Disney's Encanto

They changed the lyrics? I thought it was the barbaric bit.
Yeah many many years ago they changed the line "where they cut off your ear if they don't like your face" to "where it's flat and immense, and the heat is intense"

both of those are followed by "it's barbaric, but hey, it's home."

Maybe the "barbaric" reference I guess?
 
I have it less with Aladdin, they were still very much in the classic (fairy)tales era, from there branching out to non-western tales is not much of a stretch.
Aladdin was an existing story which took place in a real-woreal-world setting. Jasmne kindkinda had to be ArabiArabian, although not a single character spoke Arabic, except maybe the little guy in the opening song. Sort of like how Beauty and the Beast was set in France, yet only a candlestick spoke with a wacky French accent. Disney seems to only harp on location when it suits them.
 
I finally saw it - it was very good. The music was a little hit-or-miss for me because I'm not big on that new style pitter-pat stuff, but you know. The movie was beautifully animated with a great story.
 
I do not feel Raya is well done, I think they were on the right track and could have done better. And it is just a different thought, you believe they are genuine with where the movie is placed, that it came out of the creativity of the writers. I believe it was a studio decision to be more inclusive. Choose the missing land/area first and then look for stories.

The writers for Raya are Asian American, so they probably used their own backgrounds for inspiration.
 
The writers for Raya are Asian American, so they probably used their own backgrounds for inspiration.
Then it can still be the studio who says 'I want a story set in Asia to attract more (Asian or) Asian American customers'. Either way to have writers from the place where your story is set is always a good idea.

But it can also be a downside, one of my 'problems' with Raya is in the beginning when she is a kid and gets to know Namaari, it feels very American. If they didn't look Asian/Asian background etc., I would have guessed the two children would be American based on how they talk and act.
 
Then it can still be the studio who says 'I want a story set in Asia to attract more (Asian or) Asian American customers'. Either way to have writers from the place where your story is set is always a good idea.

But it can also be a downside, one of my 'problems' with Raya is in the beginning when she is a kid and gets to know Namaari, it feels very American. If they didn't look Asian/Asian background etc., I would have guessed the two children would be American based on how they talk and act.
Or, it could be, people of Asian descent make up 4.69 of the world's almost 8 billion people (roughly 60%) while ⅔ of the world population lives in Asia; so, maybe some representation in a global market makes some sense and is the right thing to do and will further our financial revenue stream. This is where some people lose me, because they forget or misrepresent the larger global population and dynamics of the world, not just their part of the world.
 
Or, it could be, people of Asian descent make up 4.69 of the world's almost 8 billion people (roughly 60%) while ⅔ of the world population lives in Asia; so, maybe some representation in a global market makes some sense and is the right thing to do and will further our financial revenue stream. This is where some people lose me, because they forget or misrepresent the larger global population and dynamics of the world, not just their part of the world.
I did not forget it, I just do not believe that Disney chose these locations because it's the right thing. It makes sense because it makes money.
I do not believe there are noble intentions. They are willing to take the chance because of other recent successful movies, like Crazy Rich Asians. They were probably very happy that Parasite won an Oscar.

To give another example. At the moment we have a commercial in NL for a home delivery grocery company. The setting is: A gay couple on a romantic dinner date at home, one of them is black, the delivery person is a girl.
If this commercial was made two years ago, it would have been a straight couple, with most likely the woman in the kitchen and a delivery boy.
If the company was a little forward thinking the man would be in the kitchen OR it would be a biracial couple.

It feels forced to me. They are trying to hard. 'How can we make it as diverse as possible'.
They are doing it to present themselves as the right kind of company, without the intention. It's greenwashing to me.
 
I did not forget it, I just do not believe that Disney chose these locations because it's the right thing. It makes sense because it makes money.
I do not believe there are noble intentions. They are willing to take the chance because of other recent successful movies, like Crazy Rich Asians. They were probably very happy that Parasite won an Oscar.

To give another example. At the moment we have a commercial in NL for a home delivery grocery company. The setting is: A gay couple on a romantic dinner date at home, one of them is black, the delivery person is a girl.
If this commercial was made two years ago, it would have been a straight couple, with most likely the woman in the kitchen and a delivery boy.
If the company was a little forward thinking the man would be in the kitchen OR it would be a biracial couple.

It feels forced to me. They are trying to hard. 'How can we make it as diverse as possible'.
They are doing it to present themselves as the right kind of company, without the intention. It's greenwashing to me.

But, Disney as a company wants to make money, so ALL decisions boil down to what will or will not make money. Certainly they do want more diverse representation because they believe that will be more successful in today's climate - BUT that doesn't mean that they can't still do them well and let the creatives work. I doubt any executives said "Make an adventure movie with all Asian characters" but rather they saw several pitches for various films and greenlit a strong concept with Asian characters - and maybe that was a consideration over the other movies, but so what? Why does it matter? They made the movie and it was good. They made Encanto and it was GREAT! At the end of the day, what really makes money is strong execution, which is why not all "diverse" movies succeed. When done well though it's really no issue at all.
 
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It feels forced to me. They are trying to hard. 'How can we make it as diverse as possible'.
Or, life is diverse - how do we reflect that back? You do realize that for a while, business decisions were made with "how much can we homogenize this"? So, it's currently, the right thing to do to represent the world as it actually exists, the right thing to do because philosophically we realize that diversity is possible, and the right thing to do because it will net us more money than an alternative strategy (which might counter points one and two). Like - I could grant the premise if you're saying they're faking possibilities that could not exist because the diversity itself does not exist and can't ever. But reflecting diversity that does exist? Makes sense. Reflecting diversity that could exist, especially once we undo decades of media that has limited what we imagine - makes sense. Ignoring diversity to show the same characters and stories that were represented for 75 years (when all of humanity's history integrates some versions of story-telling and it makes sense to integrate as many cultures as possible)? Neither makes sense nor, currently, cents.
 
But, Disney as a company wants to make money, so ALL decisions boil down to what will or will not make money. Certainly they do want more diverse representation because they believe that will be more successful in today's climate - BUT that doesn't mean that they can't still do them well and let the creatives work. I doubt any executives said "Make an adventure movie with all Asian characters" but rather they saw several pitches for various films and greenlit a strong concept with Asian characters - and maybe that wa a consideration over the other movies, but so what? Why does it matter? They made the movie and it was good. They made Encanto and it was GREAT! At the end of the day, what really makes money is strong execution, which is why not all "diverse" movies succeed. When done well though it's really no issue at all.
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I did not forget it, I just do not believe that Disney chose these locations because it's the right thing. It makes sense because it makes money.
I do not believe there are noble intentions. They are willing to take the chance because of other recent successful movies, like Crazy Rich Asians. They were probably very happy that Parasite won an Oscar.

To give another example. At the moment we have a commercial in NL for a home delivery grocery company. The setting is: A gay couple on a romantic dinner date at home, one of them is black, the delivery person is a girl.
If this commercial was made two years ago, it would have been a straight couple, with most likely the woman in the kitchen and a delivery boy.
If the company was a little forward thinking the man would be in the kitchen OR it would be a biracial couple.

It feels forced to me. They are trying to hard. 'How can we make it as diverse as possible'.
They are doing it to present themselves as the right kind of company, without the intention. It's greenwashing to me.
That's pretty much the trouble to me as well. Everything feels so forced at this point, hardly organic. Every time Disney boasts, "We're proud to introduce our first ______ character", it's less about inclusion and more about, once again, checking off boxes. Any time someone feels the need to point something out, then you're not doing it with pure intentions. My wife's friend was over for dinner one evening and she kept bringing up how she was a proud black female business owner, and she only supports others like her. Eventually I had to ask her why she had to be a black female business owner and not simply a business owner. She didn't seem to have a response. Yet if I went about boasting that I was a white business owner who only supported other white businesses, I'd be branded a racist. Double standard much? In the end, if you want to attempt inclusion, then simply do it and stop pointing it out. A little of this and a little of that, perfect mix. The minute you feel the need to wave the inclusion flag, you're doing things for the wrong reason. I equate it to celebrities who do a good deed and then have their people promote the act. Are you doing it for folks who might benefit from your generosity? Or for the adulation of your fans? Even friends on Facebook or Instagram. Sure, we're all pleased that you are volunteering at a soup kitchen... once in your life. But why do you feel the need to tell everyone? Just do it and stop with the "look at me!! nonsense.
 
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To me, if you do not do it with the right intentions you will stop when you no longer need to.
At the moment inclusivity is a hot topic everywhere. I do think that's a good thing, certain groups have been under represented for far too long.

However, there will be a time where it no longer be a hot topic, and we can only hope that is because it is then considered the new normal.
We shall see, whether or not Disney will stop making stories about the cultures they have done recently, because that box is checked now.
Or that hopefully things will equal out once they are done catching up and then they will one year make a movie about culture x, and next year culture y, which is a good blend of all cultures.
But that's something we do not know at this moment if they are in for the short term or the long term.
 
Saw Encanto, I liked it a lot! The animation is colorful and clever, the characters are well-designed, and the songs are great because, well, it's Lin-Manuel Miranda so of course they're great! Just a few thoughts:

Spoilers, obviously:

(I deleted the first paragraph of this because I watched the movie again and it answered a few questions about how long Bruno has been gone - he left right after Mirabel's door ceremony - and I thought he had been hiding in his room when in fact he was hiding in the WALLS of the house, not in his room)

The fact that Mirabel, Luisa, and Isabella ALL have identity issues (Mirabel struggles with being the only Madrigal without a gift, Luisa thinks she's worthless without her gift, and Isabella has spent her life thinking she 'had to be perfect' or else) really makes me wonder about their parents' parenting skills. I mean, Julietta goes out of her way in one scene to insist that Mirabel is as special as everybody else, but she seems to have no problem with her mother, Abuela, telling Mirabel to her face that she should just stay out of the way because she ISN'T special. That's rough. The takeaway seems to be that Julietta's daughters take their grandmother's word over their mother's and I wish we'd seen Julietta get in Abuela's face about that. Abuela's attitude about the gifts seems to have messed up Julietta's daughters. Oddly, Pepa's children don't seem to have any self-worth issues.

There are WAY too many characters in this movie. To be honest I think the story could have been told with just Abuela, Bruno, Julietta, Isabella, Luisa, and Mirabel. Pepa and that whole side of the family didn't contribute anything except some nice character moments. The story would have been tighter if Abuela's children had been twins instead of triplets. Antonio could have still been in the story and been Julietta's child.

Anyway! Them's my thoughts, suitable for framing or wrapping fish. :-)
 
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Saw Encanto, I liked it a lot! The animation is colorful and clever, the characters are well-designed, and the songs are great because, well, it's Lin-Manuel Miranda so of course they're great! Just a few thoughts:

I love the way you're thinking about this - so much that I hadn't even considered (I took the kids to watch it again last night, in 3D). I normally hate 3D because my eyes can't quite work it out but not this time - I had absolutely no trouble! And it was really nice (as was Far From the Tree) in 3D.

I do think that re: Bruno, there was a piece of "he went off and did his own thing" but wasn't necessarily seen as gone. For instance, if Abuela had died, I think the sisters would've gone in to get him. In my mind, it made me think of how there are some family members where everyone knows where they are (physically) but without knowing where they are (emotionally/mentally), they give them a wide berth (even if closeness would help). Plus they seemed legitimately concerned about the visions and maybe just didn't want to risk it.

All good stuff!
 
Saw Encanto, I liked it a lot! The animation is colorful and clever, the characters are well-designed, and the songs are great because, well, it's Lin-Manuel Miranda so of course they're great! Just a few thoughts:

Spoilers, obviously:

I wish they'd said how long Bruno has been "missing". Has it been a year? Five years? Six months? Also, since the rooms are so huge, why didn't the family immediately think "He's hiding in his room"? Or do they actually think that and they're just leaving him alone? That whole part of the storyline is vague. I wasn't sure if Bruno was actually missing, eg nobody knows where he went, or they all assume he's hiding in his room and they're good with that. In any case, it doesn't seem anybody in the family was concerned enough to look for him, which is bothersome. Because of course if they'd looked, they would have found him immediately since he was always in the house.

The fact that Mirabel, Luisa, and Isabella ALL have identity issues (Mirabel struggles with being the only Madrigal without a gift, Luisa thinks she's worthless without her gift, and Isabella has spent her life thinking she 'had to be perfect' or else) really makes me wonder about their parents' parenting skills. I mean, Julietta goes out of her way in one scene to insist that Mirabel is as special as everybody else, but she seems to have no problem with her mother, Abuela, telling Mirabel to her face that she should just stay out of the way because she ISN'T special. That's rough. The takeaway seems to be that Julietta's daughters take their grandmother's word over their mother's and I wish we'd seen Julietta get in Abuela's face about that. Abuela's attitude about the gifts seems to have messed up Julietta's daughters. Oddly, Pepa's children don't seem to have any self-worth issues.

There are WAY too many characters in this movie. To be honest I think the story could have been told with just Abuela, Bruno, Julietta, Isabella, Luisa, and Mirabel. Pepa and that whole side of the family didn't contribute anything except some nice character moments. The story would have been tighter if Abuela's children had been twins instead of triplets. Antonio could have still been in the story and been Julietta's child.

Anyway! Them's my thoughts, suitable for framing or wrapping fish. :-)

I think you have it pretty nailed - Abuela's entire attitude is very wrong-headed, but nobody in the family dares to challenge her. They're all a little messed up because of Abuella, who is, in my opinion, the villain of the picture.
 
I think you have it pretty nailed - Abuela's entire attitude is very wrong-headed, but nobody in the family dares to challenge her. They're all a little messed up because of Abuella, who is, in my opinion, the villain of the picture.

I agree, although it doesn't seem like anybody else in the family has a problem with the way Abuela treats Mirabel, including Julietta (oddly). Also, apparently Julietta tries to convince Mirabel she's special even though she hasn't gotten a gift (although maybe Mom could have at least argued that Mirabel should have her own bedroom so she doesn't have to live in the nursery well past puberty, geez!!) but it doesn't seem like Julietta gave Luisa a message of "You're special APART from your gift" or ever told Isabella "You do you - if you don't want to be 'perfect', you can be whatever you want." I'm not sure if this was an oversight or if we're supposed to get the idea that the girls came up with these ideas on their own, but you'd think that Julietta would make sure they all had healthy self-images, especially with an overbearing personality like Abuela around.
 
I just learned that Encanto will debut on Disney+ Christmas Eve and I wonder why they are doing this? Because it was a smash hit in theaters and it's shocking to see Encanto premiere on Disney+ when it's doing so well in theaters
 
I just learned that Encanto will debut on Disney+ Christmas Eve and I wonder why they are doing this? Because it was a smash hit in theaters and it's shocking to see Encanto premiere on Disney+ when it's doing so well in theaters

It's just a marketing initiative to drive holiday subscribers - they frame it as a "gift" for the holidays. They may have found the sweet-spot between the theatrical window and streaming release as Encanto has done pretty well at the box-office, but you can expect it to dwindle now that other big releases like Spider-Man are out there. Sing 2 is coming soon as well, and that is right in the same dempgraphic wheelhouse as Encanto, so the loss at the box-office should be minimal.
 
I just learned that Encanto will debut on Disney+ Christmas Eve and I wonder why they are doing this? Because it was a smash hit in theaters and it's shocking to see Encanto premiere on Disney+ when it's doing so well in theaters
Theaters are bringing in less and less money. Subscription services are more lucrative in the longrun.
 
I just learned that Encanto will debut on Disney+ Christmas Eve and I wonder why they are doing this? Because it was a smash hit in theaters and it's shocking to see Encanto premiere on Disney+ when it's doing so well in theaters
I'm not sure I'd call it a smash hit... not even close, for the big Thanksgiving weekend brought in around $40 million compare that to Frozen 2 which brought in about $130 million, SpiderMan just brought in $260 million. Family movies are just not bringing in the big bucks right now, so move it to Disney+ makes more sense, plus the theaters are packed with Spiderman. I agree with this from CNBC, "Family-friendly films, especially animated films, have largely underperformed during the pandemic, as parents have kept their unvaccinated kids at home." I think more and more families will skip the theater and wait for Disney movies to show up on Disney+ so they can save the money and headaches, plus the risk of Covid to watch it all from their own living room.
 

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