete or John in any way so I'm not quite sure why you responded as you did. I was speaking in general terms about hiring decisions everywhere.

There was a study done a while ago where a research team found job listings on Indeed. They fabricated resumes for fictitious candidates for those jobs. They submitted two identical resumes for each job, except one had a white-sounding name and one had a Black-sounding name. They tracked the call back rate for the applicants. I don't recall the exact numbers but the call back rate for the white-sounding names was several times higher than for the black-sounding names. Again, the resumes were IDENTICAL except for the person's name. No photo. No in-person contact. Multiple employers were discriminating against well-qualified candidates strictly based on their names.

BIPOC aren't even given a chance in this country much of the time.

Not going to argue your point, though how would you solve such a problem.
 
Just to be clear, my post was not referring to Pete or John in any way so I'm not quite sure why you responded as you did. I was speaking in general terms about hiring decisions everywhere.

There was a study done a while ago where a research team found job listings on Indeed. They fabricated resumes for fictitious candidates for those jobs. They submitted two identical resumes for each job, except one had a white-sounding name and one had a Black-sounding name. They tracked the call back rate for the applicants. I don't recall the exact numbers but the call back rate for the white-sounding names was several times higher than for the black-sounding names. Again, the resumes were IDENTICAL except for the person's name. No photo. No in-person contact. Multiple employers were discriminating against well-qualified candidates strictly based on their names.

BIPOC aren't even given a chance in this country much of the time.

Yes I believe the book Freakonomics goes in depth on this.
 
Not going to argue your point, though how would you solve such a problem.
That's a great question. One step that many employers have taken is to blind applications. No name. No gender. No age. They decide who to consider based on qualifications alone - imagine that.

Of course, that alone doesn't solve the problem because at some point, the name and race and gender and age and ethnicity are revealed and can still factor into the hiring decision. But the hope is that by that point, the hiring person has already become invested in the candidate based on their merits and will be less influenced by the other stuff.
 
I was referring to color blindness more In terms of work and employment. An employer has a job that needs to be done in the most timely, cost effective way possible to be able to compete successfully in the marketplace. Employers should be color blind in terms of hiring and getting the job done and culture plays zero part.
*Just want to make it clear that I'm not disagreeing with you, just adding a thought on the subject*

While it's absolutely true that candidates should not be disregarded based on factors such as race, gender, sexual orientation, etc, or the appearance thereof (obviously it's illegal in the US to discriminate based on these), and that blind applications like you mention are a step in the right direction, I would add that to a degree culture can and should play a part in the value someone can bring to a job. I work with my company's Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion team and we talk about hiring a lot.

Operating with excellence requires broad and bold thinking. One of the best things you can do to ensure your team is at its best is to make sure your group is diverse, and that there are different backgrounds, thought processes, learning/teaching styles, all of that. And someone's culture can influence those things and be a part of the unique value they bring to the table. If your team is all made of people who are basically the same, there won't be much progress.

There can also be a lot of issues with job applications with very extensive basic qualifications that can actually be a form of bias and even discrimination, but that's a whole other conversation.
 
*Just want to make it clear that I'm not disagreeing with you, just adding a thought on the subject*

While it's absolutely true that candidates should not be disregarded based on factors such as race, gender, sexual orientation, etc, or the appearance thereof (obviously it's illegal in the US to discriminate based on these), and that blind applications like you mention are a step in the right direction, I would add that to a degree culture can and should play a part in the value someone can bring to a job. I work with my company's Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion team and we talk about hiring a lot.

Operating with excellence requires broad and bold thinking. One of the best things you can do to ensure your team is at its best is to make sure your group is diverse, and that there are different backgrounds, thought processes, learning/teaching styles, all of that. And someone's culture can influence those things and be a part of the unique value they bring to the table. If your team is all made of people who are basically the same, there won't be much progress.

There can also be a lot of issues with job applications with very extensive basic qualifications that can actually be a form of bias and even discrimination, but that's a whole other conversation.
I agree completely. Having different cultures and backgrounds and life experiences on a team makes a huge difference. And this doesn't just refer to race. Having people from different parts of the country or other countries, different ages, different everything.

Where I work, our team is very diverse: men, women, young, old, just out of school, decades of experience, white, Black, Asian, Indian, physical disability, etc. I'm not involved in hiring at all but I think whoever is does a phenomenal job.
 
While I support this forum and feel it is definitely a constructive addition to the Dis, I'm not sure it really belongs in the 'Trip Planning' section as very few posts seem to have anything to do with planning a Disney vacation.

Perhaps it would be a better fit for the 'Just for Fun' section that includes the various Community forums and includes a broad variety of topics? Again, I've enjoyed reading all the various topics y'all have been posting relating to diversity and different experiences, but question why it is categorized under 'Trip Planning'.
We are waiting for the activation of our Forum. At that time we will be moved to the best location, alongside our Forum ally LBGTQ+ Forum. Please keep in mind, the inspiration for this Thread is Disney (vacation) experiences by those individuals of Color (Black, Latino, Asian, Pacific Asian Islander, First Nation, and Native American Indian people) and our Allies. This is the Disney vacation experience (planning and post-trip reviews ) including Disney history, entertainment from the perspective of People of Color, and our Allies.
 
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I brought up previously wanting to know Walt's stance on segregation and if the parks were or not. I just listened to the episode of Connecting with Walt from last week and one of the trivia questions sort of touched on the subject. I believe it was about the Mickey Mouse Club being shown in theaters and Walt and Roy wouldnt show it in theaters unless it could be enjoyed by all and wouldn't allow for the theater to be segregated.

While I think this podcast is worth a listen to begin with the trivia portion is about the last 20 minutes or so of every show if you don't want to listen to the whole thing (but you should).

*Edited to add that it was episode 154, titled Peter Pan's Flight from July 3rd
This isn't on YouTube, but you can easily find it on any podcast platform.
 
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I hadn’t been to Disney in over ten years when I started planning my first multigenerational trip with mom and my 3 year old daughter. I had always wanted to stay at AKL but now that I’m part of a blended family, I worried that it was in poor taste. We ended up getting bumped to The Vice Pesidential Suite from a 2br club room because they overbooked and boy, I wasn’t sure we could ever have a vacation that good. Last year I started looking into DVC and saw that so much of the marketing materials featured diverse families. We stayed at Beach Club and I just bought AKV DVC resale today.
im glad you started this thread, I’m in several Facebook racial justice forums and I’m just so glad some people are finally listening to POC. May it be more and more and may implicit bias be rooted out in my lifetime.
Hello @Deeleebaker,
My welcome post to you and your family is long overdue. I wanted to reach out and to say thank you for contributing to the DOC's thread. I am sure many would be interested in reading more about your family's experience at Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge. You wrote you were "worried it was in poor taste." I am curious to learn more about your initial concerns about the lodge.
  • Did you stay in Jambo House or Kidani Village?
  • What were some of the key points that shifted your impressions of the Lodge from poor taste to positive?
  • What was your family's reaction to the lodge?
  • What advice would you recommend to Families of Color or Allies who are undecided about staying at Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge?
  • Would you share more about your blended family and how your family's Disney experience differed prior to becoming a blended family?

I hope you find the exchange of information and resources helpful.
Wishing Peace, Love & Light
 
I brought up previously wanting to know Walt's stance on segregation and if the parks were or not. I just listened to the episode of Connecting with Walt from last week and one of the trivia questions sort of touched on the subject. I believe it was about the Mickey Mouse Club being shown in theaters and Walt and Roy wouldnt show it in theaters unless it could be enjoyed by all and wouldn't allow for the theater to be segregated.

While I think this podcast is worth a listen, to begin with the trivia portion is about the last 20 minutes or so of every show if you don't want to listen to the whole thing (but you should).
Hi @Lindsey17,
Can you provide the episode number from "Connecting to Walt" that you referred to in your post? As we have several new members who may be new to the "Dis" and "Dis Podcasts", it makes it easier to find if there are reading your post at a future date.
Thank you for highlighting that, as we had some inquiries from fellow DOC's regarding the topic of segregation and the early Disney Company, Disney Theme park years.

Peace, Love and pixiedust:
AKL Ranger
 
Hi @Lindsey17,
Can you provide the episode number from "Connecting to Walt" that you referred to in your post? As we have several new members who may be new to the "Dis" and "Dis Podcasts", it makes it easier to find if there are reading your post at a future date.
Thank you for highlighting that, as we had some inquiries from fellow DOC's regarding the topic of segregation and the early Disney Company, Disney Theme park years.

Peace, Love and pixiedust:
AKL Ranger

Updated my original post to include that information.
 
A white person’s view (Since we need to acknowledge that for validity or judgement’s sake?)

And I hesitate to post in these discussions but I think there are a lot of other’s who smartly stay silent. Here goes...

I don’t agree that white people should be called racist if they were taught to be color blind. I grew up in the 90’s. It seemed like the idea had good intentions to promote equality. Saying genuinely “we don’t see color” or “I have black friends” isn’t enough to vouch for yourself anymore. OK. Noted.

Now that we need to acknowledge the differences, we should be given the opportunity to reprogram without being vilified (even though it is past time for equality and surprising to me that racism still exists). I’ve seen racism in previous generations and I honestly thought it was better with each one. The tensions now though, do feel divisive and like a huge step backwards to me.

Also, if I can’t receive compassion in return about theses issues, I understand why people would point out a double standard and not be as receptive. Or do we need a taste of our own medicine? I didn’t personally enslave anyone. But I’m automatically guilty? When you see Asians, you see rich history and culture. So what do you see in white people?

And I understand it’s not POC’s job to educate but it’s great that there are advocates bringing things to light. Though I can only absorb so much of everyone else’s experiences, good or bad, to help shape the person that I am (which I thought was decent). I can empathize without first hand experience or in depth history lessons. But certain things just haven’t pertained to me.

Like, non-racial examples, I’ve never been in a devasting house fire or have known anyone who has. Or broken a bone. Never jumped out of an airplane. Never been in a band. But I can empathize with the bad or enjoy the good through knowing other people have had those experiences.

Continuing with differences, and hair as racial example, does knowing how some POC struggle with their hair help other people to better acknowledge and celebrate the cultural differences? And if I like cornrows and want to adopt that style, I’ll be told it’s cultural appropriation by any race at this point. I think Bo Derek was the last white person to pull it off. What else needs to be pointed out that separates us in a celebratory way? Style of music? Clothes? Language? But only certain groups can emulate those things? Can we really acknowledge differences, then?

Thanks if you’ve read this far and not rolled your eyes out of your head. I honestly don’t know how to come to a close with any of these thoughts. I can usually see the gray area in most matters and don’t think I fall into one side or the other. All I know is racism is wrong and I try not to perpetuate it. Is that not good enough? Equality for all?
 
Hi, @AKL Ranger! Thanks for starting this thread and hopefully forum. I've been spending extra time browsing the disboards since I've been working from home, and I wanted to join in the conversation as an ally who shares your love for Animal Kingdom! It's so detailed and beautiful. I love the rides and the atmosphere there.

Also, your post about Tron 3 got me excited! I just recently watched both of the Tron movies for the first time, and they were so good. Definitely impressed by what they were able to do graphics wise with the first film. I feel like it still holds up well. I really enjoyed Tron: Legacy, too. The soundtrack was awesome and the whole new futuristic look was great. As for Tron 3, I'm on board for Daft Punk doing the soundtrack again, but I'm not quite sure about Jared Leto. Although I just saw some pictures of him from Blade Runner 2049 (another movie I need to add to my quarantine watch list), and it sold me that he might make a good Tron villain if that's what he's set to play.
Hi there @Disneymoon23,
I thought I was the only person who is a true fan of TRON. Glad to see I am not alone.
I was concerned with my post about TRON movie news was lost and of little interest. That was the second post about Tron. To capture eyes, I included some of the coolest graphics.
In case anyone missed the previous posts about the Tron, you may click the links below.

July 2, 2020: Tron Light Cycle Power Run: WDW

July 9, 2020: Good News for Disney Sci-Fi (Tron) fans

Peace & Light-Cycles for everyone

508953
 
A white person’s view (Since we need to acknowledge that for validity or judgement’s sake?)

And I hesitate to post in these discussions but I think there are a lot of other’s who smartly stay silent. Here goes...

I don’t agree that white people should be called racist if they were taught to be color blind. I grew up in the 90’s. It seemed like the idea had good intentions to promote equality. Saying genuinely “we don’t see color” or “I have black friends” isn’t enough to vouch for yourself anymore. OK. Noted.

I'm also a white person who also thought in exactly the same manner you did so I completely understand your frustrations and hopefully I can shed some light on why times have changed or haven't changed in some ways.

Being "colorblind" was also something I was originally taught too. Unfortunately, it is problematic since it leads to ignoring what happens when those who see the color of one's skin in a negative light results in. It ignores the plight BIPOC have experienced so while in the end we shouldn't have to see color, we do and we have to acknowledge it to understand how to get it so people don't have these racial biases.

Saying you have Black friends, while it's good to know you have a diverse friend group, you are using them as tokens in that moment. That you are almost friends with them exclusively to eliminate racial bias and not for any other reason, which is unfair. Not to mention, not all Black people are the same, not everyone of them experiences the same type of discrimination. There is nuance much as there is nuance among white people, gay people, Latinx people, etc. Racism however eliminates that nuance so although you have good intentions, it does perpetuate a racist narrative.

Now that we need to acknowledge the differences, we should be given the opportunity to reprogram without being vilified (even though it is past time for equality and surprising to me that racism still exists). I’ve seen racism in previous generations and I honestly thought it was better with each one. The tensions now though, do feel divisive and like a huge step backwards to me.

It is a very divided time, you are correct, but that is not on Black people who are asking for true equity in society, it's on those who don't believe they deserve that or who choose to ignore that they don't have it. While there have been some improvements, many undercurrents of racism still have not changed, they've just presented themselves in different ways and now it's been highlighted by the Black Lives Matter movement. It's not to say it hasn't been there. It also is important to note that us as white people do not experience racism. We have never been oppressed so have never experienced oppression as a result of the color of our skin. Going about life, we would never notice it. That's white privilege. Much like how a straight person wouldn't know how one has experienced homophobia from their own experiences or a cisgender person wouldn't know how one has experienced transphobia from their own experiences. It's not bad to have privilege, it's actually quite good and we should feel pretty happy with the fact we haven't had to experience racism, however it's not to say we should ignore it or as a result say it doesn't exist.

Also, if I can’t receive compassion in return about theses issues, I understand why people would point out a double standard and not be as receptive. Or do we need a taste of our own medicine? I didn’t personally enslave anyone. But I’m automatically guilty? When you see Asians, you see rich history and culture. So what do you see in white people?

I'm a little confused on what you are trying to say here, but it's not just compassion it's empathy. We don't need a taste of our own medicine so-to-speak, but to just listen to the struggles of the Black community. We might not have hurt them personally, however there are systems in place that may have influenced us in ways we didn't understand before. It's not enough to just "not be racist" but be anti-racist. To look at ourselves and say, "Is there a way I can make others of a different skin color feel more comfortable and safe?" You may feel guilty, yes, but if you try to reprogram, nobody's gonna vilify you for it, they will support you as allies and marginalized communities have always done. They might criticize and offer up new perspectives, but that's all constructive.

And I understand it’s not POC’s job to educate but it’s great that there are advocates bringing things to light. Though I can only absorb so much of everyone else’s experiences, good or bad, to help shape the person that I am (which I thought was decent). I can empathize without first hand experience or in depth history lessons. But certain things just haven’t pertained to me.

It's a lot I know and it's not to say you have to be an activist come tomorrow. Not everyone is up to the task. It's also not to say you can't still be a decent person or that you weren't. I genuinely did not know what was going on until someone brought it up to me and directed me to resources where I began to educate myself. It was then I felt I had to continue to speak out and in support of BIPOC, which is what we're doing. Not everything I've learned is pertinent to me, but that's just how diversity works. Not everyone has the same experiences, but it doesn't mean we should ignore it and instead should try to figure out how to make everyone's lives easier.

Like, non-racial examples, I’ve never been in a devasting house fire or have known anyone who has. Or broken a bone. Never jumped out of an airplane. Never been in a band. But I can empathize with the bad or enjoy the good through knowing other people have had those experiences.

If knowing people helps you understand more, you've come to the right place to begin to understand. Even then, you don't know everyone so you don't always know about all sorts of injustice that exist in this world.

Continuing with differences, and hair as racial example, does knowing how some POC struggle with their hair help other people to better acknowledge and celebrate the cultural differences? And if I like cornrows and want to adopt that style, I’ll be told it’s cultural appropriation by any race at this point. I think Bo Derek was the last white person to pull it off. What else needs to be pointed out that separates us in a celebratory way? Style of music? Clothes? Language? But only certain groups can emulate those things? Can we really acknowledge differences, then?

The issue of cultural appropriation from what I understand as a white person is that for things like cornrows and Black hair in general, Black people often get discriminated against for those styles whereas we do not for donning the same. They are seen as unprofessional or lesser than. White people or in some cases non-Black POC have not received that form of discrimination. Then, without consequence, white people start donning cornrows or dreads as some new quirky trend and are praised for it. Although we may not mean it to, it can come off as insulting to what those styles mean to them as well as what they have had to endure as a result of having to use those styles. There is a reason why dreadlocks and cornrows exist, which is not just to be stylish and white people appropriating it ignores that. Not to mention, dreadlocks are not good for a white person's hair. Black people are more than welcome to share our culture with us, but it's not our right to make it our own in complete misunderstanding, which is what is happening. It's similar to how people make fun of Asian languages, actually knowing the language and being able to speak it is not culturally appropriative, but making fun of it is, which also makes it racist.

I could elaborate a lot on this. I hope all that makes sense.

Thanks if you’ve read this far and not rolled your eyes out of your head. I honestly don’t know how to come to a close with any of these thoughts. I can usually see the gray area in most matters and don’t think I fall into one side or the other. All I know is racism is wrong and I try not to perpetuate it. Is that not good enough? Equality for all?

I'm glad to hear you think racism is wrong and try not to perpetuate it. This is exactly what this thread is for to educate on how to do that, on how to stop it. I'm glad you believe in equality for all, but equality for all is easier said than done. Equality for all requires some action, which is where anti-racism comes in and dismantling racist systems that have snuck their way in after previous ones were taken down. This type of methodology also expands to other forms of inequality like with gender and sexuality. Inequality, discrimination and injustice do not cease to exist with just saying you are gonna not let it exist, you have to take action to ensure that.

It's a lot to do that I know, I've been educating myself on this for years alongside many other endeavors and other forms of inequality in this country. I learn something new every day and have had to do a lot of difficult reflection on myself as a result. I just know that it will all make the difference and that someone suddenly feels a bit more comfortable in this world because I took a small simple step to make sure they did.

Change is not easy, but sometimes a little effort can go a long way.

I hope this might've shed some light on things for you and quells any frustrations you had coming in here.
 

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