DEBATE: Disney for Dummies!! One man’s opinion!!

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK, guys and gals. There’s been a lot of talk lately about resorts and how they relate to the Disney experience (Pop Century). The disappointment of rides and areas of the parks (i.e. Dinorama, et al). And even entire parks themselves (DCA, AK). Now, I’m not saying that all the negative talk is true (although I agree with the majority of it). But I’ve laid out, below, what I think is the key to understanding my position on all things Disney. Keep in mind that this is, of course, just one man’s opinion, but I happen to think that it pretty much mirrors Walt’s opinion (through reading about him, his quotes and witnessing the parks he was responsible for building). And as far as I’m concerned, that’s all that matters.

Defining the SHOW:

It’s really simple. All of Disney used to be a SHOW!! That’s it!! Keep this simple concept in mind with every move that they do with the company (especially the parks) and you cannot veer far off the Walt path of magic. Use it as a measuring stick when you judge a ride or attraction or a new resort. Everything they do should be with the SHOW in mind!!

The animation is SHOW. The movies are SHOW. The parks are SHOW. Even the stores are SHOW. Substance matters, of course, but only to make enough money to sustain it. And it doesn’t matter nearly as much as the SHOW! (The purchase of ABC and other non-creative outlets kind of screwed up this concept, but then again, the people in charge really never ‘got it’ in the first place, so their other screw up should come as no surprise at all!)

I can’t stress enough how important that aspect of the entire concept is!! You have to keep it uppermost in your thinking at all times, if you want to think as Walt thought. Remember, he wasn’t a technician, although he liked technical stuff. He wasn’t a businessman, although he was in business. He was a SHOWman!! In SHOW business!! The MOVIE business. Pure and simple!!

And what type of show did Walt want to produce? Again, that’s simple!! And it can be found in any biography about him, over and over again. It can even be found in the “One Man’s Dream” exhibit in the Studios this year. The answer: MOVIES!! Whether it’s a simple cartoon, a full-length animated feature or a live action motion picture, it’s always about the movies. That’s how it all began. That’s what he knew. And that’s what he liked. MOVIES!!!!

In the 1940s he began to think of a way to bring the motion picture experience off the screen and make it a three dimensional, living experience for his audience (not guests but audience, the term hadn’t even been applied yet). Being cutting edge all his life, he was toying with very early and crude (by today’s standards) version of animatronics. He instantly thought of a way of merging this technology with his 3-D movie experience concept. Walla!! Disneyland is born!!!

So what is Disneyland? Again, not too tough, if you know the way Walt’s mind worked. It is nothing more than a living, breathing, 3- dimensional movie experience! And that, my friends, is theme!!! It is not the Poly, exactly. And it’s not Pirates, alone. It is the concept behind those structures and/or rides. That’s why STORY is important. That’s why DETAIL is important. But those two concepts alone, don’t make a building (ride, attraction or even a CM’s costume) “Disney”. It must maintain a MOVIE quality. A movie feel. And remember folks, we’re not talking about an Ed Woods movie experience. NO!!! We’re talking about a full blown, big budget, Hollywood extravaganza!! We’re talking DISNEY!!! Which neatly ties into the last criteria.

There is one last thing to we need to think about before we move into implementing such a unique concept. And that is quality! But quality (at least Disney quality) cannot stand alone. Just as “theme” needs story and/or background and/or detail all tied together in a ‘movie’ frame of reference, quality needs one other factor. Cost. Not cost for the company but cost for the consumer. And the two together equals VALUE which (if you get the theme bit right) is absolute MAGIC!!!!

I think that Walt himself can sum the quality/cost issue up best. Just look at my signature. “Give the people everything you can give them.” Or how about the famous, “Quality will out!!” Or maybe the, “Do it right or don’t do it at all!!” This together form Walt’s entire IDEAL about ‘quality’. (Remember, this is the guy who went bust in his first business, had nothing but $40.00 to his name and yet still bought a first class train ticket!!! He’s the guy that spent enormous amounts of money on a back yard train. He’s the one that insisted, even though he had used all of the company’s and his and his brother’s personal funds, to put a very expensive, real crystal chandelier in a hamburger joint!!!)

Now if you connect all the bits I have outlined in the above paragraphs and they are all done right, you have what I always refer to as the Disney Standard!! That was Disneyland. That was WDW. That was even EPCOT Center.

OK!! So now we’ve somewhat defined what type of SHOW he was offering. It wasn’t a Little Rascals, “Hey! Let’s put on a show, Spanky!!” And it wasn’t an Ed Wood’s movie experience. He was going for his type of film. His way of doing business. A Walt movie. But in 3-D!!!

Producing the SHOW:

Now that we know what we want to produce, how can we insure that everyone is on the same page as far as it’s implementation. That’s the next piece of the “Walt magic puzzle”. And it can be found in Traditions (although you have to be quick, for what once was a three-day seminar has been reduced to a one-day class). Remember the almighty four?

1- Safety
2- Courtesy
3- SHOW
4- Efficiency

And the most important sentence is the one that follows: IN THAT ORDER!!!

So every activity, every building, every ride, let’s face it, every bit of business brought into the company or thought up for the company has got to pass the above test, and most importantly, IN THE RIGHT ORDER! So if it doesn’t endanger someone or being forced into a rude situation then SHOW is the most important thing at the Disney company!! MORE IMPORTANT THAN EFFICIENCY!!! (Hmmm. Vacuum cleaners come to mind!!)

The Disney Standard and Competition

There’s an inordinate amount (in my opinion) of Ei$ner defending based on ‘Business’. It really doesn’t happen much here anymore, but on other sites - WOW (!!) are there “business” defenders!! What does happen here, and I suppose everywhere, is the defense of a ride, resort, or what have you, on the basis of “MARKET”. Capturing a ‘segment’ of the market. This can be broken down two ways. Age discriminating rides and/or attractions. And simple class distinction based on economics. I’ll leave the age thing alone for the time being with the thought that Walt also wanted to produce a place where the entire family can have fun together. It is therefore imperative that the easy answer of thrill rides/kiddie rides be avoided as much as possible as the very concept, for the most part, and taken in moderation, flies in the face of the Disney ideal.

Now, for the economic, social, class type thing. Market segments, if you will, and what Disney should do with them. The short answer is nothing. That’s right. NOTHING!!! I suppose there’s a niche group here or there that should sought. And sometimes different income levels can be accommodated, by in the long run no action should take place to capture a new or different market segment UNLESS you can do so without violating the Tradition’s Holy 4! Now I have to stress that this is just my opinion, but in my opinion, the moment the concept was brought up for the Caribbean Beach Resort, someone at that meeting should have asked 4 little questions.

1- Will we have to compromise “SAFETY” if we build it?
Hmmmm. NO!!

2- Will we have to compromise “COURTESY” if we build it?
Hmmmm. Again – NO!!!

3- Will we have to compromise “SHOW” if we build it?
Hmmmm. Well… Gee… We might have to… I mean… well, let’s face it… the Movie theming thing is gonna be a little thin, but maybe we can squeak by. And you’ll be able to see the parking lot from almost every room. And there’ll be no tableside, full service dining. And the rooms are noticeably smaller. And there’s not a corridor in sight!! And… and… and… (the list of SHOW compromises (small as they may have started at the time) goes on and on).

And someone, who “GOT IT”, would have (and should have) said, “I think we need to re-think the concept, boys! It doesn’t wash with the Traditions thing at all.” And the meeting would have broken up and we would have never started down that slippery slope that eventually and inevitably lead to Pop Century. But instead it was more of a, “How much can we get away with?” attitude that has let “Giant Icons” painted with primary colors, shorter hours with e-ticket profits, diesel belching buses and Dinorama slowly creep their way into “One Man’s Dream”.




OK!! Don't make it a lonely thread.

TALK TO ME!!!!!

 

[raidermatt]

I'm sorry, Baron. Did you say something? Do you mind repeating that?






Need to "digest" for awhile...

 

[Bob O]

From reading your well thought out post i cant think of anything i diagree with. But the problem is the current management doesnt follow Walts teachings/beliefs at all. If they were followed we wouldnt have the system with the resorts where it is premium/moderate/value with the less money paid the less quality invested. I have stayed at the Poly twice and i found the place to be great with the hotel having everything you would expect from disney. Now i havent stayed at a moderate/value but from the posts i have seen and the amenties offered the class/economic deographics are in full display. And i think when it comes to the 2 latest parks ie-MGM/AK they also didnt follow the philsophy of MK/Epcot or they both would have been built as full day parks from the get go rather than promises of doing so a a later date which would voilate the Walts quotes you noted.
And with the company expanding into baseball/hockey teams and Tv they also went from away from Walts vision and branched out into other business's that dont relate to what the core of the business was under Walts leadership.

 

[Miss Park Avenue]

That was a very good read. I agree that this formula is what drew so many to Disney in the first place. Two things come to my mind.

1. Buses: I have written in some other debate about if EE was responsible for declining occupancy in Disney resorts (if that was the case) and I got on my soapbox and wrote how wonderful transportation USED to be. I'll spare you the novel but the gist was that people flocked to Disney resorts back in the early 80's not for EE or little trinkets given to us but because just getting around was an enjoyable experience in itself. And didn't Walt build the monorail and WEDway to show us clean mass transportation in a fun way. People today stilll pay the extra $$ for a monorail resort! I say, USE his ideas in other areas in the place. Someone on here had the idea to put a WEDway in Downtown Disney. If it had three stops just think of the congestion it would save there if all resort busses only had to go to one end of DD instead of three. And when we stayed there in the early 80's we had to show resort ID to use the monorail. boat transportation, and busses (I know we can't get rid of all the busses). But talk about incentive for staying onsite! If the big cheeses would hire a mass transit expert to redo the monorail system and add some WEDways and made getting around the joint more enjoyable instead of standing at a bus stop people would be clamoring for a Disney room again.

(BTW, people can (and do) reserve a campsight for a night to get things like EE and e-nights, but I'm getting off subject)

2. This is WALT DISNEY WORLD and this is his baby. It is filled with his ideas and dreams for a better world and sad to say he has been gone for quite a while. It went to being one man's dream to being a million other people's stock option (if that is the correct term, I'm not familiar with investment terms). The top brass don't look at WDW as some expression of themselves. They are not looking to put on a show, they don't "get it". They are looking for some good ink on their resumes.

"Look at me, I was vp of such and such of Walt Disney World.
I did this and this and this.
Everyone knows what a wildly successful place WDW is.
I made little kids happy all over the world.
Hire me and I will do the same for you!"

The only hope I can see is if his family take a stand and not let it turn into some run of the mill amusement park. Your name is all you've got. You want to work hard to preserve the reputation of your family's name (if it's a good one). If they can't fight for Walt's vision, I don't know who could.

 

[mktiggerman]

Originally posted by Bob O
But the problem is the current management doesnt follow Walts teachings/beliefs at all.

not at all.. they follow the almighty dollar and what it tells them to do (and to a lesser extent, the WDW PR department).

I just think this problem is also rooted in Disney's asinine promotion policy. Promotions at WDW are based primarily on attendance (and education to a lesser degree). So, for example, an absolute idiot who has never called in would be preferred for a promotion over a natural born leader that was sick a day or 2.

 

[hopemax]

I just think this problem is also rooted in Disney's asinine promotion policy.

Yep, and I get the feeling from the way the DL execs answer the "tell us about your background, and how you came to work for Disney?" question...

it is preferrable to hire someone with no knowledge of the "Disney way" over someone who started out as a ride operator and worked their way up or was big into Disney as a kid. The belief is that the person who grew up with Disney wouldn't bring the "fresh" ideas which would translate into growth.

That's fine to a point, but like everything else: there needs to be balance. Fans shouldn't have to explain who the "Fab 5" are and who they aren't, to the DL merchandising people. Nor should the fans have to explain why it is absolutely ridiculous for DL to not have anything planned for Walt's 100th birthday if WDW is going to be celebrating it too. Both of these I know are things that happened. The more you know your own product, the easier it is to sell it.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Sheesh! Speaking of the Little Rascals, this won't be the 'He man woman haters club', but the Car #3 'S/he person Disney haters club' . This has WDW discontent lovefest written all over it .

As Arnold would say - I'll be back - when I have some time. Thanks for the well thought out and provocative post sir Baron.

 

[Bob O]

mktiggermann-Sad to hear about the promotion policy and im sure that affects the quality of managment that will impact your job greatly.
Now a company cant turn a blind eye towards profit but if they would be more concerned about quality like they were in the past i believe the profit would take care of itself. They are still raking in millions over movies produced in Walts era, but since katzenberg left do you believe they have done much to refill the vault so the leaders in the future will have anything to mine like eisner had?? Or will the next head of the company be left with a bare vault and the need to refill it??

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

This has WDW discontent lovefest written all over it

Boy. That's funny. I was feeling the exact opposite when I wrote it.

 

[WDWHound]

Great post Baron. My only exception to it would be with CBR. I think they did a fairly good job with the theming there. They made only one mistake, the lack of a good sit down restaurant. Yes, you can see the parking lot from some of the rooms, but that is true of the poly, contemp, boardwalk, heck its true for nearly every resort on property. Its a very hard problem to avoid. All in all, I find the CBR very imersive. But I'm just picking nits here, for the most part, I agree with what you are saying about WDW in general.

Show should be king. On of the biggest problems I have with the new Pop Century is that it can be seen from the CBR. Walt would have had a bird. The environment from one show should never be allowed into cross with the environment of another, It completely destroys the illusion. Disney used to go to great efforts to prvent this sort of thing. Now they don't seem to worry about it anymore.

I am very worried about Dinrama because of its theme. What kind of show is a roadside carnival. Thats an experience we can all have at home. Why would I want to go to WDW for that when something very much like sets up in the parking lot of our local mall twice a year? Its almost as dumb an idea as putting a park themed to California in California.

The movies are magical experinces that create worlds that don't really exist, but that we love to spend time in. That is what the parks should be. They should be worlds we can only experience through the magic of Disney. Nothing ordinary or good enough. They should be detailed, magical experiences that wisk you away to another place, another time, another world.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Great post Baron. My only exception to it would be with CBR. I think they did a fairly good job with the theming there.

The reason I attacked it specifically is because it is the only moderate I have stayed in. And while it is very, very nice, to me, it isn’t quite Disney. More like a Disney wannabe. I don’t know if that makes sense to a great many people, but I really have a mind set, when it comes to Disney, very similar to the designers of the original WDW. I LOVED what they built and I LOVED Marvin Davis's original master plan. I was therefore a little disappointed when they built the Caribbean instead of one of the MK proposals.

To me the theme seemed a little thin and the ‘quality’ was slightly (only slightly! mind you) less than the Contemporary or the Poly. Now I realize that there had to be differences in order to justify the price, but to me it was a little too much and more importantly, fundamentally I didn’t understand why there had to be a difference. Either a place was Disney or it wasn’t. Plain and simple. Cut and dried. They didn’t build a second ride that was just a little bit dumbed down for the people who couldn’t afford the normal e-ticket. They didn’t build a Disneyland “B” for the people who couldn’t afford the real one. I didn’t “get it”! A Disney resort was a Disney resort. It was either built with the same standards and pricing as the Poly or it was no longer a Disney Resort. To me it was simple. Mainly because I thought they did “Get It”! And I trusted them at the time to carry on Walt’s traditions, pricing and philosophy. HA!! What a sap I was!!!!

And when I read further about it, how Ei$ner & crew took the old regime to task because of their pricing ideology, I knew we were on the road to what I now refer to as the caste system of resorts. And it is this very basic philosophical change that paved the way for “Walt’s” Disney to be replaced by Dinsey®. Now, AV may be able to give you an example in the corporate history that pre-dates mine, but for me, my first day in the Caribbean was a defining moment!! My second (as if anyone was interested) was my first trip to the Floridian, shortly afterwards and the comparisons I drew!!! It is my humble opinion that those two resorts played a critical role in diluting the Disney Standard.

I am very worried about Dinrama because of its theme. What kind of show is a roadside carnival. That’s an experience we can all have at home.

Mr. Hound!! The answer’s simple!! They didn’t get it when the implemented the differing resorts (tearing down the Disney Standard in the process) and they still don’t get it when they built Dinorama! It really is that simple! Why would you think they’d change? The head mouse is still the head mouse! Maybe next year someone will “get it”!! I don’t think it could be much worse.

 

[manning]

Landbaron, what's your view on DVC?

 

[WEDWAY100]

Dear Mr. Landbaron,

This is my first post on these boards, although I have posted actively on other Disney boards, sometimes in defense of Eisner (without the $). I have 30+ years of DL/WDW experience under my belt as well, and I have a slightly different take on it than you do. One thing that I have learned from reading and posting on other boards is that while we all love Disney, we love different things about Disney. After reading your post, I think that you and I share many of the same sentiments. So then why would I defend Esiner? Here goes:

Let's ask the question, "Why does WDW exist?". I think that answer has changed over the years. I think that DL came into existence for exactly those reasons you stated, and that Walt took pride in his accomplishments. However, I contend that the reason for WDW's existence has changed dramatically. It now exists to make money. Period. If it did not make money, it would close. In fact, if it does not return a reasonable profit margin, it would eventually have to close. This actually makes me sad, because the pride, creativity and workmanship that was displayed by Walt and his subordinates is slowly being eroded, in favor of profits.

Given the above, here's my take on Eisner. I think that he and Frank Wells made a great team, and that in the first 10 years, dramatically improved what the company had to offer. But two things had a dramatic impact on Eisner. The first was the financial disaster called EuroDisney. After reading his biography, I am convinced that he was ready to close the place in order to salvage what financial position he could. In EuroDisney, cost overruns were rampant, and the resulting theme park is beautiful, but he was rewarded with the French throwing tomatoes at him and by financial ruin.

The second thing that I think has impacted him negatively was the death of Frank Wells. I think he depended on Wells to help with so many of the decisions, both creative and business. He has yet to find a successor that can fill Frank's shoes.

Do I agree with the recent decisions that are being made? Absolutely not. I am completely insulted by Paradise Pier in DCA. In contrast to DisneySea, which shows what can be done, this area is a poor attempt to rehash old amusement park rides. There is absolutely nothing new in that area, and I refuse to give them money to see their half hearted attempt at an entire land of a brand new theme park. It's almost as if the decision makers there had contempt for their audience.

My last point that I want to make is that Disney is currenly a conglomerate, and while that does put a burden on the parks and resorts division (which is currently carrying the profit burden of other divisions), it is a necessary evil to preserve the autonomy of Disney. If they hadn't bought ABC and expanded into new businesses, I fear that the archway on world drive might say, "Welcome to Walt Disney World, a division of AOL/Time Warner.". If Disney was not a conglomerate, it is my opinion that they would have been bought by now, and would no longer be in control of their own destiny. At least what Eisner has set up is a company that can survive, on its own, after he leaves.

One question I have if he is fired is who would replace him. I don't know much about these types of people, but I think that good ones are very hard to come by. I think Disney could do a lot worse.

I just didn't want you to be lonely on this post...

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

This is my first post on these boards

WOW!!!! You gotta like this guy right from the start! First post and it’s a beaut!!

although I have posted actively on other Disney boards, sometimes in defense of Eisner (without the $).

You should try it sometime. It’s a lot of fun!! And Pre$$ler is even more fun!! But seriously folks…

Let's ask the question, "Why does WDW exist?".

Awe, that’s easy. To make money. Can you give me a hard one?

However, I contend that the reason for WDW's existence has changed dramatically. It now exists to make money. Period.

But that’s the reason it existed in the first place! I thought we already talked about that. I think the question you are really asking is, “Why was WDW built and operated the way it was?” Right?

So the reason it exists is to make money. Same today as “back in the day”. Walt needed a steady income to bridge the financial ruin that he experienced between projects. The fundamental difference is the way the company makes that money. Period!

In fact, if it does not return a reasonable profit margin, it would eventually have to close.

I couldn’t agree with you more. In fact, Walt himself came dangerously close to closing (or at least not meeting payroll) a couple times very early on. Maintaining a reasonable profit is indeed imperative. Hey so far we agree on almost everything!!!

This actually makes me sad, because the pride, creativity and workmanship that was displayed by Walt and his subordinates is slowly being eroded, in favor of profits.

I agree!!! It makes me sad too. See:

But seriously, you’re blaming profits as the culprit in this disaster. You’ve got it wrong, my friend. It is short term thinking and excessive greed along with a great amount of knuckleheadedness (Ei$ner’s propensity to be terribly inept) that has led to the stock trading today at $14 something a share! I contend that if he had kept the business model of Walt as a basic and fundamental philosophy, he could have made me happy (and by that I mean kept to the Walt ideal) AND made GOBS of money!!! Perhaps you disagree with that. If not, there’s not much more to discuss. If so, why?

Given the above, here's my take on Eisner. I think that he and Frank Wells made a great team, and that in the first 10 years, dramatically improved what the company had to offer.

Well, if you know me at all, you know I despise personal preference lists, but I really gotta ask: Such as? I mean, how did they “dramatically improve” anything!?!? (Now, I’m giving you a lot of room for me to concede things. Animation comes to mind and there may be others. But it ain’t much and I don’t think it comes anywhere close to “Dramatically”.)

The first was the financial disaster called EuroDisney. After reading his biography, I am convinced that he was ready to close the place in order to salvage what financial position he could. In EuroDisney, cost overruns were rampant, and the resulting theme park is beautiful, but he was rewarded with the French throwing tomatoes at him and by financial ruin.

I tell you, I have a slightly different take on that fiasco. AV posted a beauty about that one!!! AV – How about a little insight through a rerun (TV lingo for a Hollywood type guy!!). You know, about how the superego wanted more resorts. I can’t remember the details, but I remember the warm and fuzzy I felt being vindicated.

The second thing that I think has impacted him negatively was the death of Frank Wells. I think he depended on Wells to help with so many of the decisions, both creative and business. He has yet to find a successor that can fill Frank's shoes.

BECAUSE HE REFUSES TO ACCEPT ANYONE THAT DOESN’T SAY “YES”!!!

It's almost as if the decision makers there had contempt for their audience.

WOW!! You make it tough!! There were so many gems in that paragraph I could have done the whole thing, one by one!!! I guess I’ll have to let this represent the lot.

So!! DCA insults you? A poor attempt to rehash… And DisneySea is the way to go? Not much to disagree with here. I have to hand it to you. I like the way you put your words together. Especially in a paragraph like that one. And I will agree with the whole thing, with one minor correction. Take the “It's almost as if” out!! “The decision makers there had contempt for their audience.”

Wait!! After all that!! That wonderfully worded paragraph. You still think the current regime is the one to head Disney? You really think they “get it”? Gee. After reading half of your stuff I think you convince border line Disney-nuts that EI$ner must go after all!! How can you not see that yourself!

If they hadn't bought ABC and expanded into new businesses, I fear that the archway on world drive might say, "Welcome to Walt Disney World, a division of AOL/Time Warner."

And the down side to that would be…?

If Disney was not a conglomerate, it is my opinion that they would have been bought by now, and would no longer be in control of their own destiny.

THEY AREN’T!!! You said so yourself!!! The people in charge don’t “GET IT”!! I think you said, “It's almost as if the decision makers there had contempt for their audience.” But it means the same thing!! You use a sentence, I say they don’t “Get It”!! But it boils down to the same thing. “DISNEY”, the Disney we all know and love is NOT in charge of it’s own destiny. Ei$ner is. And that just two completely different things!!

At least what Eisner has set up is a company that can survive, on its own, after he leaves.

Tell me. Does the $14 something stock price tell you that or is it something else? Cause quite frankly, I don’t see it!!

One question I have if he is fired is who would replace him.

I’ve got my resume at the ready. At least I “GET IT”!! And you don’t sound so bad yourself!! Throw your hat in the ring!!

I’m being a little flip, I know. But I am serious at the same Time!! ANYONE could do as good a job. And very few could do worse!!

I don't know much about these types of people, but I think that good ones are very hard to come by. I think Disney could do a lot worse.

I totally disagree. As I said above, a mere guest who GET’S IT, would do worlds better that an inept, egotist.

I just didn't want you to be lonely on this post...

For that I am truly grateful!! I love talking and you’ve made me think more than I have in a long time around here!! THANKS!!!

 

[MikePezz]

This has WDW discontent lovefest written all over it

Baron and others (sometimes myself included, though never as detailed or as eloquently) point out the shortcomings or even flat out failures of recent developments at WDW because it pains us to see something we love treated with such disrepect. It is a sad state of affairs when the customers have a better understanding of the brand philosphy than the company 'leadership' (and I use the term loosely).

 

[DisneyKidds]

WEDWAY - a well Disney educated contemporary for the good Baron to disagree with . Welcome aboard and I hope we will see more of your posts on this little corner of the net .

I contend that if he had kept the business model of Walt as a basic and fundamental philosophy, he could have made me happy (and by that I mean kept to the Walt ideal) AND made GOBS of money!!! Perhaps you disagree with that. If not, there’s not much more to discuss.

But lets discuss this Baron. If Walt were alive today would he have 'compromised' any of his 'standards' in running his beloved WDW. I know your knee jerk answer - but hold back the ponies and think. At least admit that not even you can really answer that question. The world is not a vacuum my friend, and what worked for Walt in 1972 he might not have found worked for him in 1992. I'm not saying it wouldn't have - but I can't just assume it would have.

Baron and others (sometimes myself included, though never as detailed or as eloquently) point out the shortcomings or even flat out failures of recent developments at WDW because it pains us to see something we love treated with such disrepect.

I know that Mike - I was just playing with my good friend Baron .

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. Manning. I did not forget or ignore. I have truly been thinking. It got so that the question bothered me soooo much that I asked all my kids, my brother, my friends and my parents. We all came up with the same answer.

Landbaron, what's your view on DVC?

We like it just fine. No complaints and pure MAGIC!!!!

Thanks for asking!

 

[airlarry!]

Paging Dr. Landbaron:

I re-read one of your classic posts where you argued that we of the not-to-be-named carpool gang where like Disney Doctors looking at a patient that on the surface seemed healthy but in reality had systems that were failing on the inside.

If we look at your summarization of The Disney Way (with apologies to Lasorda et al), and we listen to the rumblings on The Street, and we read the fly-on-the-boardroom-wall hints from M. AV, doesn't it look to you like there are people right now preparing the patient for pre-op?

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

Originally posted by WEDWAY100
...One question I have if he is fired is who would replace him...

My simple answer is Steven Jobs - head man at Apple and Pixar. He has a creative, maniacal genius about him (although in the last decade he has toned down and mixed a good dose of 'business-sense' into the equation) that I think would be perfect for Disney. I know... far-fetched and ludicrous. But I do think he could do some real good for Disney if he had a decent yin-yang support team to back him up.

 

[Sarangel]

I'm sorry, but this one has always bothered me:

This is WALT DISNEY WORLD and this is his baby. It is filled with his ideas and dreams for a better world and sad to say he has been gone for quite a while. It went to being one man's dream to being a million other people's stock option (if that is the correct term, I'm not familiar with investment terms).

Walt Disney World is a memorial to Walt from his brother Roy. Walt died before more than the most preliminary drawings were done. Yes, it incorporates many of his ideas & was built by craftsmen who understood his philosophy, but Walt had very little to do with 'the Florida Project.'

That being said, I think that our own Landbaron (among others) has stated the case for what is wrong with Disney®. This is a point that we often see on this board, that the quality and craftsmanship has gone out of what Disney does. It is our natural tendency to blame the top brass, i.e. Eisner. And it may, very well, be his fault.

I, personally, don't have any problems with hotels like the CBR (although I'm holding my vote re: All Stars and PC). Different people want different things from their lodging. I really liked CBR, but it was my first visit to WDW & I confess I didn't want or need an immersive resort, since I was *way* too pooped at the end of the day to do anything but collapse into bed. I found it entirely pleasant in the morning to wake up, cross the island, feed the Ibis and catch a light breakfast before heading out to the parks again. It felt to me as though I was commuting from a carribean island.

Sarangel