Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[beer dave]

Getting back to the gondola discussion, according to CNN, the construction cost of a gondola system is between $3M - $12M per mile. Plugging in a number of $6 million per mile, the new WDW system is costing at about $21 million (based on 3.5 miles). How much cheaper would it be to add a few buses! This is truly an investment in the future of WDW transportation. BTW, the monorail in Vegas (which is the same type as WDW), cost $150M per mile to build in 2004. It's no wonder that Disney picked the gondola over the monorail. This gondola system is the first major transportation "system" WDW has implemented since 1982 when the monorail was extended to EPCOT (correct me if I am wrong about that). Questions for consideration - (1) why not just add buses? My guess is that Disney looked into the future and found that without non-roadway transportation systems, they would need to upgrade the roads and streets which would cost even more than a new "mass transit" system. I also think that everyone believes that are too many WDW buses on the road already. (2) How will it be paid for? Since there are no "ticket costs" to ride any of the WDW transportation, the resorts and the parks all contribute to the costs of all transportation systems at the WDW Resort. As a DVC member, part of my dues go toward "transportation". I was told by DVC that the dues for each DVC resort membership go toward the mode of transportation serving that resort. That means the new Riviera Resort will be a major contributor. It will be interesting to see what the cost of the DVC dues are when they are released. Of course, the cost will be amortized over time but consider that none of the previous DVC resorts had a new "transportation system" that was provided for it. Having said that, Disney still has to provide bus transportation to these "gondola resorts", right? There will be people who don't want to go on the gondola or are going somewhere else. That means that the gondola didn't eliminate the bus transportation for these resorts, it only reduced them. That is quite an concept. My last point is that the cost for the gondola system is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money that Disney is investing in the infrastructure and park improvements that have been announced in the last couple years. People complain about the cost of hotels "on property" but I don't think they realize what it costs for everything needed to operate the WDW resort.

My only adjustment to this would be that a portion of the construction costs of the gondola system would probably be included in the buy in cost of the Riviera-- not in the dues-- however, a portion of the maintenance and operational cost of the gondolas will be in the dues--

Additional buses verses gondolas would be cheaper start up cost, but in the long run the operational and maintenance costs of the buses will greatly outweigh the gondolas.

 

[jade1]

As you said, they knew that a stand alone DVC resort needed a way to get folks to the parks NOT IN BUSES.

Yea up to 20 minutes for a bus.

It appears that leaving your room at Riviera (some rooms closer than others) is a very short walk to the constantly moving Gondola.

Getting to EPCOT will likely be faster than from BWV.

Wonder how long the actual Gondola ride will take.

 

[dina444444]

Yea up to 20 minutes for a bus.

It appears that leaving your room at Riviera (some rooms closer than others) is a very short walk to the constantly moving Gondola.

Getting to EPCOT will likely be faster than from BWV.

Wonder how long the actual Gondola ride will take.

If it’s moving at 35 mph my guess is each leg will be between a 4 - 7 min ride give or take with the CBR to Epcot being the longest since the gondola will slow to load at Riviera.

 

[rteetz]

If it’s moving at 35 mph my guess is each leg will be between a 4 - 7 min ride give or take with the CBR to Epcot being the longest since the gondola will slow to load at Riviera.

And slow through the boardwalk turn probably.

 

[Doberge]

That means the new Riviera Resort will be a major contributor. It will be interesting to see what the cost of the DVC dues are when they are released. Of course, the cost will be amortized over time but consider that none of the previous DVC resorts had a new "transportation system" that was provided for it. Having said that, Disney still has to provide bus transportation to these "gondola resorts", right? There will be people who don't want to go on the gondola or are going somewhere else. That means that the gondola didn't eliminate the bus transportation for these resorts, it only reduced them.

The gondola system appears like it will be cheaper to maintain than the monorail. Also, I dont see them running buses to/from resorts connected to gondola parks. Just like Epcot resorts and Epcot, monorail resorts and MK, thw expectation is that people walk or use the boats or monorail. I don't seethem providing buses just because people don't want to ride the gondola.

I'm expecting to see Riviera's transportation costs come in cheaper than monorail resort transportation costs.

 

[jade1]

If it’s moving at 35 mph my guess is each leg will be between a 4 - 7 min ride give or take with the CBR to Epcot being the longest since the gondola will slow to load at Riviera.

Thanks, yea that's pretty quick really.

A walk from a BWV room can be a half mile (about a 15 min walk) and all are over 1/3 mile. If a boat happens to be sitting there its quicker, but that's luck of the draw.

The Rivera guests will get on and go directly to EPCOT with no wait, then maybe slow a bit at the BW turn at most.

It's nice knowing if you have an EPCOT WS ADR when to leave your room. Many/most resorts I would give an hour to be safe. Partly because of the walk through EPCOT, but mostly a possible 20 min wait just to get on a bus.

 

[Q-man]

Getting back to the gondola discussion, according to CNN, the construction cost of a gondola system is between $3M - $12M per mile. Plugging in a number of $6 million per mile, the new WDW system is costing at about $21 million (based on 3.5 miles). How much cheaper would it be to add a few buses! This is truly an investment in the future of WDW transportation. BTW, the monorail in Vegas (which is the same type as WDW), cost $150M per mile to build in 2004. It's no wonder that Disney picked the gondola over the monorail. This gondola system is the first major transportation "system" WDW has implemented since 1982 when the monorail was extended to EPCOT (correct me if I am wrong about that). Questions for consideration - (1) why not just add buses? My guess is that Disney looked into the future and found that without non-roadway transportation systems, they would need to upgrade the roads and streets which would cost even more than a new "mass transit" system. I also think that everyone believes that are too many WDW buses on the road already. (2) How will it be paid for? Since there are no "ticket costs" to ride any of the WDW transportation, the resorts and the parks all contribute to the costs of all transportation systems at the WDW Resort. As a DVC member, part of my dues go toward "transportation". I was told by DVC that the dues for each DVC resort membership go toward the mode of transportation serving that resort. That means the new Riviera Resort will be a major contributor. It will be interesting to see what the cost of the DVC dues are when they are released. Of course, the cost will be amortized over time but consider that none of the previous DVC resorts had a new "transportation system" that was provided for it. Having said that, Disney still has to provide bus transportation to these "gondola resorts", right? There will be people who don't want to go on the gondola or are going somewhere else. That means that the gondola didn't eliminate the bus transportation for these resorts, it only reduced them. That is quite an concept. My last point is that the cost for the gondola system is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money that Disney is investing in the infrastructure and park improvements that have been announced in the last couple years. People complain about the cost of hotels "on property" but I don't think they realize what it costs for everything needed to operate the WDW resort.

Not sure what your point is. This isn't about adding some buses to handle Riviera it is about minimizing/eliminating bus service from a third of on properties rooms to two parks. It would take 40 buses an hour to each of the 2 park to equal the gondola capacity. Amortization of the buses is $50K a year for 12 years= $2Mil/year. Then you get into fuel(4mpg at $3/gal for diesel. 12 miles traveled per hour for 16 hours a day x 40 buses x 365 days a year= >$2.1 Mil), driver pay(starting pay $12/hr x 16 hours x 40 buses x 365= >$2Mil), You pretty quickly get over $6 mil a year to run bus capacity equivalent to gondola capacity without accounting for the costs of; driver benefits, uniforms, road wear and tear, bus maintenance, diesel mechanics on staff, etc. The gondola system is supposed to run on $400/day for energy costs(<$150K/year).

 

[Tigger's ally]

Not sure what your point is. This isn't about adding some buses to handle Riviera it is about minimizing/eliminating bus service from a third of on properties rooms to two parks. It would take 40 buses an hour to each of the 2 park to equal the gondola capacity. Amortization of the buses is $50K a year for 12 years= $2Mil/year. Then you get into fuel(4mpg at $3/gal for diesel. 12 miles traveled per hour for 16 hours a day x 40 buses x 365 days a year= >$2.1 Mil), driver pay(starting pay $12/hr x 16 hours x 40 buses x 365= >$2Mil), You pretty quickly get over $6 mil a year to run bus capacity equivalent to gondola capacity without accounting for the costs of; driver benefits, uniforms, road wear and tear, bus maintenance, diesel mechanics on staff, etc. The gondola system is supposed to run on $400/day for energy costs(<$150K/year).

You probably are right with most of these numbers, but you are not factoring in the workers for the gondola's. I don't think anyone on here has a figure for just how many workers will need to be at each load platform but I am sure it will be multiple employees.

 

[skier_pete]

You probably are right with most of these numbers, but you are not factoring in the workers for the gondola's. I don't think anyone on here has a figure for just how many workers will need to be at each load platform but I am sure it will be multiple employees.

This is very true, likely to be at least 3 workers at each load station. (Probably at times only 2 but I think in general 3.) More at the CBR load station if it is where the two lines come together. Less at maybe say the Riviera station where they won't have a lot of loading/unloading. This is probably a wash for the number of bus drivers.

 

[emgilmartin]

Don't think bus service will be completely eliminated. The gondolas do nothing for my family, because my husband refused to *dangle from a wire* and he would refuse to use them. He can't be the only one afraid enough of heights to forego the gondolas. We wouldn't stay at those resorts obviously.

 

[mickeystoontown]

Don't think bus service will be completely eliminated. The gondolas do nothing for my family, because my husband refused to *dangle from a wire* and he would refuse to use them. He can't be the only one afraid enough of heights to forego the gondolas. We wouldn't stay at those resorts obviously.

I'm with your husband. I'd have to take alternate transportation due to my fear of heights.

 

[Q-man]

You probably are right with most of these numbers, but you are not factoring in the workers for the gondola's. I don't think anyone on here has a figure for just how many workers will need to be at each load platform but I am sure it will be multiple employees.

Yes, but it won't require 80 with bus licenses. A few supervisors and the rest college program interns.

 

[disboardlover]

If it’s moving at 35 mph my guess is each leg will be between a 4 - 7 min ride give or take with the CBR to Epcot being the longest since the gondola will slow to load at Riviera.

The maximum design speed for the system will likely be ~1375 feet per minute, or about just over 15 miles per hour.

The system Disney has chosen is rumored to be the D-Line system by Doppelmayr with a target capacity of 5000 people per hour. This would normally necessitate the use of 10-passenger gondolas, but Disney may have elected to use 8-passenger versions (to better match typical group size). These gondolas are also likely to be passively cooled (no A/C).

 

[disboardlover]

(I bet it's more like $50 - $100 million since they have to build 5 stations - the actually lengths of cable / poles and such are really cheap, it's the stations that are the costs.)

Bingo! it likely is the biggest gondola project is North America so far. Some of the most expensive (yet smaller) projects in the past have come in around $60 million.

 

[Krandor]

Bingo! it likely is the biggest gondola project is North America so far. Some of the most expensive (yet smaller) projects in the past have come in around $60 million.

Which makes me wonder if this fact may have gotten disney a bit of a discount on them. The company that makes these has a lot to gain too. If this is a successful deplpoyment, they can market this and sell this type of system to places other then ski resorts as a viable mass transit system. So both disney and the company making these has a whole lot of potential gain from this project working out.

 

[danikoski]

Which makes me wonder if this fact may have gotten disney a bit of a discount on them. The company that makes these has a lot to gain too. If this is a successful deplpoyment, they can market this and sell this type of system to places other then ski resorts as a viable mass transit system. So both disney and the company making these has a whole lot of potential gain from this project working out.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Doppelmayr is working on a monorail fix. They make a cable car system that is very similar to the monorail in asthetics. They also make funicular systems, which is what Hogwarts Express is.

 

[Krandor]

I also wouldn't be surprised if Doppelmayr is working on a monorail fix. They make a cable car system that is very similar to the monorail in asthetics. They also make funicular systems, which is what Hogwarts Express is.

Wonder if they could build transportation between a hotel and three park that acted like you were in a space shuttlecraft?

 

[erin1715]

I'm with your husband. I'd have to take alternate transportation due to my fear of heights.

I agree. I wouldn't say I have a fear of heights, more a fear of dangling from a wire that high up in the air. No thank you.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Question that might be answered in one of the 1,890+ previous posts: will riders have to get off at each of the stations and get in line for the next segment? Or will the vehicles transfer from one circuit to another? I've been on ski gondolas that have intermediate stops (and you can choose to stay on or keep going), but the way the maps look, its seems that the AoA/PC guests will have to get off at the CBR stop and the Riviera to make it from AoA/PC to Epcot. Waiting in line three times to get to Epcot sounds awfully cumbersome....

 

[rteetz]

Question that might be answered in one of the 1,890+ previous posts: will riders have to get off at each of the stations and get in line for the next segment? Or will the vehicles transfer from one circuit to another? I've been on ski gondolas that have intermediate stops (and you can choose to stay on or keep going), but the way the maps look, its seems that the AoA/PC guests will have to get off at the CBR stop and the Riviera to make it from AoA/PC to Epcot. Waiting in line three times to get to Epcot sounds awfully cumbersome....

If you are coming from AoA/Pop you will need to transfer to the DHS or Epcot line at the CBR station.

If you are starting at CBR you can go to either DHS or Epcot with no need to transfer. You could go from Epcot to CBR with no transfers needed either. Riviera does have a station but that won't be a place where you need to transfer.