Expelling child with ADHD

[Schmeck]

This link (if it works) should give your friend all the info she needs:

http://idea.ed.gov/explore/view/p/,root,dynamic,TopicalBrief,6,

I read down to #10. That's an important one if the child does not have an IEP.

 

[C&G'sMama]

This link (if it works) should give your friend all the info she needs:

http://idea.ed.gov/explore/view/p/,root,dynamic,TopicalBrief,6,

I read down to #10. That's an important one if the child does not have an IEP.

Thank you. I read it and it applies to them.

 

[Kazzy1548]

Unfortunately , if the school can not provide services for her. They have a legal obligation to find a school who can service her. They have to insure to academic learning for all children, if she is being disruptive in class, and they don't have anyone to help her out, they have a right to refuse her presence at school. But they have to prove they can't give her the services that she needs.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Unfortunately , if the school can not provide services for her. They have a legal obligation to find a school who can service her. They have to insure to academic learning for all children, if she is being disruptive in class, and they don't have anyone to help her out, they have a right to refuse her presence at school. But they have to prove they can't give her the services that she needs.

And the school hasn't proven any of this yet. Their first was step was to say "she's expelled, don't come back". Not quite that short, but basically. No suggestions, no offer of help, nothing. When the mom sent a note to the school head he did say, well if you want to talk to Ms. X or Mr. Y they may be able to give you suggestions. From everything I've read and from what the attorneys have said so far, the school needs to do more. This is where I'm having a problem. Yes, they need to think of all the children and if they can't help her, then maybe this isn't the right spot but.... IMO and it sounds like the attorneys and the disability experts agree they have not done everything yet. (That piece is kind of typical, they make a decision and don't look for input). But as the school gets older and there are more of us parents asking questions, they've had to get more in line with procedure. They have been "dinged" on their parent involement policy which they are working to improve. All that said, we still love this school. There is a very low teacher turnover and for the most part we love the staff. This is only the school's 4th year and only the 8th year of Charter Schools in NY State. So I think there are a lot of amiguities around this with the Charter Schools sometimes thinking they have more flexibility than they do.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Hi all,
Well my friend is still dealing with the school. She has hired an attorney and the attorney feels she has a good case. The child wants to go back to this school and her twin sister is there. My partner is going to go into school with her on Monday (when classes resume). As I mentioned before she is a single mom and it's hard enough to deal with issues when you have another person to back you up. But when you are in these meetings alone it's harder. So DP has offered to accompany her to any meetings. Just as an observer, note taker and general support. We found with our dealings with the district that the teachers and administrators all had support whether from a union or people from district headquarters, but the parents don't have that. I'm sure many of you can relate to that.

 

[Schmeck]

We found with our dealings with the district that the teachers and administrators all had support whether from a union or people from district headquarters, but the parents don't have that. I'm sure many of you can relate to that.

Parents have many options for support - anyone can bring an advocate. Do you mean you think the school should provide/pay for an advocate? Staff pay union dues for the support from the union.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Parents have many options for support - anyone can bring an advocate. Do you mean you think the school should provide/pay for an advocate? Staff pay union dues for the support from the union.

No, I don't think the school shoud provide or pay for an advocate. I just think we as parents just don't know what is available to us. We've learned but many parents have no clue. And I'm not just talking about special education services. The parents and children are the end users yet the schools act like we work for them. We live in a large urban district where politics rule and everything is twisted by the "district". I love the teachers, love the kids but not the administration. And a lot of parents don't know they can bring an advocate and don't know where to start. They very naively think the district is working for their kids.

 

[mechurchlady]

Big hugs to you, C&G'sMama. It is that way with my mother getting sick and many other things in life. Nobody tells you about your rights or what is out there to help you. At least your friend has you and is blessed to have a friend like you. She definitely needs a second person with her at any school meetings to make sure everything is covered and take notes.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Big hugs to you, C&G'sMama. It is that way with my mother getting sick and many other things in life. Nobody tells you about your rights or what is out there to help you. At least your friend has you and is blessed to have a friend like you. She definitely needs a second person with her at any school meetings to make sure everything is covered and take notes.

Thank you Church Lady for your kind words.

I won't go into details but we had 2 years of trying to make things better in our home district. Many families have left because of how the district is mismanaged. We tried to stick around for the sake of all of the kids but we just couldn't anymore. So we are very passionate about how parents, guardians etc. are treated. We have been lied to, threatened and bribed. (I'm not making this up and other families have had the same experience. But you get painted as crazy or Bit... because noone wants to believe that the grownups in charge would behave this way.) The teachers know, but they have no power, even with the union. We have learned a lot along the way. We have even kicked around the idea of a parent "union" similar to what has been done in Los Angeles but don't have the energy for it. And like I said, most people that can leave eventually do. If a family is fortunate enough to be in a school with a decent admin, then they are fine. We do have a few. We have tons of great teachers, it's never been about them. So now we are at the charter school and overall we are happy. But we are very disconcerted about how this whole situation is "going down". I've decided there isn't anything the mom hasn't told us. She is having my partner go to any meetings with her from now on. And more things are coming to light as far as plans being written up and signed but not being followed through on. Again, I really think it has to do with this new adminstrator. So DP is going to start going into school 3 days a week to volunteer in our children's classrooms.

Again, I just need to "vent".

 

[mechurchlady]

Vent away as it is good for you to vent here. I send you hugs and lots of chocolates and prayers for your friend. It is sad when schools fail kids and society. Mom and me are the result of failed school systems. It is sad to see parents have no say in how a school should be run and end up running from the school. For me this board shows me how blessed I am like that I live in a warm place and had a loving set of parents but one is screaming for dinner, lol. Yoou think the day is hard until you see the problems other face. Thanks for the updates.

I now go to cook dinner, thank god for microwaves, lol.

 

[Schmeck]

No, I don't think the school shoud provide or pay for an advocate. I just think we as parents just don't know what is available to us. We've learned but many parents have no clue. And I'm not just talking about special education services. The parents and children are the end users yet the schools act like we work for them. We live in a large urban district where politics rule and everything is twisted by the "district". I love the teachers, love the kids but not the administration. And a lot of parents don't know they can bring an advocate and don't know where to start. They very naively think the district is working for their kids.

I'm sorry that your school system is so messed up. I guess we're really blessed to have a great system here (except for the middle school, don't get me started on that, LOL!) that supports all of the students, special ed or not.

I agree that some parents haven't done their homework to find out what services are available to them. But I don't see that as the schools' responsibility at all.

 

[C&G'sMama]

I'm sorry that your school system is so messed up. I guess we're really blessed to have a great system here (except for the middle school, don't get me started on that, LOL!) that supports all of the students, special ed or not.

I agree that some parents haven't done their homework to find out what services are available to them. But I don't see that as the schools' responsibility at all.

But if the school's were functioning correctly in the first place there wouldn't be a problem to begin with. And with anything it's helpful to have the knowledge of other people behind you. Kind of like Disney World, how many people come to these boards to share their knowledge and experiences? We have so many parents that go ointo the schools just thinkng the schools are doing what they are supposed to (which they should be but that's a dead horse). Teachers have the unions (as well they should, I am from a Union Family) Administrators have a union and the knowledge that goes with it. What do parents have? And quite frankly we have a large number of students in our district (this is a 36,000 student district) that have uninvolved parents or ones that just don't know any better. The district has an office of parent involvement, which sounds good and there are some good people there, but it is under the control of the district.

And in our county we have a lot of great suburban districts. We don't move because we like the city, our kids are in a good school now or they would be home schooled. And if all of us left who would be left behind to help make things better. And that is a huge problem and it does not just affect the schools but the city as a whole. And that's true in most urban areas especially those in states such as ours and yours (my brother is in Eastern MA (Burlington)) where there are not county wide school systems.

 

[brekin67]

Our state, Oklahoma, has an agency that provides advocacy for individuals with disabilities. Part of Oklahoma Department of Human Services....Office of Client Advocacy. Check with you state's developmental disability services division. Maybe they can help.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Well today was the first day back to school after break so our friend brought her DD in to school as her attorney suggested (the school did send her home. DP went with the mom to meet with school staff, t0he dean, the director of business and finance , the school social worker and the assistant director of instruction. This is why I think it can be very daunting for parents if they have to go alone. It turns out the school and the mom signed a behavior agreement on a Friday (this is before Christmas) something happened on Monday (DP was at the meeting so she heard it all) and they decided to expel her. The school never followed the plan, child had a medication adjustment over the weekend that mom told the teacher about but that was never mentioned to anyone when this whole process started. Anyway Thursday is the hearing at school. Our friend's attorney will be with her. DP is a SAHM so the daughter is hanging out with her this week. Knowing everything I do, I still feel the school handled things very poorly and I swear these people have never heard of IDEA or ADA but they're learning now.

I would greatly appreciate any prayers, thoughts etc. you could send their way.

 

[mechurchlady]

I have to make dinner now but not before I engulf you with warm wishes, hugs, snugs and prayers. You are such a good friend and your DP also. It is all them against one mom and that is hard. Even if you are cheerleading and rooting on your friend it is hard work and I send you chocolates and hugs and more warm wishes. As Dory says, keep on swimming.

 

[BeckyScott]

I believe every state has a free parent advocacy service. I think they're required to, and it's funded by the state. The trick is finding it.

As far as it being the school's responsibility to teach parents what services are available... I can tell you what happened to me... in Missouri, the parent advocacy service is called MPact. I knew it existed and knew what it was. But I didn't know how to contact them. I was not told it existed by the school, but by another parent. The school doesn't like MPact and I think they'd be happiest if parents never knew it existed, because in their eyes MPact causes nothing but trouble. I was trying to find the phone number for them and our internet was down. I called our school, the school board office, the preschool where DS had gone, any place I could think of that might know... none of them could/would give me the MPact phone number. Most acted like they'd never heard of it. To be fair, a few years ago our local MPact lady was a fireball, and that's putting it nicely. Parents loved her. Schools about threw up at the mention of her name.

Which means, of course, that when DS was diagnosed, nobody sat down with me and said "there are resources for you, here's a list"... in fact, we have a free my-taxes-paid-for-it parent advocacy service, and several other things, that nobody will tell a parent about. The school won't tell you cause they don't like MPact, the therapists usually won't tell you just cause they are doing other stuff, most mainstream teachers probably don't know it exists, I never at any point had anyone give me a list or brochure or anything, all I ever got was about two zillion copies of Procedural Safeguards. I could go to my son's school, if it was possible, and ask every parent with a kid with an IEP what MPact was, and I'm sure well over half of them would have no idea. When oldest DS was in process of being tested, just like a month ago, the school didn't mention anything other than the school- not our local disabilities center, not our local DMH service, nothing. Yes, I've been down this road before so I didn't really need them to tell me, but I don't think they tell anyone. Considering that when a child is school-aged, the school is often the first place that a disability is observed, you'd think they would have some tiny responsibility to at least throw a couple of brochures at a parent.

 

[seashoreCM]

I think that the school needs to ensure the safety and comfort of the other kids first.

One starting point is to "let's say" ("assume" looks like too strong a word) that the one who is threatening, the one who is hitting, and the one who is disrupting, ADHD or not, all want more attention. Except to me, attention is a child care function, not an educational function. The school needs to decide, if it can, how much attention it can dole out in the sum total. Again, my opinion is that if a child needs or wants a lot of attention, the family and not the school should provide it. The end result may include turning to the town or the state for support.

It is unfortunate that in some schools, after ADA, NCLB, IEP, etc. there is not enough left for the "gifted" kids.

Anyone for a buddy system at school, namely kids are grouped in pairs or threesomes to among other things monitor one another's behavior? With instant reconfiguration of buddies if ganging up or even domination should creep in.

 

[C&G'sMama]

To seashore CM regarding the safety and comfort of others. This kid has never hurt or threatened another child. My daughter has been threatened and has been hit, those kids have not been expelled and I don't feel they should be.

BeckyScott, isn't that the truth about the schools keeping information from you. It's nice to be an informed parent but if noone is willing to share information (ie the school district) than how are we supposed to find things out. And that is by talking to other parents and sometimes just being in the right place at the right time. We just found out yesterday that if you request an IEP for your child at a charter school (this may just be NYS, because different states have different rules) and the teacher writes a letter to request a referral from the district and the school needs to include everything they've done to date to help the child. So it can be several weeks before the district will even look at. But if the parent calls the district directly than the request goes through immediately and the process begins. We never knew this and we consider ourselves pretty well informed. DP was in a meeting with our friend yesterday when she found this out. It's relevant to us for our son. It is so frustrating that we have to work so hard to get the information that should be right there. As you said our tax dollars are paying for this stuff, why don't we know about it.

As for our friend. They have "called off" the expulsion and will meet Friday to discuss the course of action for the friend's daughter. Our friend's attorney knows education law. I honestly don't think this school has dealt with anyone who has taken things this far. Turns out it was the school's attorney that said she should be expelled. He's a real estate attorney!! I think they say hey, you're kid is out and people leave. Not everyone can afford an attorney, not everyone thinks to question those in a leadership position. Not everyone knows about the advocacy center which is another resource our friend could have used. I found out about it because my sister works for a non-profit that specializes in championing for people with disabilities. They have services and they do a TON of lobbying. She talked to someone in her organization that suggested The Advocacy Center and that if that didn't work she'd help. But it shouldn't be that convoluted. So many people just walk away.

To end, thank you all for your comments, suggestions, hugs etc.

 

[mechurchlady]

The most important thing is C&G'sMama who is a dear friend who fought for someone else. It takes people fighting for others because that one person they help may not be alone and there are probably others going through the same thing. I have learned so much from this board and been encouraged to change my life becuase of the fighters.

Sending you more hugs and a medal of honour for your support in the fight for disabled rights.
http://veterans.senate.gov/press_images/Medal_of_Honor.jpg
My version is chocolate filled. The best nonviolent solution to any situation is chocolate.

 

[famofsix]

To seashore CM regarding the safety and comfort of others. This kid has never hurt or threatened another child. My daughter has been threatened and has been hit, those kids have not been expelled and I don't feel they should be.

BeckyScott, isn't that the truth about the schools keeping information from you. It's nice to be an informed parent but if noone is willing to share information (ie the school district) than how are we supposed to find things out. And that is by talking to other parents and sometimes just being in the right place at the right time. We just found out yesterday that if you request an IEP for your child at a charter school (this may just be NYS, because different states have different rules) and the teacher writes a letter to request a referral from the district and the school needs to include everything they've done to date to help the child. So it can be several weeks before the district will even look at. But if the parent calls the district directly than the request goes through immediately and the process begins. We never knew this and we consider ourselves pretty well informed. DP was in a meeting with our friend yesterday when she found this out. It's relevant to us for our son. It is so frustrating that we have to work so hard to get the information that should be right there. As you said our tax dollars are paying for this stuff, why don't we know about it.

As for our friend. They have "called off" the expulsion and will meet Friday to discuss the course of action for the friend's daughter. Our friend's attorney knows education law. I honestly don't think this school has dealt with anyone who has taken things this far. Turns out it was the school's attorney that said she should be expelled. He's a real estate attorney!! I think they say hey, you're kid is out and people leave. Not everyone can afford an attorney, not everyone thinks to question those in a leadership position. Not everyone knows about the advocacy center which is another resource our friend could have used. I found out about it because my sister works for a non-profit that specializes in championing for people with disabilities. They have services and they do a TON of lobbying. She talked to someone in her organization that suggested The Advocacy Center and that if that didn't work she'd help. But it shouldn't be that convoluted. So many people just walk away.

To end, thank you all for your comments, suggestions, hugs etc.

fyi a copy of the special education law can be picked up at Boces. I can't remember if it is Boces 1 or 2 but your friend could call. I am not in the city of rochester but I do know the law allows you to bring anyone you want to an IEP meeting and an IEP can be developed from professionals outside of the district as long as they have the same qualifications as the school professionals. Usually they will charge a fee to come to the IEP meeting but because they are professionals and "speak" the same language of the special education law they can advocate for more services and keep the school accountable for interpreting the law correctly.

Sadly, you are correct that parents do not know the special education law and they are not informed of their rights in terms of outside advocacy. I would advise your friend not to sign anything ever before having the attorney Ok it given the cirmcumstances. Also, the disitrict is required by the state to respond within a certian time-frame if your friend wants to set up a meeting.

Here is an older link but it may help:
http://www.vesid.nysed.gov/specialed/publications/policy/parentguide.htm