Dolphin Resort assault?

[bbeagle]

I was just going to say the same thing . It's "fascinating* to me that this was even laid out as a comparison.

So, it's only 'not allowed as victim blaming' if another human being attacks in a vulnerable situation?

A. Selfie taker stands at edge of cliff (dangerous) and falls.
B. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is killed by a car walking across the street
C. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is attacked by a pit bull.
D. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is robbed.
E. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is raped.

Why is 'E' different from the others?

 

[starlite_]

So, it's only 'not allowed as victim blaming' if another human being attacks in a vulnerable situation?

A. Selfie taker stands at edge of cliff (dangerous) and falls.
B. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is killed by a car walking across the street
C. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is attacked by a pit bull.
D. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is robbed.
E. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is raped.

Why is 'E' different from the others?

The only one different here is A. On B, C, D and E someone else caused the injury of the victim.
B. The driver.
C. The pit bull and it's owner.
D. The robber.
E. The rapist.

Victim blaming specifically happens when someone else causes the damage and the victim is blamed for it. If the selfie taker falls by themselves then they are the only one involved in the accident.

 

[bbeagle]

Victim blaming specifically happens when someone else causes the damage and the victim is blamed for it. If the selfie taker falls by themselves then they are the only one involved in the accident.

So we are not blaming the victim for crossing the road drunk? Placing themselves in a situation where it's dark, and they are in the middle of a road, and their senses aren't all there, is okay? What if they lie down in the road and fall asleep before being hit by the car? Still can't blame them?

 

[starlite_]

So we are not blaming the victim for crossing the road drunk? Placing themselves in a situation where it's dark, and they are in the middle of a road, and their senses aren't all there, is okay? What if they lie down in the road and fall asleep before being hit by the car? Still can't blame them?

You are putting up a lot of strawmen that have nothing to do with the fact that the only person responsible for a rape is the rapist.
Someone sleeping in the middle of the road where the driver can't see them has nothing to do with that. An accident is not the same as a crime.

 

[meremac]

You are putting up a lot of strawmen that have nothing to do with the fact that the only person responsible for a rape is the rapist.
Someone sleeping in the middle of the road where the driver can't see them has nothing to do that. An accident is not the same as a crime.

Right? It's amazing the lengths that people will go to in an effort to find a way to assign at least *some* blame to a rape victim.

 

[bbeagle]

You are putting up a lot of strawmen that have nothing to do with the fact that the only person responsible for a rape is the rapist.

As a guy, I KNOW that I bear some responsibility if I get robbed, attacked or killed. I learned this in grade school. If I leave a casino, inebriated, counting my wad-of-cash winnings as I walk down side streets, it INVITES someone to rob me. Putting away the cash and walking normally increases the odds that I won't be a robbery victim. Should I be robbed in either case? No. Might I? Yes.

Same with someone who is looking to sexually assault someone. They're looking for the easy mark. If you want to make yourself an easy mark, your odds of being sexually assaulted increase. Should it work this way in society? No. But does it? Yes.

 

[a1tinkfans]

Atleast it’s Fla and not Cali or ny or a myriad of other Forward thinking states.. where he’d have no bail and walk out. Glad she’s a alive to tell her side of the story.

 

[starlite_]

As a guy, I KNOW that I bear some responsibility if I get robbed, attacked or killed. I learned this in grade school. If I leave a casino, inebriated, counting my wad-of-cash winnings as I walk down side streets, it INVITES someone to rob me. Putting away the cash and walking normally increases the odds that I won't be a robbery victim. Should I be robbed in either case? No. Might I? Yes.

Same with someone who is looking to sexually assault someone. They're looking for the easy mark. If you want to make yourself an easy mark, your odds of being sexually assaulted increase. Should it work this way in society? No. But does it? Yes.

I am sorry that you feel like it's your fault if you get sexually assaulted.
Taking steps to mitigate damage to protect yourself in case of robbery is not the same at all as "being an easy mark" for sexual assault. (And in that case it would still be the robber's fault for being, you know, a robber.)

Existing while drunk is not an invitation for sexual assault. Wearing a skirt is not an invitation for sexual assault. Wearing makeup is not an invitation for sexual assault. Same as walking towards your car is not an invitation for robbery.

 

[fatmanatee]

So, it's only 'not allowed as victim blaming' if another human being attacks in a vulnerable situation?

A. Selfie taker stands at edge of cliff (dangerous) and falls.
B. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is killed by a car walking across the street
C. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is attacked by a pit bull.
D. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is robbed.
E. Person leaves bar late at night, inebriated, and is raped.

Why is 'E' different from the others?

There’s no indication in the story that she was inebriated and several clues that she was very aware of what was happening both before and after the rape.

 

[J-Dog]

So much victim blaming on this thread. It doesn't matter at all what she was doing and how inebriated she was. The only person responsible for the assault is the rapist. I'm so disappointed in some of you...

What difference does it make? This is the internet.

Literally in every forum, EVER, on the internet, posting this story would generate some victim-blaming.

Feels like a losing battle to me, to try to shame people into not saying what they want to say online...

 

[starlite_]

What difference does it make? This is the internet.

Literally in every forum, EVER, on the internet, posting this story would generate some victim-blaming.

Feels like a losing battle to me, to try to shame people into not saying what they want to say online...

"It will happen anywhere so I won't attempt to be a better human being then because it hurt my freedooms of speech" Ok. Clicking that very nice ignore button. And don't worry, I cannot be disappointed in you because I don't know who you are.

 

[SteveH]

It just goes to show that even if you perceive you're in a bubble that feels safe there's dirt bags everywhere.

This is what came to my mind when I saw this story a few weeks ago.

Don't let your guard down, ever. Sadly when under the influence even the smartest and most aware person can a poor decision. I am happy they go this creep and from other reports it sounds like the Dolphin did see her on camera at some points.

 

[J-Dog]

"It will happen anywhere so I won't attempt to be a better human being then because it hurt my freedooms of speech" Ok. Clicking that very nice ignore button. And don't worry, I cannot be disappointed in you because I don't know who you are.

I'm not the person you were responding to initially.

I'm just saying that trying to chastise someone on the internet is basically pointless.

 

[BaybeeYoda]

This is so incredible upsetting. Did they ever catch the criminal???

 

[bsmcneil]

No you are not.

If someone walks to the edge of a cliff to take a selfie and falls to their death, explaining that you shouldn't do that is not 'victim blaming', it's simply describing what happened, and helps society as a whole to know what activities to avoid.

Same as if you are inebriated and follow a stranger outside a bar. Male or Female. This is a risky behavior. It is not victim blaming. It is simply stating a risky behavior.

A growing number of crimes are where women flirt with men at a bar, both go back to his place, then the female slips drugs into the male's drink so he goes into a zombie state. He then unknowingly helps the female take drain money from his accounts. The male is the victim here. Do we explain what the male could have done differently, or is that wrong?

Explaining risky behaviors and why not to do them is very helpful and useful.

People don't sexually assault themselves. It's really not someone's fault if someone else does something to them. It's not a driver's fault if a drunk driver hits them, regardless of when or where they were driving. "It's not the done thing" ;-)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As a guy

If you want to make yourself an easy mark

Hard stop, this really tells me all I need to know how you would view the situation. So many men out there can and do better in their viewpoint on this but we are still a long ways.

I noticed in all your examples throughout the comments you didn't once frame it like you would be subject to sexual assault or as you put it "an easy mark". Not once did you come at it like you were putting yourself in the shoes of being sexually assaulted. So very telling.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

At some point you need to be careful not to put yourself in the position of being taken advantage of and becoming the victim of a crime.

Statistically for women it's their mere existence that does this especially for the crime being spoken about. Which is decidedly an issue I would think..

 

[bbeagle]

Hard stop, this really tells me all I need to know how you would view the situation. So many men out there can and do better in their viewpoint on this but we are still a long ways.

I noticed in all your examples throughout the comments you didn't once frame it like you would be subject to sexual assault or as you put it "an easy mark". Not once did you come at it like you were putting yourself in the shoes of being sexually assaulted. So very telling.

Wow. So much misandry.

A man learns early on to not make himself 'an easy mark' to be beaten up or robbed. That is a REAL concern for men.

And men are sexually assaulted all the time but cannot do anything about it as society doesn't care. I have been to bars and nightclubs where women strangers have come up to me out of nowhere and slapped or squeezed my butt, grabbed my crotch, or ran their fingers across my chest. Afterwards they would give a flirty look and laugh and walk away. I can't 'report' this to anyone. Nothing would happen. It would be 'my fault' for not liking it. If the opposite thing happened and I touched a woman, I'd be kicked out of the bar and the police might be called.

 

[bbeagle]

Statistically for women it's their mere existence that does this especially for the crime being spoken about. Which is decidedly an issue I would think..

There are also instances where men's mere existence puts them in the position where they are accused of trying to commit a crime. Men always have to be wary of these situations.

 

[BrianL]

The only person that is ever to blame for a crime is the person who comitted it. They did something wrong and it doesn't matter the circumstances. If I left my keys in the car, do I deserve to have my car stolen? No - in fact I shouldn't even have to lock my car at all in a theoretical moralistic society. Without the criminal there would be no issue.

That said, of course "safety tips" aren't a bad thing either and they can help protect us since we don't live in that fantastical society, however after someone is assaulted is not the time to lecture them on what they could have done differently. It's just not helpful at that point.