OT: Somewhat gross, but could use advice

[Brightsy]

And a little....make that a LOT of pixie dust too, please!

This is kinda disgusting but I sure hope some of you can help.
My younger DS, the ASD one (almost 4) has at least once a week this last month taken off his poopy diaper and smeared his poo over himself and on the walls, carpet, etc....
We don't know what's going on, aside from the potty training aspect of it. But he doesn't communicate a need to poo or anything to us, not with pics, words or gestures. We're at our wits end here. We;ve already spent over 150$ gettng the carpet cleaned and sanitized!
I'm going to look at other places for info, too but I was sure hoping that some of you here might have some words of wisdom for me!

Sara

 

[Katerbug]

If it makes you feel any better, this is not unusual. I think it was explained to us as a tactile issue. My son also went through this stage and fortunately only made a few big messes. My son is 9yr old and is still not fully potty trained. We still have an issue with bowel movements. It takes a lot of time and patience. My son also will not tell us when he has to go. I set a timer for every 1 1/2 hours and when it goes off I stop whatever I am doing and have him go and sit down on the toilet for 5 minutes (use the timer again). Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. At school they always go down to the bathroom at the same time everyday so that keeps him on schedule there.
I'm sure others on this board will have some other suggestions and I am eager to hear them also.
Hang in there.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm sure you will get some advice from other parents who have gone thru the same sort of thing (you are not alone). My child is not autistic , but I'll start you out.

I'm a nurse. I can watch CSI when I eat.
I used to work in a setting where people pooped in the bathtub in order to have "toys" and a young autistic boy would bring poop in his hands to his PCA - he always said the same thing "Here, Beck" (her name was Becky and he never called her by name otherwise).

One way to think about it is "Communication by poop."
It may be just that he's bored and/or the poop has a nice feel and/or interesting smell, but it's also possible he may be trying to communicate something to you. If you can figure out what your son is trying to communicate, you may be able to figure out how to stop it.
In the case of the guy who was pooping in the bathtub, we found out his aide had gotten tired of picking up the toys he threw out of the bathtub, so she took all the toys away. He was toliet trained, but retaliated by providing his own "toys". When we got his toys back, he stopped making his own.

The guy who would bring poop to "Bec" would do it when he was bored and he was jealous of the atention she was giving to other kids. He found that bringing Bec some poop got her undivided attention for as long as it took to clean him up.

In the place where I am presently working, we have some patients who have had brain injuries and wear zip up suits that prevent access to the diaper area. Some have the zipper in the back, some just have the top of the zipper taped down.

If he seems to like the feel of it, you might be able to "move" the behavior to a more acceptable substance (he might like things like playdough or therapy clay or finger paints). On the other hand, if he has some of those things at school or elsewhere, he may have figured out how to make some for use at home.

Some things to ask yourself about it that I can think of:
When did the behavior start?
Did anything happen/change in your house at the time/just before the behavior started?
Is there anything new?
What is he doing before he does it?
Is he doing anything along with it?
What else is going on in the house when he starts doing it?
Is anyone else around when he does it?
What are other people in the house doing when he does it?
Do you have any idea how soon after he poops he starts playing with it (he may be communicating that he has pooped or that he doesn't like the feel of it in his diaper)?

Anyway, this is a start. Good lot and lots of pixie dust.

 

[roseprincess]

Hi Brightsy, the only thing I can think of to do is to give him positive rewards(a couple of m&ms or a small piece of candy that he likes) when he does not do that behavior. Maybe tell him ' I will give you a couple of m&ms if you take off your poopy diaper and put the poop in the toilet'. If he continues to smear the poop all over, then no m&ms(or whatever the positive reward is). This would need to be a constant thing to work on with him, reward him with the good poopy behavior( that he puts the poop in the toilet), don't reward him for the bad poopy behavior(smearing the poop all over). Then , when he is ready to sit on the toilet and poop, then give him the positive reward of hte m&ms. You can also substitute putting stickers on a posterboard for hte positive behavior instead of the m&ms, if he prefers stickers. When I potty trained my twins, I used m&ms or some kind of small candy instead of the stickers b/c they love candy alot better!
The candy motivated my kids more for the good potty behavior. It did take a long time, tho to potty both of them, pee and poop. Took about a few months for my ds(ASD) and took over a year for my dd(heart condition and dev. delays). Also, the every 2 hr. approach to put them on the potty also worked for us. And as Sue mentioned, maybe he likes the 'feel' of the poop. So maybe you can get him to work on playdough at home, to help with the craving of the "feel" of the poop.

Hope the poop problem doesn't last too long.

Rosemarie

 

[Brightsy]

Wow! I'm so glad I asked ya'll! Great advice all around. Lots of things to try out. I sure hope this is a quick passing phase. WIth the help and support from all of you my patience has risen and I'm ready for anything!

Sara

 

[SueM in MN]

Something else I just thought about that someone I knew did:
She got a remnant of tile flooring (like an 8 x 12 piece), cleaned her carpet, let it dry and then put the tile down on top of it until the problem was better.
I have no idea how much that would cost (or if it would really freak out your DS to have tile where he expects carpet), but it might be worth checking out.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Wow! I'm so glad I asked ya'll! Great advice all around. Lots of things to try out. I sure hope this is a quick passing phase. WIth the help and support from all of you my patience has risen and I'm ready for anything!

Sara

Anything????



Good Luck,
Mike

(Sorry Sara, I couldn't resist)

 

[seashoreCM]

Anything????

)

Something worth trying?

Clean him up as usual but after you are done, put some non-toxic brown dye and some anti thumb sucking (bitter tasting) liquid on his hands.

After several instances he will then associate poop with something much more unpleasant and you can better hope he won't be so messy as time goes on.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[3kidsmommy]

Personally, I would never advise doing the negative reinforcement with a child on teh spectrum (like using bitter tasting stuff...). What I would do is write a social story about where poo goes, and if you have a pet, get him involved in cleaning up after the pet. When he doesn't paint with poo, have him help you dump the poo from the diaper to the potty and praise him for doing so. Reinforce this by choosing a small candy or treat to present him with when he helps. I also would suggest trying putting on the diapers backwards (looks kind of weird, but it does work) so he can't get it off as easily until the situation is under control. The other idea I saw here that I liked was to provide him with plenty of different textures to touch..and paint with! That might help...Good luck!(and by the way, what I posted above is what made my 7 year old autistic ds stop doing the same behavior when he was 3!!)

 

[SueM in MN]

I also would suggest trying putting on the diapers backwards (looks kind of weird, but it does work) so he can't get it off as easily until the situation is under control.

That does look a bit wierd and you would not think it would work, but it does. I have seen it used very successfully with patients with brain injuries.
You would think it wouldn't work because they would figure it out, but it has nothing to do with figuring it out. It works because it breaks up their pattern/routine of taking it off.

 

[Brightsy]

Ok! Some more great advice! Thanks everyone. I'll start implementing some of these tips at home and rotate them around until we find the right one. I'll also talk to DSs pk teacher and get her involved if she can. I'll let ya'll know how things go!

Sara

 

[zumbergc]

I don't have tips for helping the problem.
However, Simple Solution may help you in the clean up process.
Its a pet clean-up product found at pet stores.
Its some type of enzymatic thing that eats up the yucky smells, and stains.
They sell it in a spray bottle, and in gallon jugs too. Try the spray bottle if it helps you out, go back for the gallon refill size.

I had a cat urine issue at one point. Tried everything to get the smell out, finally found this stuff, a work friend had mentioned it to me. It even worked 30 days after i had been trying to remove the urine smell from the carpet with tons of other products. Back in the days of an apartment.

This summer one of my cats was really sick, and lots of messes to clean up too. The simple solution came in handy. Also, i had purchased a little hand held steam like cleaner. Made cleaning the messes up easier. However, battery life isn't that great. So i'd clean up the big stuff. Spray the stuff on, let it sit for a while. Go over it with the steam cleaner. Spray some more stuff on the stain. Let it sit, let battery charge. We had stomach bile to clean up, which is a nasty stain to get off the carpet. You have to repeat the cleaning until the stain comes up, which could take 3-5 cleaning tries, all depending on how fast we say the accident.

Hope things get better,
Connie

 

[SueM in MN]

I don't have tips for helping the problem.
However, Simple Solution may help you in the clean up process.
Its a pet clean-up product found at pet stores.
Its some type of enzymatic thing that eats up the yucky smells, and stains.
They sell it in a spray bottle, and in gallon jugs too. Try the spray bottle if it helps you out, go back for the gallon refill size.
Connie

I have not used that product, but I have heard good things about it.

 

[mbb]

3kidsmommy, would never use negative reinforcement for issues like that...social stories, other appropriate textures to experiment with, and anticipation of bowel habits are long term success strategies.

Backwards diapering works too...we also used boxer underwear (the type with the long legs) over top of their Huggies, to make access to the "paint" a little more difficult!! LOL

Good luck!!

 

[Nik's Mom]

I agree on not using negative reinforcement. I doubt he is doing it to be bad. It may be that he just likes the texture . Try setting out play-doo, etc. If he shows a lot of interest, maybe that will stop the problem. Hang in there! I'm a Mom of an autistic child, so I know of the challenges.

 

[forr2grls]

wondering if your child is on any medication..

 

[leise]

Hi Brightsy.
I have a similar issue with my DS (6) who is autistic. He is toilet trained, and for the most part does his business in the loo, but every now and again we still get accidents. Usually when he is out in the garden, or very absorbed in his trains. Sometimes this summer I have caught him running into the house with a poo in his hands to chuck down the toilet, bless him. Problems arise when it's messy, and he gets very upset with the mess on his skin. He will then wipe his hands on anything that comes to hand - walls, carpets, towels, clothes...We have to be very much on the ball to check him when he's had a poo, even though it usually does get in the toilet.

It took him a long time to be able to sit on the toilet. He was able to wee standing up from about aged two, but we didn't crack the other one until he was almost 5. In the end we found that he would happily sit on the toilet, on a padded children's toilet seat ( Winnie the Pooh of course!), for ages, if he had his Leap-Pad on his lap, or his favourite book. We would put him on there whenever we felt something was imminent, then when it happened we would reward him with a sing-song and dance (the things we have to do eh?). He would love this positive re-inforcement, and eventually got the hang of it.
They just have to do it at their own pace, and they do get there in the end.

I agree that negative re-inforcement is not a good idea for autistic children. The last thing you want is to associate any kind of anxiety with toiletting, then you will have a BIGGER problem.

Good luck

 

[Ploni]

I have a non-disabled child who used to do the same thing. Put the diaper on normally, close the tabs, and then run a length of duct tape all the way around his/her waist. Get a round-tipped scissor for the diaper bag, to cut the tape for changes. Works like a charm.

 

[TiggerCate]

Don't have any advice but wanted to let you know it WILL pass, eventually. We went through this with my son off and on until he was about 8 (but most of it was when he was around 4.) It is pretty filthy and gross, though!! He is 11 and hasn't done it in a few years (although we do catch him playing with his poop sometimes on the toilet, but at least he washes his hands afterwards.)

 

[marj70]

Just wanted to add my two cents.

My son, about to turn 4 with autism (they say severe but he is semi verbal and very bright) would do that in heartbeat if he thought of it. He thinks in the short term--this is fun to play with, look at how this smears, etc. Gross, but he doesn't think in terms of "gross". I am just starting to get through that things are yucky, but he doesn't really understand. He very much lives in the moment. We are starting to potty train, and he has done the #2 twice on the carpet. I did over-react Now he is doing his business mostly in the potty, but of course is OBSESSED with flushing!

When I get angry I try to put myself in his brain and understand how he sees things. It is very, very different than how my brain works. That helps me understand the behavior and what might help to change it. Normal ways for other kids usually do not work for us. I have to think in his world and figure out what will motivate him.

By the way--I finally figured out he would potty train for a square of toilet paper and a Skittle (candy). One skittle and one square of TP for a #1, 4 skittles and 4 squares for a #2!! What motivates him? SWEETS! Verbal praise or stickers would never work with him. We have had some success using the boardmaker picture schedules, though.

Sorry for the long post about bodily functions... And I feel for you!!