I Think The 500-Day Booking Rule (as we knew it) Has Changed

[bama_ed]

I noticed this morning a second concern from a DIS poster regarding Fort availability when trying to book at the 499 day mark (Disneylover2000). I say "second" because someone trying to book at the 499 for Halloween time ran into the same issue (sambuster): No availability. At 499/500. Unusual.

To put that theory to the test, I attempted to book out around the 499/500 day limit and see what results I got. But first it's important to understand the 499/500 booking window rule as we formerly knew it:

OLD RULE: Basically, your entire reservation had to fit within a 500 day window from the day you booked it. In other words, your check OUT day from your Disney resort had to be on day 500 or sooner. That meant you had 499 nights and 500 days (maximum) from your reservation day to your check-out day.

(this is why some folks refer to it as the 499 rule or 500 rule. one was for days the other nights but the concept was the same).

It appears that Disney has altered the 500 day rule to use a method to the one used by ReserveAmerica (and possibly other systems) when booking state parks:

NEW RULE: Now your ARRIVAL day can be day 500 from today's reservation day or sooner. But you cannot book a reservation to arrive 501 days from now or further out.

So let's test the theory.

From today, July 22, 2019, 500 days out takes you to December 3, 2020.



I attempted to book a reservation (at any resort not just the Fort) for day 499 (Dec 2), day 500 (Dec 3), and day 501 (Dec 4) as various ARRIVAL dates.

Arriving December 2, 2020 (day 499) I could put a room in my shopping cart:



Arriving December 3, 2020 (day 500) I could put a room in my shopping cart:



Arriving December 4, 2020 (day 501) I could NOT get ANY rates for ANY hotels to show up (example):



Thus I could not choose anything to put it in my shopping cart.

Again, one reason I believe this is the case is that other vendors use a similar approach. Whether it is so many days or months out, a line is drawn in the sand as the maximum ARRIVAL day and then usual length of stay rules apply. It appears Disney implemented this with the release of the 2020 resort rates. So that means Christmas stays through the end of December can be booked now.

Anybody want to try out the theory and try to poke holes in it? I'm an engineer by trade so I had a theory, tested it, and I'm now putting it out for peer (all of you) review.

Bama Ed

PS - even the booking rules for my favorite Gulf State Park changed recently in a similar fashion. So I believe Disney is adopting the same approach.

 

[proudmomof4]

I saw something about this on Facebook.

People were booking the entire month of November in order to get a jump on the Thanksgiving bookings.

They were commenting that they will call back later and cancel the days they don’t want.

I wonder if they will run into the other rule Disney implemented a few years back, the one where your “new” dates had to show as available (even though you already have those days within your reservation) in order to drop the days you didn’t want.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

 

[rajak73]

That's a possibility, reserve america does this in Nebraska for the state park reservations, it's 1 year from date of arrival.

 

[bama_ed]

rajak73,

As FYI from my experiences the Florida State Park system is 11 months to the second at 8am Eastern time of the morning of booking. Then you can book up to a 14-day stay (playing the game of booking a SP campsite in the Keys) and then watching the cancellations come in days later when people drop the unwanted days in ReserveAmerica from 14 days to what they really want to keep. It's THEN (that second period catching cancelled days) is when I've had the most success in Florida SP's.

But it's silly to have the campsite that is coming available that morning pulled up on-screen and hitting return constantly as the Internet webs clock gets to 8:00:00am.

If Disney were every to implement site-specific reservations in the manner of ReserveAmerica, I fear the breakdown of humanity for people trying to get specific sites on specific dates. It could get ugly. Think the corner outside site at the end of 700 loop where you can display a lot of Christmas decorations (all within your own site of course). There would be bidding wars.

But that's not here yet.

Bama Ed

 

[Starwind]

Could it be they haven't loaded everything yet ? Also, per below there are clear availability issues for some dates.

FWIW, did some experimenting.

On today, 22 July 2019 [499 days = 2 december 2020]

The following showed prices and you could add them to your cart:

Tent or Pop-Up Campsite for 3-7 dec 2020 but nothing else

12/02/2020 - 12/04/2020:
Tent or Pop-Up Campsite
Full Hook-Up Campsite
Preferred Campsite

12/03/2020 - 12/04/2020
All categories available to choose

SW

 

[bama_ed]

Well Starwind,

You've duplicated my results because the change is now based on the ARRIVAL DATE. As you and I demonstrated, arrivals on 12/2/20 or 12/3/20 are available. But today 7/22/19 try an arrival on 12/4/20 or later - you can't - at any resort. That's the difference.

To have a check-out date beyond 500 days is now permitted (the arrival must be day 500 or sooner) but with a maximum 30-day reservation that means your check-out day can be 530 days max from reservation day. Meaning you can have check-out dates down near Christmas 2020 as of today.

And that's another reason why I checked all resorts rather than just the Fort. If you can only get dates out to December 7 and not available past that, that means that people have booked up Thanksgiving and the first week of December. Based on the calendar calculations, 12/7/20 minus 530 days mean they could have booked as early as June 26, 2019.

Bama Ed

 

[tiggerdad]

I managed to treat 25 patients today for various conditions including Parkinson's, migraines, carpal tunnel, and even syphilis. Then, I came home and changed out the alternator on a 88 GMC Sierra and was thinking to myself how much I had accomplished then I found this thread.





So my days accomplishments...



In all seriousness, this makes more sense from a booking standpoint to start with the first day. However, I do fear what this may lead to as people in fact do book entire long spans of time just to secure certain dates along the way.

 

[rajak73]

My Head Hurts!! Oh well, just keep swimming........

 

[JETS70]

I agree with tiggerdad that this could lead to lots of 30 day bookings with massive modifications to get the reservation down to the specific dates wanted. This could deplete the available sites rather quickly for others wishing to make a reservation.
Disney could make a rule that if you make a modification to your reservation, (deleting days) you would have to cancel your complete reservation and then rebook. If you are adding days...….no problem. If they are available......add them on. If you are going to drop days, you have to cancel and rebook. This would have to be a deterrent to making the 30 day reservation.

Steve

 

[Stork]

Thank goodness I check this forum over breakfast every morning. I just booked our Dec 2020 FW visit for 12/3/20 - 12/11/20. That's 499 until check-in and 507 until check-out. Glad I didn't wait until 499 prior to check-out. Yes, I can confirm the policy has changed. Or maybe the Russians hacked the WDW online system to help us out! Just sayin'.

 

[Breezy2]

Since Disney has changed their booking policy it will be interesting to see if it continues to follow current trends. As we've been traveling this year 98% or more have been charging full length of stay fees up front instead of one nights stay. Then they charge a cancellation fee of one nights stay PLUS an additional penalty fee. Just imagine what that would do to the Disney Reservation System, our wallets, and planning-yikes!

 

[Disneylovers2000]

I think I am understanding all theories that have been laid out but what I don't understand and what has most frustrated me is - I attempted to book on my arrival date of Dec 1 (500 days out) to Dec 13 2020. What I don't understand is - the only availabilities were tent site or the new Premium Meadow. I called Disney, and they could not understand why those were the only 2 available and they could not do anything about it to override it. She also told me that they are not unavailable due to being booked up. I just checked today (before posting this) to see what I could get at the 496 day mark and the only availability now are tent sites. Why is it that I can book some sites but not others for the length of my stay? So in my opinion, there isn't really one theory that would explain what they are doing nor do the cast members even know themselves what is going on! I did book the Meadows premium at $2100 for my stay but am hoping that if/when the other sites open up, that I am able to change my reservation. Booking the Meadow is costing us at least $500 more for our stay than regular Premium and even more if we booked preferred. At any rate, I am booked and very excited to once again, visit the Fort.

 

[Disneylovers2000]

I agree with tiggerdad that this could lead to lots of 30 day bookings with massive modifications to get the reservation down to the specific dates wanted. This could deplete the available sites rather quickly for others wishing to make a reservation.
Disney could make a rule that if you make a modification to your reservation, (deleting days) you would have to cancel your complete reservation and then rebook. If you are adding days...….no problem. If they are available......add them on. If you are going to drop days, you have to cancel and rebook. This would have to be a deterrent to making the 30 day reservation.

Steve

I agree! technically I have taken a Meadow spot ( 4 actually - 4 families travelling together) that I don't want but since its all I could get I took it in the hopes of changing it. Its unfortunate because someone who actually wants that area can't book it now because we have clogged some of that up.

 

[Teamubr]

Or maybe the Russians hacked the WDW online system to help us out! Just sayin'.

I'm thinking we need some Russians to hack the system. It couldn't make it much worse.

So in my opinion, there isn't really one theory that would explain what they are doing nor do the cast members even know themselves what is going on!

Oh, the wonders of the WDW reservation system. It does seem there has been a change to the 499/500 day window, but the old craziness of availability still persists. I haven't heard of the problem with no availability for the whole time you want, but doing single days makes everything available. But that's probably just because no one has tried yet.

j

 

[bama_ed]

I think I am understanding all theories that have been laid out but what I don't understand and what has most frustrated me is - I attempted to book on my arrival date of Dec 1 (500 days out) to Dec 13 2020. What I don't understand is - the only availabilities were tent site or the new Premium Meadow. I called Disney, and they could not understand why those were the only 2 available and they could not do anything about it to override it. She also told me that they are not unavailable due to being booked up. I just checked today (before posting this) to see what I could get at the 496 day mark and the only availability now are tent sites. Why is it that I can book some sites but not others for the length of my stay? So in my opinion, there isn't really one theory that would explain what they are doing nor do the cast members even know themselves what is going on! I did book the Meadows premium at $2100 for my stay but am hoping that if/when the other sites open up, that I am able to change my reservation. Booking the Meadow is costing us at least $500 more for our stay than regular Premium and even more if we booked preferred. At any rate, I am booked and very excited to once again, visit the Fort.

Heh,

Once proudmomof4 said folks were booking the entire month of November 2020 well in advance, it dawned on me that folks might be doing the same thing to get Christmas 2020 through New Years which is already inside the new booking window. Book the whole month of December and then try to trim off the days you don't really want later.

Good luck with that. I agree with jets70 that Disney should make it easy to add dates (if available at the same level) but punitive to drop them. Exactly to prevent this sort of gamesmanship/abuse. Under the old rule, you could reserve your stay one day at a time every day 500 days in advance and cobble together the stay you wanted. That's not really that bad, however, since you are not preventing folks from getting their reservation on dates you ultimately intend to dispose of.

Disneylover2000, tent sites are usually the last to book up in a given period. But now with the gap between Meadow and the rest, that honor might move to Meadow sites. Between SWGE demand (Pete said this fall was slow before the latest discount dropped but 2020 was off the charts demand wise) and the games being played by people to get those few sites left, it could be tough.

I am in for the DISMeet 2020 but might skip 2021 all together.

Bama Ed

PS - maybe the outcome of the people booking 30 days well in advance ultimately, one way or the other, will mean there might be cancellations and availability closer to time if you keep spot checking.

 

[rideswithchrist]

I'm thinking we need some Russians to hack the system. It couldn't make it much worse.


Oh, the wonders of the WDW reservation system. It does seem there has been a change to the 499/500 day window, but the old craziness of availability still persists. I haven't heard of the problem with no availability for the whole time you want, but doing single days makes everything available. But that's probably just because no one has tried yet.

j

So, ironically- one of the development companies that claim to have worked for Disney is one that my husband's company is working with. And their code keeps messing up. So I am starting to think that when there are no sites available on the day of booking, it is simply a coding error because they are changing things in the back end...and that company is Russian

 

[Stork]

So, ironically- one of the development companies that claim to have worked for Disney is one that my husband's company is working with. And their code keeps messing up. So I am starting to think that when there are no sites available on the day of booking, it is simply a coding error because they are changing things in the back end...and that company is Russian.

She who "rideswithchrist" effectively corroborates my original tongue-in-cheek comment blaming the Russians for allowing me to book a week earlier than I planned. I don't truly believe they did it FOR MY BENEFIT, but I'll take it. A fortuitous turn of events, for sure, but will I now be subject to an investigation to uncover my Russian connection? (P.S. - for the NSA eavesdroppers...there is NO connection).

 

[Cosmic]

This might be what happened to me for Halloween 2020. I looked online at 7:02 500 and 499 days out, and... no sites at all. Now, we’re arriving 11/1.

 

[Stork]

This might be what happened to me for Halloween 2020. I looked online at 7:02 500 and 499 days out, and... no sites at all. Now, we’re arriving 11/1.

Just curious, Cosmic, what's your checkout date? If that's more information than you want to disclose, I truly understand. Thanks.

 

[bama_ed]

This might be what happened to me for Halloween 2020. I looked online at 7:02 500 and 499 days out, and... no sites at all. Now, we’re arriving 11/1.

Right.

Sadly, Cosmic, I don't know what "500 and 499" means. From arrival? From checkout? What day was it when you were checking?

When Disney posted the new rates for 2020 on June 23, 2019 they didn't tell people they had changed the 500 day rule at the same time. So when 6/23/19 rolled around they could book out to arrivals as late as November 4, 2020 "just like that".

And there were reports on here of a travel agent who booked LOTS of folks during that time before it was widely known (hundreds-and how many Fort sites are there? hundreds + a few).

Plus I know from my work on the DISMeet 2020 thread for October 2020, there are other folks with group contracts MUCH bigger than ours taking sites out of consideration.

If you could come in mid-October 2020 we'd love to have you as part of our DISMeet 2020 group. I met you briefly but you would meet all the ROCK STARS of the DIS. I mean there is (and I'm gonna get in trouble here for leaving folks out) tiggerdad, SouthAlabama5er, rajak73, garneska, TeamUbr, and all the other rabble rousers I've run across. We'd love to have you join us. See my DISMeet thread on the front page of the Camping Board. They are Premium sites mostly but you would be welcomed with a big brass band.

And I'd like to have you visit us too.

Bama Ed

PS - seriously, if you can change your dates to a littel earlier, PM me for the booking form and we'd love to have you with us.