Deep dive into Fastpass/Genie+ on Defunctland

[Figment of Speech]

I loved this video. I watched it in several pieces, mostly while doing dishes, haha.

It was informative and entertaining, and the analysis sounds really spot-on. And I'm not surprised that they got assistance with numbers from Touring Plans (as is mentioned in the end credits, if you make it that far — and you should!).

I think anyone who participates in Genie+ critiques and discussions should check it out, because if you don't, you'll be at a disadvantage in the conversation to the people who did watch it.

 

[Jrb1979]

I watched it like I do all his videos. My take away from it all is that Disney has the purpose of the skip the line system all wrong. They aren't meant to control crowds. Every other park uses to not just generate money but to give those who pay a better time.

 

[TommyJK]

This is a fabulous video! As a numbers nerd, I loved the simulations they did and the breakdown/analysis of those simulations.

To me the most salient point on FP+ is at the 1:11 mark after they analyze the data in their simulations. I've made the vary same arguments many times on this board in the past as to why FP+ was a bad system overall. Their simulations overwhelmingly support the argument. The first bold section is almost verbatim the response I would always get here when I made the argument. The second bolded part is precisely why I've felt it needed to be changed significantly, because it benefitted too few people disproportionately.

But in practice, from a guest perspective, the system benefits those that use the system and know how to use it well, while those that don't use it or don't know how to use it well have it much worse than they did before.....If you were here (very small % of guests on the right side of the graph), booking 60 days in advance, and then riding 8 or more attractions per day, I imagine that you enjoyed FastPass+. If you were here (very large % of guests on the left side of the graph), not using the system, facing astronomical standy wait times and thus only experiencing between 0 and 2 attraction per day, you probably didn't like FP+

Those using FP+ to their advantage believed it was those people's fault for not doing their research and using the system that was available to everyone, despite that system
requiring a certain amount of time, energy, technological literacy, English proficiency, and money for on-site hotels. But even if you benefited and loved FP, the truth is that it only worked so well for these (small number) of people, becasue it worked so poorly for the other (large amount) of people

 

[Jafar30]

Incredible video, though the same can be said of nearly all Defunctland videos

 

[kmrobins03]

Thanks for sharing. This video is very informative

 

[gharter]

I think the biggest surprise was for the average guest, FP and FP+ didn't have much impact on the number of rides they rode. For those who knew how to use the system, it made a big difference, which I expected.

 

[usablefiber]

I haven’t watched this yet but am i right in assuming that michael eisner jokes and prods will be featured at some point?

 

[shaymin2348]

I haven’t watched this yet but am i right in assuming that michael eisner jokes and prods will be featured at some point?

actually, i don't remember there being too many mentions of Eisner in this one.

 

[1lilspark]

actually, i don't remember there being too many mentions of Eisner in this one.

There was an Eisner mention at the 10 min mark give or take

 

[ironband74]

I might need a "friends with the monster" shirt.

 

[1lilspark]

I might need a "friends with the monster" shirt.

Same…
I was close to preordering the I survived the triangle shirt

 

[Winnesota]

This is a fabulous video! As a numbers nerd, I loved the simulations they did and the breakdown/analysis of those simulations.

To me the most salient point on FP+ is at the 1:11 mark after they analyze the data in their simulations. I've made the vary same arguments many times on this board in the past as to why FP+ was a bad system overall. Their simulations overwhelmingly support the argument. The first bold section is almost verbatim the response I would always get here when I made the argument. The second bolded part is precisely why I've felt it needed to be changed significantly, because it benefitted too few people disproportionately.

I completely agree. For the people on this board and other online Disney forums, they were friends of the monster and couldn't care less that the vast majority of people's park experiences had to suffer for them to have the great experiences that they did. I would have friends go to Disney and come back saying they'd rather go to the crappy local Cedar Fair park than go to Disney because the lines were just outrageous and they didn't have time to do anything. Yes, if you knew the system that could be avoided, but the majority of people at the parks on any given day didn't know how to maximize the system because the people that did would overwhelm it. That's why I am more of a fan of genie than most. I think people coming on their once-in-a-lifetime trip or once-every-five-years-trip who don't know the system as well should be able to have some advantages over the person who comes every other month or the local AP who can just come back and ride Splash mountain next week if the line is too long. To those people the $15 isn't worth it because they can always do it next time when the line might be shorter, but to the once-in-a-lifetime guest being able to skip long lines for extremely popular rides can be priceless.

 

[T-Daddy]

Great video. I can't believe it didn't get boring at that length, but I was fully engaged for the whole thing.

Maybe because I'm a friend of the monster, but it always seems counter-intuitive to me to value the occasional or once in a lifetime customer over the devoted, repeat, fanatic customer. In most business models, that would be backwards.

 

[shawthorne44]

Great video. I can't believe it didn't get boring at that length, but I was fully engaged for the whole thing.

Maybe because I'm a friend of the monster, but it always seems counter-intuitive to me to value the occasional or once in a lifetime customer over the devoted, repeat, fanatic customer. In most business models, that would be backwards.

Unlike at a restaurant, for example, the devoted, repeat customer spends considerably less per visit to Disney. The occasional or once-in-a-lifetime won't have an AP and they will try to cram as much into the trip as they can. That means doing things like eating in-park to avoid having to leave. Probably buying tours, maybe club-level back when that allowed you to buy extra FPP.

 

[TommyJK]

Great video. I can't believe it didn't get boring at that length, but I was fully engaged for the whole thing.

Maybe because I'm a friend of the monster, but it always seems counter-intuitive to me to value the occasional or once in a lifetime customer over the devoted, repeat, fanatic customer. In most business models, that would be backwards.

I don't find it counter-intuitive. (Edit) If you're giving a poor experience to a new customer, espeically when they've spent a ton of money, you will likley lose them forever.

Yes you want to treat your most loyal customers favourably, but not at the heavy detriment of new customers that you're also looking to make into long-term loyal customers.

 

[Jrb1979]

I completely agree. For the people on this board and other online Disney forums, they were friends of the monster and couldn't care less that the vast majority of people's park experiences had to suffer for them to have the great experiences that they did. I would have friends go to Disney and come back saying they'd rather go to the crappy local Cedar Fair park than go to Disney because the lines were just outrageous and they didn't have time to do anything. Yes, if you knew the system that could be avoided, but the majority of people at the parks on any given day didn't know how to maximize the system because the people that did would overwhelm it. That's why I am more of a fan of genie than most. I think people coming on their once-in-a-lifetime trip or once-every-five-years-trip who don't know the system as well should be able to have some advantages over the person who comes every other month or the local AP who can just come back and ride Splash mountain next week if the line is too long. To those people the $15 isn't worth it because they can always do it next time when the line might be shorter, but to the once-in-a-lifetime guest being able to skip long lines for extremely popular rides can be priceless.

Sorry for the angry face. I just hate when people put down other parks. I would take Cedar Fair's skip the line system any day over the crap that Disney has put out.

 

[Winnesota]

Sorry for the angry face. I just hate when people put down other parks. I would take Cedar Fair's skip the line system any day over the crap that Disney has put out.

I love parks like Cedar Point, but the closest park to me is Valleyfair in MN and that is just night and day from somewhere like Cedar Point.

 

[Rileygirl]

Fascinating! Thank you for posting

 

[kathy884]

Thank you OP for sharing this!!! I really enjoyed watching this. As someone who has visited the parks every other year since 1971, usually just doing two Disney parks per visit, I've been that guest who wants to maximize the attractions per day. I've tried to learn as much about the line system as I could for each of these trips. I've also been using touring plans (subscribing for every trip or before the online plans getting the book) since 1989 which really helped me a lot.

The new system certainly sounds like it was put together for a committee with lots of compromises to keep people with varying viewpoints happy (or maybe - based on these boards making no one really happy).

I have relatives and friends who bought expensive one day tickets, went mid morning with no planning or knowledge at all, and were super disappointed (maybe did two attractions) and left with disgust. I really felt bad for them. They couldn't even fathom how I could possibly do two Disney parks regularly every other year and have a good time. Touringplan.com has been key to me for maximizing my WDW park experiences. But with Disney attendance increasing and me staying offsite, for sure, some lines are just way too long, and I skip certain attractions that I could never get a fastpass for as an offsite visitor. At popular times, parks are quite crowded in general diminishing the experience. This isn't just true at theme parks, but it is true at National Parks and other popular vacation destinations. There are just more people in the world than ever before and more people who can afford to travel than in past decades. It's just a fact.

Our group will be going in March primarily to do Epcot Flower and Garden (something we have always wanted to do and have never done) and some in our party will be doing the Magic Kingdom too. I think this will probably be my last spring break visit to Orlando (I love the weather then, but it's just too popular a time now). The Yogi Bara quote will be me "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." I'm trying to look at less popular vacation destinations in general these days for week long vacations, and for short long weekend trips am doing more visiting of relatives and simple things vs. going to popular tourist places and dealing with crowded tourist attractions more and more. It's a different world and WDW as popular a place as it is, is certainly a place where this is super apparent to me. I would certainly not recommend WDW for people like DH who don't like crowds, advance planning, and detailed scheduling (When I go to Orlando I go with other family or extended family members who are Disney diehards (in love with the parks), and DH stays home lol.)

 

[Grasshopper2016]

I think people coming on their once-in-a-lifetime trip or once-every-five-years-trip who don't know the system as well should be able to have some advantages over the person who comes every other month or the local AP who can just come back and ride Splash mountain next week if the line is too long. To those people the $15 isn't worth it because they can always do it next time when the line might be shorter, but to the once-in-a-lifetime guest being able to skip long lines for extremely popular rides can be priceless.

I get what you’re saying. And, in theory, that is what Genie+ is intended to accomplish. But in practice, Genie+ seems to be a failure when measured against this goal. Will the first-time visitor be knowledgeable, organized, and quick enough to snag a SDD Genie+ LL at precisely 7:00 a.m.? And even if they are, their return time is likely to be for late afternoon or evening. Will they be savvy enough to pull a second LL at precisely 11:00 (even though the app doesn’t tell you when you’re next eligible)? Etc.

There are threads on these boards hundreds of pages long in which even obsessive, seasoned Disney veterans are hopelessly confused about how Genie+ works. Is the kind of visitor who never bothered to learn about Fastpass+ going to do any better with Genie+?

And even if they do, the bottom line is that they, just like the rest of us, won’t be able to skip more than a couple of lines on highly desired rides on crowded days—despite Disney’s marketing making them think that they could use Genie+ once on each ride in the park.

The Defunctland video does a great job of explaining the problem with Fastpass+ and it’s predecessors. I’m not convinced that Genie+ solves that problem at all, or accomplishes any goal other than revenue generation.