Over 3,500 people quarantined on Diamond Princess cruise

[FigmentSpark]

Health care in the US is undeniably expensive. But when Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland had a heart attack, he came to the US for surgery, he did not stay in Canada. I have colleagues who have package deals set up with local hotels to do quick turnaround knee replacements for Canadians (who pay out of pocket) because we're close to the border and they can't get their knees done.

Each country has problems with their healthcare system- I know, I spent 10 days in London learning about the NHS, brainstorming problems with them, and met with health care people from all over the world. All countries struggle to pay for it one way or the other- with taxes, or out of patient's or their employer's pockets, or with rationing. Part of it is that we're blessed with technology and treatment that we never had before. I personally am alive and kicking due to dreadfully expensive drugs most non-US countries health plans would never pay for.

Bottom line is every country has problems, it all costs a horrific amount, and the solutions differ from place to place, depending on their populations. There is no way an American would ever put up with the NHS, heck we won't even share a room. Canadians are shocked at what health cares costs here, but we can give our patients practically any technology available on the face of the planet. And so it goes. If there is a perfect system, I've yet to see it.

To clarify without spreading misinformation, Danny Williams went to the U.S. to have his surgery because his case required a very specialized type of surgery that was not available anywhere in Canada at the time (2010). He did so on the advice of his doctors, not to circumvent any part of the healthcare system.

Please stop (not you in particular.... everyone in general) using him as an example to imply we have a failing healthcare system.

 

[monkeydawn]

Does anyone else feel like this thread has derailed big time? Please start a healthcare in various countries thread if that is what you want to discuss.

 

[QueenElinor]

In more pertinent news, the Meriviglia has docked in Cozumel. They say that no one aboard, including the affected crew members, have COVID19, which is technically true as none have been tested for it.

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/coronavirus-concerns-cruise-ship-msc-meraviglia-mexico

 

[QueenElinor]

That does not make it true, technically or otherwise. It's like me saying I don't weigh over 200 lb, because I haven't stepped on a scale.

You did get your press conference. Good news, there is no problem and we have a science denier in charge.

What have I done to offend you? I clearly am not happy with how the situation has unfolded on the Meriviglia- there really is no daylight between your viewpoint and mine. And the reference to "my" press conference.... I'm sorry if you're angry, we all are a bit unsettled right now. Don't direct that at me when I'm not doing anything wrong.

 

[AquaDame]

What have I done to offend you? I clearly am not happy with how the situation has unfolded on the Meriviglia- there really is no daylight between your viewpoint and mine. And the reference to "my" press conference.... I'm sorry if you're angry, we all are a bit unsettled right now. Don't direct that at me when I'm not doing anything wrong.

Agreed - we're all walking a fine line here. Please continue to share your thoughts, but without pointing fingers and being sarcastic at one another please.

 

[Karin1984]

I just went to a pharmacy to pick up some desinfectants. They were running out but the new problem is the rise in prices. The masks used to be 0.25 euro per piece, now 3 euro. She didn't to want to ask her customers these new prices, but she has to as she is charged higher prices as well.

She advised it was more important to keep your hands clean, do not touch others if not necessary etc.
Last night on a talkshow here, the host welcomed her guests with an elbow greeting. It looked weird but its the little things.

 

[QueenElinor]

I just went to a pharmacy to pick up some desinfectants. They were running out but the new problem is the rise in prices. The mouth caps used to be 0.25 euro per piece, now 3 euro. She didn't to want to ask her customers these new prices, but she has to as she is charged higher prices as well.

She advised it was more important to keep your hands clean, do not touch others if not necessary etc.
Last night on a talkshow here, the host welcomed her guests with an elbow greeting. It looked weird but its the little things.

It is the little things, and those are hard habits to break. I talked with our parish priest about all the hand-holding and handshakes & hugging we do and he asked everyone to stop last Sunday. I'm not sure they listened. Yesterday at church people on each side of me grabbed my hand literally out of the air. I chalked it up to them not being regulars since it was Ash Wednesday.

But churches are like the worst places for transmitting germs (right up there with hospitals)- two outbreaks, one in Singapore and one in Korea have been traced to churches. We have to do better, all of us. We have to be more conscious everywhere we go.

 

[MarkLT1]

It is the little things, and those are hard habits to break. I talked with our parish priest about all the hand-holding and handshakes & hugging we do and he asked everyone to stop last Sunday. But yesterday at church both people on each side of me grabbed my hand literally out of the air. I chalked it up to them not being regulars since it was Ash Wednesday.

But churches are like the worst places for transmitting germs (right up there with hospitals)- two outbreaks, one in Singapore and one in Korea have been traced to churches. We have to do better, all of us. We have to be more conscious.

Our church has (since the H1N1 scare a few years back) moved to "fist-bump" greetings during cold-flu season. Also, our pastors mention during service (during the "greet your neighbor" portion) to not take offense if people don't want to fist-bump back, and to not make any contact if you feel any symptoms of a cold coming on. The church has really taken to this, and it seems to be an "ok" middle-ground. They have also put up foaming hand cleaner dispensers in all of the common areas. Our family has been particularly cautious over the last couple of years, as my dad was fighting cancer, but we have noticed many others in the church doing the same.

 

[QueenElinor]

Our church has (since the H1N1 scare a few years back) moved to "fist-bump" greetings during cold-flu season. Also, our pastors mention during service (during the "greet your neighbor" portion) to not take offense if people don't want to fist-bump back, and to not make any contact if you feel any symptoms of a cold coming on. The church has really taken to this, and it seems to be an "ok" middle-ground. They have also put up foaming hand cleaner dispensers in all of the common areas. Our family has been particularly cautious over the last couple of years, as my dad was fighting cancer, but we have noticed many others in the church doing the same.

That is great! I swear my church is the huggiest-kissiest church ever. I think my DH (who is the doc for dozens and dozens of them) is going to have to get up there and tell them to let it go, just for while!

 

[MarkLT1]

I swear my church is the huggiest-kissiest church ever. I think my DH (who is the doc for dozens and dozens of them) is going to have to get up there and tell them to let it go, just for while!

Our church was that way as well. For us, it took our lead pastor making a statement, and then during the greeting time during service, explicitly stating to "fist bump only." From what I recall, that first year, it took a few weeks to really get people into the habit. I'd recommend having a chat with your pastor/priest, and see if something can be said during service. People look to leaders, and in a church, your pastor/priest is definitely a leader. (And I believe that by offering an alternative "contact greeting" that is safer, such as a fist bump, people still feel that connection, versus just stating that there will be no more hugging/hand-shaking, etc..)

 

[Dreams&wishes]

It is the little things, and those are hard habits to break. I talked with our parish priest about all the hand-holding and handshakes & hugging we do and he asked everyone to stop last Sunday. I'm not sure they listened. Yesterday at church people on each side of me grabbed my hand literally out of the air. I chalked it up to them not being regulars since it was Ash Wednesday.

But churches are like the worst places for transmitting germs (right up there with hospitals)- two outbreaks, one in Singapore and one in Korea have been traced to churches. We have to do better, all of us. We have to be more conscious everywhere we go.

In our church in the UK nothing has been said, which I'm not happy about especially because here they drink the wine.

In regards to Italy my family is very upset because my brother in law is a policeman who works in a public office and together with the army policeman aren't allowed to wear masks or gloves so to give a normality "look". Which is annoying because if he gets it everyone from his children to my elderly parents bwill get it.
Also in Milan masks aren€8 each...

 

[QueenElinor]

Our church was that way as well. For us, it took our lead pastor making a statement, and then during the greeting time during service, explicitly stating to "fist bump only." From what I recall, that first year, it took a few weeks to really get people into the habit. I'd recommend having a chat with your pastor/priest, and see if something can be said during service. People look to leaders, and in a church, your pastor/priest is definitely a leader. (And I believe that by offering an alternative "contact greeting" that is safer, such as a fist bump, people still feel that connection, versus just stating that there will be no more hugging/hand-shaking, etc..)

Oh, our pastor tried. As I mentioned in my first post about it, he told them last Sunday, after I spoke with him last week. But from what I could tell yesterday, no one listened (although he did not offer an alternative, which I agree people need). I'm hoping it was just because it was Ash Wednesday, it was a full house and probably a lot of folks who were not there on Sunday. Like you say, it is going to be a process. We need to get on it now, it needs to be habit BEFORE the virus enters our community.

Edit: I will mention your idea of a first-bump to him. I do think if people were presented with an alternative, they'd use it, but they need an idea.

 

[QueenElinor]

Ugh. As the dashing Lando Calrissian said, "This deal keeps getting worse all the time."

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...onavirus-patient-for-days-california-hospital
And I must offer a major mea culpa to @Starwind because I said this wouldn't happen. But, by golly, the CDC ignored clinicians (and not just any clinicians, but specialists and sub-specialists at a major teaching hospital!!) and denied the request for the test for several days because it didn't meet their criteria. I am utterly shocked and don't know what to say about that.

Kudos to the staff & administrators at UC Davis, for not giving up.

 

[AquaDame]

Ok, this thread has once again deviated to talk of the disease outside of cruise ships - churches, politics and unassociated news articles, oh my!

I'm going to take the opportunity now that the quarantine has been completed on the Princess and we have the other thread for more general chit chat about the disease to close this one.