July 4th at Bay Lake Towers

[jarestel]

A few points:

Pete said re-pete-edly that he totally understood how people might be upset given how DVC handled this. And I think anyone who has chimed in has also been sympathetic. The next "event" will be handled better but there will still be folks who want to go but will get shut out. Due to the hard cap, everyone can't be happy!

There are many things at WDW I personally don't value enough to spend money on regardless of affordability. My choice is to pass them by, but yours might well be to scoop them up. We can both be happy!

This thread is a good example of how "perks can change or go away at any time". When this happens, as we can see, no one is happy!

 

[Madame]

A few points:

Pete said re-pete-edly that he totally understood how people might be upset given how DVC handled this. And I think anyone who has chimed in has also been sympathetic. The next "event" will be handled better but there will still be folks who want to go but will get shut out. Due to the hard cap, everyone can't be happy!

There are many things at WDW I personally don't value enough to spend money on regardless of affordability. My choice is to pass them by, but yours might well be to scoop them up. We can both be happy!

This thread is a good example of how "perks can change or go away at any time". When this happens, as we can see, no one is happy!

Sure & now that they’ve restricted resale why bother with perks at all? They’ve somehow manipulated the trading system to only benefit themselves & are now clawing back so-called perks that were used as a carrot to sell resorts like BLT.

Not just resale are getting screwed though. Message? Direct buyers are only considered “real” members until DVD has their money. After that they don’t really care.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I guess the Ferrari analogy also sits badly with me because DVC has never been marketed as luxury. It's been marketed - AND STILL IS - as saving money on your Disney vacation for years to come. The amenities and room configurations aren't luxury.

And it's been a very popular product for large families, those who can't just stuff into a unit in Pop or even a studio.

For those buyers, the shift to "this former benefit is now going to cost on a per person basis, and on a top night of the year for this amenity" is a huge shift. The family of 6 was never going to buy a Ferrari, because it doesn't take car seats and boosters and puke well.

 

[Deb & Bill]

A few points:

Pete said re-pete-edly that he totally understood how people might be upset given how DVC handled this. And I think anyone who has chimed in has also been sympathetic. The next "event" will be handled better but there will still be folks who want to go but will get shut out. Due to the hard cap, everyone can't be happy!

There are many things at WDW I personally don't value enough to spend money on regardless of affordability. My choice is to pass them by, but yours might well be to scoop them up. We can both be happy!

This thread is a good example of how "perks can change or go away at any time". When this happens, as we can see, no one is happy!

What is the guess on the cost of the NYE event at the TOTWL? Gonna be a lot more than $99 a person. I'll guess $250 a person with hot and cold appetizers, adult beverages and champagne toast at midnight.

 

[jarestel]

Sure & now that they’ve restricted resale why bother with perks at all?

The perks exist to convince new purchasers to buy from DVC, not necessarily to reward long time members for being so loyal. We say "don't buy for the perks" frequently on these boards, but we're not consistent in our messaging when perks we like change or go away.

Direct buyers are only considered “real” members until DVD has their money.

DVC loves the members who continually add on to all of the new resorts. If or when DVC stops building and selling new resorts, there would be no further use for perks so I don't disagree with you.

What is the guess on the cost of the NYE event at the TOTWL? Gonna be a lot more than $99 a person. I'll guess $250 a person with hot and cold appetizers, adult beverages and champagne toast at midnight.

I think you nailed it, that price point seems totally realistic to me.

 

[Madame]

The perks exist to convince new purchasers to buy from DVC, not necessarily to reward long time members for being so loyal. We say "don't buy for the perks" frequently on these boards, but we're not consistent in our messaging when perks we like change or go away.


DVC loves the members who continually add on to all of the new resorts. If or when DVC stops building and selling new resorts, there would be no further use for perks so I don't disagree with you.


I think you nailed it, that price point seems totally realistic to me.

And if it were just perks, whatever. It’s not though.

EG. Bell services charge for grocery delivery when we already pay for BS.

EG. The number of people who bought when BLT was new & relate that the use of the lounge was spun as a selling point.

EG 2020 points chart & manipulating the BCV & BWV studio point costs in order to make it easier to sell Riviera.

They’re counting on the membership being misinformed - perks, deeded rights, they don’t care.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

This is my problem. Supposedly this is done due to customer complaints (according to what Pete was told) as people were complaining left right and centre because it was too busy. So they lock out everyone but 75 who now pay. So now they shifted so many people to the free day, you can’t even get in even if staying at BLT. Does this resolve the supposed mass of complaints? No, it makes them worse.
From a selfish perspective I am impacted, as I’m sure many others are, as I booked for New Year before any of this was announced, and I actually leave on 12/31 so 12/30 is my only choice. Will I even be able to get in? I booked because of this.

I personally have doubts that people were complaining because it was too busy. Disney is charging for everything, arguing that they are giving customers what they want. It is sleazy. I also think the Ferrari comment is a “let them eat cake” moment for Pete. Ugh. And I do think Disney’s overall target group for marketing overall is young singles or single couples. I guess they have looked at the demographics in the US, and large middle and upper middle class families are on the way out just as in most of Europe. This marketing first became visible to me on DCL several years ago, when they started using the kids clubs for adult events. Many people on the boards seem to love it, but something about it makes me cringe. Sure Walt Disney wanted everyone to stay young at heart, but did he really want people to never grow up? I don’t think that was his message at all. I think Disney is making a mistake in making families their second target marketing group.
And there are a few other vacation companies that agree with me and are banking on families= Royal Caribbean and Carnival cruise lines to name a couple. (And they do not allow adults into their kids clubs even to pick up kids. Lol)
OP: I say fight them. Even if the small print is against you. Contracts are not everything. Anyone who’s been to court knows that.

 

[Deb & Bill]

The perks exist to convince new purchasers to buy from DVC, not necessarily to reward long time members for being so loyal. We say "don't buy for the perks" frequently on these boards, but we're not consistent in our messaging when perks we like change or go away. ...

We all understand that perks go away. It's when they go away overnight without any warning that makes us angry. All they had to do was announce in January that on July 4th the TOTWL would be closed for a special event costing each guest $99 a person. Just like valet parking. People parked their vehicles one night for free and the next morning they owned the valet parking fee.

 

[jarestel]

All they had to do was announce in January that on July 4th the TOTWL would be closed for a special event costing each guest $99 a person.

The good news is, apparently anyway, TOTWL is wide open to all members from now through Dec 30th. It's unlikely they will make the same mistake twice.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The good news is, apparently anyway, TOTWL is wide open to all members from now through Dec 30th. It's unlikely they will make the same mistake twice.

Unlikely? Have you been paying attention?! This is DVC management here. They are a rolling series of obliviousness. Calls and letters aside, they think this event was a.huge success.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Unlikely? Have you been paying attention?! This is DVC management here. They are a rolling series of obliviousness. Calls and letters aside, they think this event was a.huge success.

Halloween Night, DVC event at TOTWL, $150 per person, only guests 18+ permitted.

 

[jlb727]

If DVC really wants to discourage resale, they have a funny way of going about it by continually angering long-time members to the point they might sell, and take away the perks that might get newer members to see value in buying direct. Riveria, some wine tastings, disappearing merch discounts, and ever-increasing annual passes are NOT huge incentives to pay thousands more to buy direct. I think we are seeing a recent direct buyer realize that now in another thread.

If DVC thinks they will target young childless buyers at the expense of families or long-time members, I think they underestimate how smart, informed, and savvy most buyers are. Ten minutes of research on a smartphone, and everyone but the most Disney-fied potential buyers will conclude that resale is the way to go.

 

[The Jackal]

Yes he clarified that on his site, but my point isn’t 4 tickets, it’s young kids who can’t drink and won’t appreciate charcuterie boards. 4 adults if they wish to have an adult night out, whoever pays can see some value probably. As I say in my opinion this has split the membership and peed off a large proportion of it- why do it?

I appreciate everyone is looking at it from a selfish perspective, but I still think the BLT guests only rule was the most equitable. Pete now says they will offer it to them first- so what’s the point unless it’s to make cash ?

Like everything else, from sitting by the pool to watching fireworks in a better area, it’s being taken away and monetised. Either they keep it at 75 people which means most people cannot get in and it still pisses off BLT guests, or they expand it significantly as many suspect and then it’s just monetising a previously free event. If the former, why do it?

I’m 44 and I do not appreciate $3-$4 worth of meat and cheese that they put on the charcuterie board. Give me something substantial to eat for $100. We have done the dessert parties at MK and Epcot. Lots of good snacks to eat. Some adult beverages at Epcot and you get to ride Frozen. This seems like they want to make it an adult only event. DVC handled this event awful, with almost no notice.

 

[tjkraz]

From a communications perspective, DVC dropped the ball big time.

The July 4 event was not announced 6 months in advance. It was announced on the Disney Parks Blog on June 11, 2019. And when event details and prices were first published, there was no mention of the lounge being closed to resort guests. The DPB story was amended later in the day to include that detail.

Attempts to sell a paid event--via a non-DVC website--fall far short of notifying members. DVC has the means to reach out to incoming guests via email or US mail to alert them to the schedule change, even if its a veiled attempt to upsell the paid event.

The TOTW perk page now states that the lounge is closed July 4 and December 31, but I can guarantee that notice has not been up for 6 months. And again, DVC has done nothing to draw attention to it.

 

[jarestel]

Have you been paying attention?!

I paid attention to the most important detail... the contractual agreement. Everything else is fluff and though I like some of the perks quite a bit, I wouldn't ever consider myself "victimized" if some or all went away.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I agree with OP that there is a level of bait and switch going on in their sales practices, regardless of what they put in the fine print. (Contracts do not always hold up in court anyway.). In the Bay Lake case, this is especially true for people who originally purchased Bay Lake direct. I remember stopping by those tables and the salespeople talking about the viewing lounge and other amenities. We did not buy then, but boy did it look awesome.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Halloween Night, DVC event at TOTWL, $150 per person, only guests 18+ permitted.

In all seriousness, I could absolutely see them doing Friday or Saturday night events during MNSSHP ("Hallowines: Sample delicious wines, paired with delectable cheeses and desserts, then enjoy a private viewing of the fireworks from the observation deck. 18+, must have blue card, $99 per person.") or MVMCP ("Get cozy with mulled wine, hot cocoa and freshly baked cookies as you enjoy the spectacle of the Holiday Wishes fireworks spectacular from the private observation deck at Top of the World!").

The lounge is quite popular during party nights, and I could see them running 6-8 of these on prime weekend nights where TOTW ends up hopping normally.

 

[tjkraz]

In all seriousness, I could absolutely see them doing Friday or Saturday night events during MNSSHP...

Dating back to the resort's opening, personally I expected them to close the lounge occasionally for wedding receptions or other private events. It's not like they draw a crowd of 100+ on a nightly basis. Even if they just had 3-4 set days each week for member access, people could plan around it. But it's the communications that were particularly awful in this instance.

 

[crvetter]

I agree with OP that there is a level of bait and switch going on in their sales practices, regardless of what they put in the fine print. (Contracts do not always hold up in court anyway.). In the Bay Lake case, this is especially true for people who originally purchased Bay Lake direct. I remember stopping by those tables and the salespeople talking about the viewing lounge and other amenities. We did not buy then, but boy did it look awesome.

Not to say they weren't marketing TOTWL lounge but without going through the entire direct sales purchase it is tough to say what really was disclosed at the table when signing (plenty of marketing, if not all, often has a get you in the door ad which then gets clarified once in). If I were to guess, BLT direct owners were required to sign a document acknowledging the lounge was not apart of the association and access could be removed at anytime (I believe someone on DIS recently stated this was the case but I'm having difficulty finding the post). If this is true it is similar to all the misunderstandings that BLT members pay for the cost of TOTWL lounge and DVC doesn't pay dues on their points.

Really it's just a manner of people not understanding what is being signed. But you do sign a clear document (at least recently) that states you should not purchase with the expectation of continuous access to Membership Extras as they can go away at anytime.

 

[Wakey]

In all seriousness, I could absolutely see them doing Friday or Saturday night events during MNSSHP ("Hallowines: Sample delicious wines, paired with delectable cheeses and desserts, then enjoy a private viewing of the fireworks from the observation deck. 18+, must have blue card, $99 per person.") or MVMCP ("Get cozy with mulled wine, hot cocoa and freshly baked cookies as you enjoy the spectacle of the Holiday Wishes fireworks spectacular from the private observation deck at Top of the World!").

The lounge is quite popular during party nights, and I could see them running 6-8 of these on prime weekend nights where TOTW ends up hopping normally.

They should employ you as a copy writer lol. You just missed off 'hand carved' from in there somewhere, maybe thee cheese.