DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[PrincessV]

I don't believe the attraction CMs are making any determination of who gets what accommodation. There will be certain procedures they offer based on the attraction. A CM trained on operations for that attraction will know how to instruct me when I tell them I need to leave the queue.

Forgive me for asking, but I genuinely don’t know: how would one know which CM is the right one to ask? Earlier I saw that Guests are supposed to ask a CM before joining the queue what accommodation they can get if they don’t have DAS and have a need for something, so I imagine they’d go to the CM at the end of the queue, or maybe those managing the LL entrance. My experience has been that those CMs are already busy handling questions, directing Guests, keeping the queue orderly, etc. It strikes me as a big ask to add figuring out non-DAS accommodations onto that.

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

Forgive me for asking, but I genuinely don’t know: how would one know which CM is the right one to ask? Earlier I saw that Guests are supposed to ask a CM before joining the queue what accommodation they can get if they don’t have DAS and have a need for something, so I imagine they’d go to the CM at the end of the queue, or maybe those managing the LL entrance. My experience has been that those CMs are already busy handling questions, directing Guests, keeping the queue orderly, etc. It strikes me as a big ask to add figuring out non-DAS accommodations onto that.

I asked this question on my registration call just now and they said any CM Honestly they have no idea how this is going to work in practice - the person I spoke with was reading entirely off a script.

 

[jason423]

When you consider how this entire rollout occurred, it is obvious that the people making these decisions really do not understand their disabled customers well enough or don't care enough to try. The amount of communication has been poor, their rollout of queue re-entry literally has no process defined, it is simply to ask a CM at each ride entrance. It is like they wanted to increase everyone's anxiety over this change.

But why does it seem so haphazard? Because Disney doesn't really make any money off of this change. So their investment and interest in the change is much weaker than if they were going to stand to make money.

I think this is accurate. I think Disney made the decision very quickly that this was to be a "firm no" system at least at the beginning of the roll out to completely weed out most individuals who were being given the DAS pass and stop the sharing on social media of "hey I can get a DAS by doing this"...I would guess that Disney would have assumed those calling on the first day in many cases were people testing the system since for most there was probably no hurry to call on the 20th. As with anything you monitor feedback and all the different interactions to probably modify in the future but unfortunately a number of people are being left with a bad taste in their mouth especially since there is a good chance that 4 to 6 months from now those same needs may qualify.

In hindsight I dont think Disney should have rolled this out this aggressively. If you have a trip booked, even if you are an AP, and have previously had a DAS accommodation or were expecting one based on the how you understood the system, making a dramatic change with about 60 days notice is not fair. They would have been better served, IMO, with granting the DAS to these customers with the information that this will no longer qualify after this upcoming trip under the current new guidelines and helping explain to them the accommodations that will be available for future trips at Disney World as well as putting together a real primer on how to make Genie+ work if they opt to purchase in the future. This would have given customers at least the peace of mind for their next trip and Disney far more information with their new process about different conditions that probably should qualify so that the right people are getting the accommodations they need.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

They are putting in some money for sure, but if you compare it to the Genie+ rollout, Disney certainly put more effort into communicating that change (there were videos and blog entries, etc).

If they stood to make money off of this change, would they have put in more effort? I am 100% sure they would have.

I think these two things are reading into something that is unlikely to even be the case especially discussing if they made money off of it they would put more effort in, respectfully speaking of course.

Bringing in Genie+ in terms of a product is also IMO just not analogous. It's like trying to discuss smaller adjustments to day to day operations with the implementation of MDE and MagicBands. There's a huge amount of software adjustments and a slew of other things when they transitioned to FP+ instead of paper FPs, built up on that to bring a version to DLR with MP, then swap to Genie+/ILL.

DAS is readjusting how a product works. It takes money in costs to do that but it isn't on the same grand scale as other changes that doesn't mean they are treating the disabled community as lesser than purposefully spending the least amount of money as possible just because their changes are for DAS in particular.

I just think people may want to pause here, Disney isn't the best at changes, some of that is intentional because they want to keep stuff close to the inner workings of the company so the public isn't going to get as much information as we want, others is because historically that's how they are. I think it's totally okay to vent that frustration and irritation to a point, but they aren't targeting a person on a personal level though.

 

[Genie+]

I’d also keep in mind the advice given before DAS changed:
If DAS is not granted for your party, go try and do the park. If things are not working out well then at least you’ll have clear examples to go back and explain to the CMs to re-evaluate.

This could be part of WDWs strategy too. Maybe they want people with certain issues to at least try and see if alternative assistance works.

 

[Disneychick75]

I really want to hear from someone who rides the haunted mansion since the change if they no longer tell you to fill in all available space before you enter the mansion. That would seriously be amazing if true. I can keep out of the crowd for this ride everywhere else but this extreme anxiety producing part.

I'll post our HM experience next week in this thread.

 

[lanejudy]

how would one know which CM is the right one to ask?

If you have a question prior to entering the queue, ask the CM at the entrance to the queue -- that might be standby or LL, depending on which you will be entering.

If you have a question at the time of leaving the queue, it would be whatever CM you find first. Either one along the queue or the one back at the entrance.

Since CMs typically rotate roles at an attraction, I would expect any CM at that attraction can answer the question of "what should I do if I need to leave the queue?"

 

[sprem96]

I will say, we don't know for certain, but early reports from a claimed operations CM is that returning to the line will be through the Lightning Lane, so you wouldn't necessarily draw attention to yourself when doing so. You would meet the rest of your party at the merge point where standby and lightning lane lines converge.

I can't really speak for exiting the line, as every line is different and finding a CM can be difficult.

In an earlier version of queue re-entry (called "bathroom pass") it was stated that you would receive a lanyard to identify that you were given a bathroom pass and could return to meet your party.

Currently the video chat CMs are recommending you talk to a CM before to join the standby line to ask about options. So if for example, you were given this lanyard (or some kind of pass) for return to queue when you joined the line, then you wouldn't need to find a CM before you exited and depending on the line, you might be able to exit quickly by opening some of the ropes. If you did not end up needing it, you could hand it to a CM before to boarded the ride.

At the end of the day, the recommendation to speak to a CM before you join the standby line is probably the best one and let them help you make a determination what option will work best for your situation.

As more people experience the various "new" accommodations available, I am sure we will get a better idea of how things work and you can decide what would work best for your situation.

Certainly, it would have helped if Disney would have communicated all of the options available and in a more defined way than they currently have. Most of the accommodations are listed on their website, but how they work in practice is not well documented imho.

It always seems to be this notion that with the RTQ option that, the person using it, will always just magically return to the LL line in time and wait for their party to merge with them and everything is hunky dory. I want to know is where is the information if that doesn't happen. What happens if a person who used RTQ and doesn't make it back in time (some disabilities force people to be gone for extended periods of time, not to be compared to a pee break of a small child), how are they joining their group (I know guests would not be cool with people budding them after the merge), how if they already got to the front and had to ride the ride. This one-size-fits-all policy of RTQ to fix a lot of disabilities is really short-minded and would only cause more issues when the people that used that accommodation run into that said situation.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

OK. I can't be the only one here who doesn't recognize the nuances of suing in federal court vs a class action suit, so it seemed your initial statement about "conditioning their reasonable accommodation on a waiver of a legal rights" wasn't connecting.

My basic understanding is...if I feel I've been wronged then I contact a lawyer; in this situation it may need to be a lawyer licensed in FL because that's where the WDW parks are located and where the wrong occurred. That lawyer cannot conjoin my case with others' cases to create a single large class action suit. A class action may or may not actually apply to an individual's specific circumstances -- especially in a situation like DAS or other accommodations where each individual's needs may differ, which is part of why the class action was separated for the GAC suit.

Parents waive their children's rights to many things. However, I do know that if there is a strong enough case, most such waivers don't end up holding water and a lawsuit will still move forward in the courts.

Class action lawsuits are a specific form of civil lawsuits. These special lawsuits typically involve a large group of members who have been injured. If you are an injured member of a class of individuals, essentially the class of injured members can join together to sue another person/business. It is a strength in numbers situation, similar to a union that negotiates business agreements with an employer. A member can opt-out of a class action and sue directly. But that's a choice. TWDC is conditioning the ADA accommodation upon the person waiving his/her/their right to even join the class. Now the choice isn't whether to join the class or go it alone against TWDC in a lawsuit, the choice is if you want the accommodation you must sue individually against TWDC. The truth is that TWDC has far, far more money and power than the individual guest (save for a few people like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk).

Disability laws may be both federal and state. Class actions may be sued in federal court or state court. A violation of the Americans with Disability Act (a federal law) would be in federal court. I don't practice law in Florida and I don't know if it has a state disabilities law. It may.

I find this whole exercise by TWDC to be extremely interesting. You know to fight the DAS abuse and to manage the DAS system as it was intended, the entire DAS program is going to be overhauled and one of the new features (that was never disclosed by TWDC months ago when it was announced that the DAS program was changing) is a waiver of a person's legal right to sue as a member of a class. How does that defeat DAS abuse? How is that going to restore the DAS program as WDW intended it to operate?

I would submit to you it doesn't. This decision is yet another example of TWDC weaseling their way out of a lawsuit by their guests and treating their guests like any other business would treat a customer. Some would say that's just fine and par for the course. To them, I say Amen! Me on the other hand would say this is wholly inconsistent with the historical advertised park experience which was that WDW and DLR are a cut-above everything else and the guests are going to have the happiest or most magical experience.

Yesterday it was to ALL who come to this happy place, welcome! Now please waive your Constitutional legal right to sue in a class for a reasonable accommodation.

Finally, may God bless you lanejudy for moderating this forum and in particular this thread.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

historical advertised park experience which was that WDW and DLR are a cut-above everything else and the guests are going to have the happiest or most magical experience.

You have a point but I think it's worth keeping in mind that the world itself has changed over the years and the litigations have too. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it although I dealt with Tort issues on auto insurance where in return for reduction in premium you signed away your rights to sue (I think that was PA, NJ, or MD can't exactly remember) but that increasingly forward thinking about potential lawsuits is a more common and expected thing companies do these days because they've also had to face lawsuits much more than in the 1950s and 1970s (those eras purposefully chosen due to DL and WDW opening dates).

 

[jlundeen]

I'm again wondering about someone who needs to leave a queue... my only epxperience with that was in a "switch-back" queue, where after the first turn, you were surrounded on all sides with no way out. How is anyone supposed to be able to "tell a CM" that you need to leave when all you can see are other people crammed all around you. And how are you supposed to "leave the queue," especially when on a scooter?

This is truly my biggest concrern... first the anixety of being in that situation, and then realizing that all the self-calming in the world was not going to fix it, and on top of that, the whole thing being made worse because there is no way out and no one to assist anywhere close.

 

[lanejudy]

my only epxperience with that was in a "switch-back" queue, where after the first turn, you were surrounded on all sides with no way out. How is anyone supposed to be able to "tell a CM" that you need to leave when all you can see are other people crammed all around you. And how are you supposed to "leave the queue," especially when on a scooter?

Someone posted yesterday they had used the Queue Re-entry with a young child who needed to use a restroom. Other guests actually opened the ropes between switchbacks making for an easy exit. How it works with an ECV -- my advise is to ask that specific question on the video chat, and if necessary, before entering a queue.

 

[Liquidice]

Interesting post yesterday on the WDW Magic forums from someone who sounds like a CM:



https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...sney-world-2024.983481/page-250#post-10929937

I posted this same information yesterday as well It definitely is interesting to see the range of options the front line CMs will have access to.

 

[sprem96]

I'm again wondering about someone who needs to leave a queue... my only epxperience with that was in a "switch-back" queue, where after the first turn, you were surrounded on all sides with no way out. How is anyone supposed to be able to "tell a CM" that you need to leave when all you can see are other people crammed all around you. And how are you supposed to "leave the queue," especially when on a scooter?

This is truly my biggest concrern... first the anixety of being in that situation, and then realizing that all the self-calming in the world was not going to fix it, and on top of that, the whole thing being made worse because there is no way out and no one to assist anywhere close.

I know in GotG, once you get past the pre-show rooms and join the last line queue, there is almost no CMs to speak of until you get to the front of the line, how is someone with a disability emergency supposed to acquire a RTQ pass at that point

SM has a very long queue with no CMs in the long tunnel
I could go on an on with a lot of attractions with this crisis of CMs not just standing every 10 ft

 

[Liquidice]

I just tried to register and was denied. Long-time DAS user who has a physical condition that I was born with resulting in my needing to leave the line multiple times if over 20-30 min (including DAS/LL line).

They offered return to queue and meet my party…even though my party is a small child who I would not leave alone. They suggested talking to a CM at each ride and explaining my ‘unique’ situation and they would try to help.

So there you have it.

This is another example of someone being told to have a child wait in line while the adult exits the queue and then re-enters.

Are we still doubting the other person who also said they were told a 5 year old child could hold their place in line while they exited?

 

[Philsfan77]

This is another example of someone being told to have a child wait in line while the adult exits the queue and then re-enters.

Are we still doubting the other person who also said they were told a 5 year old child could hold their place in line while they exited?

Yes...because in this case after they pointed out that their party was a small child, they were informed to follow the policy, which is to speak with the attractions cast member at individual rides, about how they can accommodate her unique needs. This CM didn't continue to tell her the child would need to wait and hold their place in line, which is what the other poster kept emphasizing and the part that I found hard to believe.

 

[Liquidice]

I think these two things are reading into something that is unlikely to even be the case especially discussing if they made money off of it they would put more effort in, respectfully speaking of course.

Bringing in Genie+ in terms of a product is also IMO just not analogous. It's like trying to discuss smaller adjustments to day to day operations with the implementation of MDE and MagicBands. There's a huge amount of software adjustments and a slew of other things when they transitioned to FP+ instead of paper FPs, built up on that to bring a version to DLR with MP, then swap to Genie+/ILL.

DAS is readjusting how a product works. It takes money in costs to do that but it isn't on the same grand scale as other changes that doesn't mean they are treating the disabled community as lesser than purposefully spending the least amount of money as possible just because their changes are for DAS in particular.

I just think people may want to pause here, Disney isn't the best at changes, some of that is intentional because they want to keep stuff close to the inner workings of the company so the public isn't going to get as much information as we want, others is because historically that's how they are. I think it's totally okay to vent that frustration and irritation to a point, but they aren't targeting a person on a personal level though.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree I do hear what you are saying that this is a small change not a large one (even though it feels like a large one to those who were previously using DAS and now have been denied or maybe denied).

As an example, here are smaller park changes, including changes to Genie+ that Disney took the effort to put a blog entry out for and fully explain the changes. True these are multiple changes, but each one is a small change: https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...ng-more-value-and-flexibility-to-your-visits/

I'll go back to, if Disney looked at their customers and considered that their customers with disabilities are more likely to suffer from anxiety and changes such as these cause lots of anxiety - they would have put more effort into documenting how the changes would work.

If DAS was somehow a money maker for them, they would have a larger marketing budget and would have put more time and effort into documenting the changes in detail and easing that anxiety. But it is just my opinion and we can both respectfully disagree with this I don't believe Disney is targeting people with disabilities or even a particular person. I do believe that Disney is motivated by profit and it is logical that they will put more effort in whether that is assign more resources or having a larger marketing budget to communicate things better when they stand to make money.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'll post our HM experience next week in this thread.

I was reading down further on the other forum where the CM disclosed the information about not filling in all the space and they stated (bolding is mine)

"It would be "keep moving forward with the line" instead of "keep up with the party in front of you and fill in all the available space"

Not sure how that applies to shows, but attraction lines will get these language changes. How effectively it gets adopted and trained is anyone's guess."

I'm not sure what that will do with the stretching room of HM nor how that would mean extra space is created after the stretching room where you're funneled down into a single file to load the attraction. Also it does make me wonder if they are tweaking the number of guests allowed in the stretching room if it's not fill in all the available space. Let us know if you remember if it's just more keep the line moving as opposed to bunching everyone up in one defined area, it seems that for some the issue is the bunching up in one defined area but you'd still need to keep moving rather than have large chunks of space between parties, at least going off of that person's comment on the other forum.

 

[PrincessV]

Just a gentle PSA because it’s come up in discussion: if opening a metal queue divider to exit yourself or help others exit mid-queue, be very careful while doing so: I managed to slice open my hand on a rusty POTC chain divider doing that recently. Earned me a trip to First Aid, followed by the Celebration Walgreens for a tetanus shot. Maybe a second PSA here to be up to date on your tetanus vaccination before handling any rusty queue chains, lol!

 

[Liquidice]

Yes...because in this case after they pointed out that their party was a small child, they were informed to follow the policy, which is to speak with the attractions cast member at individual rides, about how they can accommodate her unique needs. This CM didn't continue to tell her the child would need to wait and hold their place in line, which is what the other poster kept emphasizing and the part that I found hard to believe.

I will agree that both were likely told something similar - that they could talk to a CM at the entrance and ask for how they could be accommodated using the queue re-entry (and as we have seen, other options as well). My original point was that the video chat CMs are not being trained well enough on the other accommodations and their training is focused on trying to give DAS to less people. The video chat CMs should know what accommodations are available to individuals and be able to speak to them and explain to people how they would work for their unique situation instead of pushing it to the front line CMs.