Other guests who ruin the Magic...

[graygables]

I'm hoping this is a joke. Breaking a shovel on a child is ABUSE. Look it up. Also, children do not respect people for hitting them. I had my fingers burned on the stove, I was burned with cigarettes, I had my hair pulled out, I was bitten, my grandmother would dig her nails into my face and leave huge gouges, and I do not respect her one bit. I have had serious issues overcoming the abuse I endured. I have 2 college degrees, and am about to graduate with my third. I have a great daughter and a fantastic fiance, but I still have underlying problems from my childhood. My brother and sister both had drug problems. My brother almost died from drugs and alcohol, and he was this close to being thrown in jail. My sister is an abusive mother because abuse is cyclical. Children learn it from their abusive parents and pass it on. It is not okay. Children are human beings just like evryone else. Imagine how you felt when you were a child, your children feel the same way. They look to parents foro love, guidance, nuturing and support. They do not understand why they are being hit. Often they internalize it and think there is something wrong with them. Children who were abused often go on to have all sorts of problems including drugs, drinking, sex, and the inability to keep a job. They often grow up and become abusive to their children. I just took a class on family violence in college. I studied some horrific cases of abuse. One thing I learned is that many abusers to do realize they are abusive. They think they are discipling or controlling, but they are harming their children psychologically. Child abuse is defined as causing or permitting any harmful or offensive contact on a child's body; and, any communication or transaction of any kind which humiliates, shames, or frightens the child. Some child development experts go a bit further, and define child abuse as any act or omission, which fails to nurture or in the upbringing of the children. This includes hitting and, as someone else mentioned, pinching. Child abuse is a serious issue in this country, and I personally know how it feels.

I'm sorry that you had to endure those things growing up. I have 2 cousins that went through similar experiences (plus being tied up with blind cords and left all day) and you are absolutely correct, that is child abuse. I can see coming from that environment, where your "punishment" was not preceded nor followed with a loving hand, you would automatically perceive spanking, verbal reprimands, etc as abusive. My dad spanked us with a belt. He also loved us and we knew it and my brothers and I hold him in the highest honor. Those who advocate spanking generally tend to follow certain protocols (bum, backs of legs, never when angry, making sure the child understands the infraction "why they are being hit", etc).

Granted, there is most certainly abuse, and yes, abuse needs to be addressed, but make sure that the glasses you are wearing are CLEAR when you are trying to identify it. According to your definition, if I say anything to my child that isn't lovey, touchy, feely, I'm an abusive parent, and I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. When my 5yo DD shoplifted, I caused her shame and humiliation when I marched her back to the store to give the item back to the manager and apologize. Is that being "abusive"? No, it's a teachable moment and she never shoplifted again. I nurture my children with love, which includes discipline in various forms, including physical and emotional discomfort. When my dad said, "This hurts me as much as it hurts you", he wasn't kidding, and we KNEW it.

All these kids that are being "nurtured" today without discipline are the ones I worry about. They are self-absorbed, out of control, and entitlement-minded and it scares me to think they may one day be in charge of this country.

 

[AJKMOM]

Last trip, DS and I were in the McDonalds at DTD, and a man was ordering for his family. The cashier, who had an accent, rang up bottled water, but he said he wanted a glass of water (free). He was so rude to the cashier,said things like "you are a stupid foreigner", and "learn to speak English". Then, he yelled for a manager. Then, one of his kids grabbed the empty glass to get a drink, and for some reason he shouted at her. I have to say the rest of his family looked like they wanted to crawl under a table and hide from him. I just kept thinking "I wonder what he's lilke at home."

Flip side; a friend of my SIL had a kid who, when they didn't get her what she wanted at the mall, shouted "this isn't my mother, please help me, I'm being kidnapped".

 

[kimberh]

Last trip, DS and I were in the McDonalds at DTD, and a man was ordering for his family. The cashier, who had an accent, rang up bottled water, but he said he wanted a glass of water (free). He was so rude to the cashier,said things like "you are a stupid foreigner", and "learn to speak English". Then, he yelled for a manager. Then, one of his kids grabbed the empty glass to get a drink, and for some reason he shouted at her. I have to say the rest of his family looked like they wanted to crawl under a table and hide from him. I just kept thinking "I wonder what he's lilke at home."

Flip side; a friend of my SIL had a kid who, when they didn't get her what she wanted at the mall, shouted "this isn't my mother, please help me, I'm being kidnapped".

We had a similiar thing happen at Cape May's. The family was being treated so badly, by the father, that I really had to wonder what was life like at home. He litterally ruined our meal, he was so loud and demeaning to his family, that it made me Sick to my stomach. All the tables around us were looking at them, but noone said a word. I did not know what to do, I felt like the mother should speak up, but as I have thought about it sense, she was probalbly so mentaly abused herself, that she could not speak. What are we suppose to do as a bystander? Now, if I saw a human being, physically abused and I do mean abused, not a spanking, I would speak up. I have raised children to teenagers to aduthood, the poster that said, to pick your battles, is so right. I use to battle over everything, then I had to decide to let my chidren be children, the discipline came when they were definate or going to hurt themselves.

 

[AJKMOM]

We had a similiar thing happen at Cape May's. The family was being treated so badly, by the father, that I really had to wonder what was life like at home. He litterally ruined our meal, he was so loud and demeaning to his family, that it made me Sick to my stomach. All the tables around us were looking at them, but noone said a word. I did not know what to do, I felt like the mother should speak up, but as I have thought about it sense, she was probalbly so mentaly abused herself, that she could not speak. What are we suppose to do as a bystander? Now, if I saw a human being, physically abused and I do mean abused, not a spanking, I would speak up. I have raised children to teenagers to aduthood, the poster that said, to pick your battles, is so right. I use to battle over everything, then I had to decide to let my chidren be children, the discipline came when they were definate or going to hurt themselves.

Kimberh: when were you there? Sounds like it could be the same jerk. We were there Feb. 25-March 2.

 

[LISAMWDW]

So......back to other guests that ruin the magic...you won't believe this story, last fall, I took a mother/daughter trip to WDW..we were at MK, next in line at Splash Mountain and we were trying to work it out where we could ride together, you know with her in front and me behind her. Well, we let a 12 yr boy in front of us to enable us to do so. What happened next was unbelievable! A grown man cut right in front of me and my daughter, actually shoved us! I spoke up and said hey, what are you doing" and he said, "tough, that's the way it goes"! I was in such shock, the only thing I could think of what to say in front of all the kids was, "it looks like you need alittle pixie dust!" Then I pretended to sprinkle some on him!

I think back on that is it still makes me so mad!!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I didn't read through this whole thread, only the first page so forgive me if this was already stated. I really find it annoying that people feel the need to comment on a child having a tantrum. Do you even know if that child has special needs? Autism is not obvious and neither are many other special needs. Also- just because some things work for you doesn't mean they work for every child. We have 3 children (soon to be 4) and while we are strict with them they each respond differently to different things. So instead of shaking your head at a child's poor behavior why not be a little sympathetic to Mom and Dad that they are trying to at least not create a child who gets whatever they want at the slightest whimper. Every person has a bad day or moment- young and old. I have seen more obnoxious adults than children at WDW. Sorry for the rant but I cam so tired of people getting mad at parents who are actually trying their best.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I've actually been known to turn to children/teens in these situations and say, "You will NOT speak to an adult like that." It usually shocks the bejeezers out of *everyone*, generally emboldens the adult, and shuts the kid down. Many times, it seems that they aren't even aware that other people are watching and they are SO embarassed when they realize. And, no, I've never been threatened or punched, I just put on my English Teacher Eyes, give them "The Look" and have at it. Most of the time, you can tell a brat from a child with a disability if you look carefully and observantly enough. Part of the problem is that no one feels like they can speak up anymore, not even the parents. God forbid that little Johnny get his ego bruised.

Not for nothing- but if you think you are going to discipline my kids you are in for a rude awakening. That is completely rude and none of your business. We will take care of our kids as we see fit. You say Most of the time you can tell a brat from a child with a disability. The key word here is MOST. What if you are wrong? I think that is nervy and quite honestly you are even ruder than the disrepectful child.

 

[Princess Bella Luna]

So......back to other guests that ruin the magic...

LOL Thanks for being able to stay on subject! Just let everyone else catfight and we can stand gawk don't forget to give sympathies for THEIR mommies and daddies!

PS What a jerk!

 

[papabear4]

A grown man cut right in front of me and my daughter, actually shoved us! I spoke up and said hey, what are you doing" and he said, "tough, that's the way it goes"! I was in such shock, the only thing I could think of what to say in front of all the kids was, "it looks like you need alittle pixie dust!" Then I pretended to sprinkle some on him!

What a great idea! I think I'll introduce this concept to our family, so if any of us is getting grumpy on our trip, we can use the pixie dust method. Maybe on strangers, too, although we'll have to be careful to be completely sincere (without a hint of sarcasm or that would sort of defeat the purpose).

 

[Princess Bella Luna]

What a great idea! I think I'll introduce this concept to our family, so if any of us is getting grumpy on our trip, we can use the pixie dust method. Maybe on strangers, too, although we'll have to be careful to be completely sincere (without a hint of sarcasm or that would sort of defeat the purpose).

Better yet - how about bringing little fashion glitter powder with you then you can do it for real! You can buy cosmetic glitter or glitter powder at places like Claires boutiques. A little bit of glitter would most certainly make the littler ones smile and forget about the near tantrum they throw.

But yeah - I'd say look out on tossing stuff on strangers.

 

[Princess Bella Luna]

I didn't read through this whole thread, only the first page so forgive me if this was already stated.

Oh yeah - at LEAST five times .... (one or so in each page LOL). Save your breath, you got a LOT of people on your side.

 

[Unregistered]

Not for nothing- but if you think you are going to discipline my kids you are in for a rude awakening. That is completely rude and none of your business. We will take care of our kids as we see fit. You say Most of the time you can tell a brat from a child with a disability. The key word here is MOST. What if you are wrong? I think that is nervy and quite honestly you are even ruder than the disrepectful child.

If your child or any child is being so disruptive that it is disturbing other people and the parent is not speaking up than if a stanger does maybe the parent will pay more attention to raising their child to be respectful in public. It is not rude of a stranger to do that, it is brave. It is rude for a parent to not address a disrespectful child.I don't believe physical discipline is ever required. you said "we will take care of our kids as we see fit" well if you allow your children to be disrespectful and rude than you as a parent have not done your job and are Not doing your job very well.

 

[Unregistered]

I didn't read through this whole thread, only the first page so forgive me if this was already stated. I really find it annoying that people feel the need to comment on a child having a tantrum. Do you even know if that child has special needs? Autism is not obvious and neither are many other special needs. Also- just because some things work for you doesn't mean they work for every child. We have 3 children (soon to be 4) and while we are strict with them they each respond differently to different things. So instead of shaking your head at a child's poor behavior why not be a little sympathetic to Mom and Dad that they are trying to at least not create a child who gets whatever they want at the slightest whimper. Every person has a bad day or moment- young and old. I have seen more obnoxious adults than children at WDW. Sorry for the rant but I cam so tired of people getting mad at parents who are actually trying their best.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that your best just isn't good enough or isn't working. If a child is throwing a temper tantrum they have not been taught the proper skills to express what they want or are feeling. This is a reflection on the parents not the child. I raised 4 children and not one of them was ever spanked, they were taught from an early age respect and manners. They have all completed college and are starting families of their own. I NEVER had one of my children throw a temper tantrum in public or in private because i gave them what most parents don't. RESPECT. Most parents feel their children are property and that they can control them into behaving, you cant control another person, child or adult. Teach a child to respect others and themselves and they don't feel the need to lash out.

 

[kevschickee]

Theres a bid difference between abuse and spanking. When I was younger if I did 1/2 of what the kids do now a days I would have been in big trouble. My kids WILL get spankings if they are needed, they will not speak to me or any other adult in a rude mannor and they will have respect for others. In the OP my mother would have smacked me plain and simple she was being rude and had no right to speak that way.

 

[Unregistered]

I'm not going until 2008, any advice?

 

[robin09]

If your child or any child is being so disruptive that it is disturbing other people and the parent is not speaking up than if a stanger does maybe the parent will pay more attention to raising their child to be respectful in public. It is not rude of a stranger to do that, it is brave. It is rude for a parent to not address a disrespectful child.I don't believe physical discipline is ever required. you said "we will take care of our kids as we see fit" well if you allow your children to be disrespectful and rude than you as a parent have not done your job and are Not doing your job very well.

All I can say is wow! You need to spend a week with special need children. Until you live life with a child with special needs, and yes I'm speaking of autism/aspergers, don't go around judging parents and their child. Meltdowns happen, just like ice melts in the heat. Sometimes you just have to wait till things cool down. I also notice you are unregistered, apparently you don't want anyone to know who you are and how judgemental you are.

Now back to our regularly scheduled tantrums!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

If your child or any child is being so disruptive that it is disturbing other people and the parent is not speaking up than if a stanger does maybe the parent will pay more attention to raising their child to be respectful in public. It is not rude of a stranger to do that, it is brave. It is rude for a parent to not address a disrespectful child.I don't believe physical discipline is ever required. you said "we will take care of our kids as we see fit" well if you allow your children to be disrespectful and rude than you as a parent have not done your job and are Not doing your job very well.

Well- if my kids are disrespectful to me that is my concern. Not yours. Sometimes kids have tantrums and parents ignore the bad behavior so the kid knows he/she is not going to get any attention for acting like a brat. Also- you still have no idea if a child is special needs so your comments can do more harm then good.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

There is nothing wrong with admitting that your best just isn't good enough or isn't working. If a child is throwing a temper tantrum they have not been taught the proper skills to express what they want or are feeling. This is a reflection on the parents not the child. I raised 4 children and not one of them was ever spanked, they were taught from an early age respect and manners. They have all completed college and are starting families of their own. I NEVER had one of my children throw a temper tantrum in public or in private because i gave them what most parents don't. RESPECT. Most parents feel their children are property and that they can control them into behaving, you cant control another person, child or adult. Teach a child to respect others and themselves and they don't feel the need to lash out.

God Bless! You are a perfect parent! None of your kids ever had a meltdown or a tantrum or just a plain old bad day. I do respect my children and they respect me. They are also children and not adults. You also stated that cannot control anyone and I completely agree. We teach our kids that there are many ways to get your point across but I cannot control if they wake up on the wrong side of the bed and are cranky that day. I don't hit my kids, and I rarely raise my voice. But yes, they do occassionally have cross moments. Everyone does, young or old. I did not post on this to fight with anyone, I just wanted to point out that a stranger's view of what is happening isn't always the reality.

Back on topic- we had a man step over my children's carriage so he could cross a crowded walkway that wasn't moving so he could get some picutres of something at AK. I looked at him and said "Are you kidding me?" He got all annoyed at me meanwhile his ding-a-ling was in my kids' faces!!! It wasn't like we were blocking anything by stopping, we had nowhere to go, everybody was at a standstill because Devine was wrapping herself around something. Believe me- we did not want to be stuck there. We had had enough of AK that day to begin with and were trying to get out.

 

[Marion]

I NEVER had one of my children throw a temper tantrum in public or in private because i gave them what most parents don't. RESPECT. Most parents feel their children are property and that they can control them into behaving, you cant control another person, child or adult. Teach a child to respect others and themselves and they don't feel the need to lash out.

My goodness.... how wonderful it must be to be perfect AND to have given birth to, not one, not two, not three, but FOUR perfect children! None of whom have EVER had a tantrum... I am truly in awe here.

That said, the rest of us mere mortals, for the most part I'm sure, try our very best to raise our children in the same manner... teaching respect and love and kindness.

In my experience (albeit limited, having only raised three imperfect children to adulthood), young children tend to have meltdowns and tantrums because they have reached their limit in a given situation. Their previously learned communication abilities go right out the window and in frustration, they lose control. Frankly, I've been known to have meltdowns myself, lost the ability to communicate effectively and burst into tears. Now I would blame a premenopausal fluctuation thing there, but you would say it's lack of respect?

Anyway, I suppose my point is that most people are doing their best with raising their children, in their own styles and no one way is the 'right' way. If everyone would quit getting their panties in a knot everytime they encounter a situation THEY would handle differently, and just show some understanding... or just WALK AWAY instead of being so bloody judgemental, the world would be a much more pleasant place.

Have a magical day.

 

[LISAMWDW]

[QUOTEBetter yet - how about bringing little fashion glitter powder with you then you can do it for real! You can buy cosmetic glitter or glitter powder at places like Claires boutiques. A little bit of glitter would most certainly make the littler ones smile and forget about the near tantrum they throw.

But yeah - I'd say look out on tossing stuff on strangers.
][/QUOTE]



That is a great idea!