Poly Tower decision and RIV restrictions

[davidhr]

If I was a direct buyer of RIV (and I am not) I would feel like Disney conned me into believing that all additional DVC buildings going forward would have resale restrictions on them. This was certainly the impression that I had when they announced RIV.

Everyone here said that resale restrictions were bad for owners but eventually all resorts would have them, but now it looks like eventually is a lot farther in the future than most of us expected.

Resale restrictions only help DVC in the very long run and is any executive going to make a 20, 30, 40, 50 year plan when they most likely are only around for 5 years or so.

Being honest, I'd only feel this way if the sell a resort with a later expiration than RIV without the restrictions. I didn't care about VGF and I wouldn't care if they decide to add it to the current Poly as I can see those as expansions with shorter lifespan.

Now, if they announce a standalone new development with its full 50 year (personally what I consider a new full contract), I might have a problem with how they sold Riviera (of course, if they decide to remove the restrictions, then I'm ok with that).

So far the only case has been VDH, and that one has the same restrictions. Fort Wilderness seems to be in the same situation.

Personally I'd love if they get rid of the restrictions for everything. But I'd have to give them a point, because that would make resale attractive again for me.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

This is a good way of putting.

Restrictions aint dead folks. CFW will definitely have them. Thats the carrot (or stick if you think the other way) for direct points. Sure you can buy used poly points right now and get into the shiny new tower, but you wont have access to RIV, VDH, or CFW, or whatever is the next new one, something where reflections was gonna go probably.

Exactly their strategy.

 

[MomOTwins]

I am a RIV owner and yeah, it sucks that they are selling new resorts without restrictions. I figured after 2042 if we wanted to sell RIV, every resort would have restrictions so ours wouldn’t matter so much. This was very much the messaging from DVD at the time.

But what pisses me off wayyyy more is what this means as a direct purchaser.

RIV and Poly are by far my favorite resorts, and when I bought Riv as my first contract and added on this summer at VGF, both direct contracts, I wrestled with buying Poly resale instead.

What convinced me to buy direct in both cases was the clear assertions that only direct be used at future builds like Poly2.

I hate the idea of “walking” points to get a reservation at 7 months I think walking is unfair to those planning trips the days ahead of mine.

This “announcement” means that I am pretty much screwed at 7 months. It meant a lot to me that only direct points could be used at 7 months at new constructions. Now I find out I’m going to have to compete against literally every DVC resale owner at any resort to book there at 7 months, and that’s after every existing Poly1 owner who can book at 11 months. And worse yet, I would have been one of those Poly1 folks if I had saved some money and bought Poly resale. So yeah, this is BS. As I do feel conned out of a perceived 7 month advantage to booking direct that has amounted to nothing.

I am still holding out hope that maybe the rep mispoke or was misinterpreted and they will be separate associations. After all, as many ppl in this thread so gleefully remind us suckers who bought Riviera/direct points based on what we were told, nothing anyone at DVD says is real unless it is in writing. I will await the official announcement. And maybe I’ll have to get over my convictions and start (ugh) walking points at 7 months. I guess we’ll see.

 

[Sandisw]

How? Because you can access new rooms at an existing resort? Was that also the case with BPK added to VGF?

DVD is being consistent, BPK was added to existing, and poly tower is being added to existing. Anything new (IE RIV, VDH, CFW, whatever is new after) will have restrictions.

DVC hasn't done anything to alter their course here or done anything to damage prior buyers.

In my mind they have…the conversion of BPK was easily explained in my mind as a direct buyer. The fact that this ground up build, that is no different than a new resort with the exception of where it sits, means they backtracked….and for me, it is enough to not believe they won’t be wishy washy in the future.

Maybe the next new build will be at CR and become a BLT 2? Or more rooms to AKV? Or any other existing resort.

And, since DVD has not come out to say tht CFW will have restrictions, no one can say they will…heck,,this new trust assocation that has formed throws everything we know out the window again.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I am a RIV owner and yeah, it sucks that they are selling new resorts without restrictions. I figured after 2042 if we wanted to sell RIV, every resort would have restrictions so ours wouldn’t matter so much. This was very much the messaging from DVD at the time.

But what pisses me off wayyyy more is what this means as a direct purchaser.

RIV and Poly are by far my favorite resorts, and when I bought Riv as my first contract and added on this summer at VGF, both direct contracts, I wrestled with buying Poly resale instead.

What convinced me to buy direct in both cases was the clear assertions that only direct be used at future builds like Poly2.

I hate the idea of “walking” points to get a reservation at 7 months I think walking is unfair to those planning trips the days ahead of mine.

This “announcement” means that I am pretty much screwed at 7 months. It meant a lot to me that only direct points could be used at 7 months at new constructions. Now I find out I’m going to have to compete against literally every DVC resale owner at any resort to book there at 7 months, and that’s after every existing Poly1 owner who can book at 11 months. And worse yet, I would have been one of those Poly1 folks if I had saved some money and bought Poly resale. So yeah, this is BS. As I do feel conned out of a perceived 7 month advantage to booking direct that has amounted to nothing.

I am still holding out hope that maybe the rep mispoke or was misinterpreted and they will be separate associations. After all, as many ppl in this thread so gleefully remind us suckers who bought Riviera/direct points based on what we were told, nothing anyone at DVD says is real unless it is in writing. I will await the official announcement. And maybe I’ll have to get over my convictions and start (ugh) walking points at 7 months. I guess we’ll see.

FWIW, I don’t think you’re a sucker. If you have direct RIV points you’re golden through 2070. You can stay everywhere through 2070 AND you have RIV home resort advantage, which is very important at RIV.

 

[Brian Noble]

eventually all resorts would have them, but now it looks like eventually is a lot farther in the future than most of us expected.

I think the date at which "eventually all resorts" are restricted is the same as it was before: 2068. (Well, technically 2066, because after that there is only one non-restricted resort left, which makes it de facto restricted.)

Until and unless they offer for sale an unrestricted DVC resort that expires after CCV, they have not moved the temporal goalposts.

Err, what @davidhr said.

 

[Genie+]

Maybe DVD is more clever than we give credit. Maybe their strategy is to get us all worked up and make great arguments why Poly2 needs to be restricted. Better optics for when Poly2 is announced separate association.

 

[tidefan]

I am a RIV owner and yeah, it sucks that they are selling new resorts without restrictions. I figured after 2042 if we wanted to sell RIV, every resort would have restrictions so ours wouldn’t matter so much. This was very much the messaging from DVD at the time.

But what pisses me off wayyyy more is what this means as a direct purchaser.

RIV and Poly are by far my favorite resorts, and when I bought Riv as my first contract and added on this summer at VGF, both direct contracts, I wrestled with buying Poly resale instead.

What convinced me to buy direct in both cases was the clear assertions that only direct be used at future builds like Poly2.

I hate the idea of “walking” points to get a reservation at 7 months I think walking is unfair to those planning trips the days ahead of mine.

This “announcement” means that I am pretty much screwed at 7 months. It meant a lot to me that only direct points could be used at 7 months at new constructions. Now I find out I’m going to have to compete against literally every DVC resale owner at any resort to book there at 7 months, and that’s after every existing Poly1 owner who can book at 11 months. And worse yet, I would have been one of those Poly1 folks if I had saved some money and bought Poly resale. So yeah, this is BS. As I do feel conned out of a perceived 7 month advantage to booking direct that has amounted to nothing.

But, how is this any different than the first 26 to 27 years of how DVC operated anyway?

 

[Cfabar1]

Maybe DVD is more clever than we give credit. Maybe their strategy is to get us all worked up and make great arguments why Poly2 needs to be restricted. Better optics for when Poly2 is announced separate association.

I know... this is hilarious.... I thought for years people were hoping restrictions should be reduced/gone away.

Not having restrictions at Poly is a great thing for 90%+ of DVC owners....

 

[MomOTwins]

But, how is this any different than the first 26 to 27 years of how DVC operated anyway?

I didn’t own DVC for the past 26 years—I bought into DVC in the past 3 years based on what the reps were saying about its present and future (at a MUCH higher point price than 27 years ago)—so why would I expect it to scrap that and go back to its past?

I think overall the sentiment of us recent direct purchasers is that there has been a bit of a bait and switch. The story they weaved of why you should buy direct has been pretty severely undermined by management’s actions.

Plus, I’d argue 7 month availability is a very different kettle of fish than it was 20+ years ago thanks to all the points rental agencies.

 

[wiihoo888]

I didn’t own DVC for the past 26 years—I bought into DVC in the past 3 years based on what the reps were saying about its present and future (at a MUCH higher point price than 27 years ago)—so why would I expect it to scrap that and go back to its past?

I think overall the sentiment of us recent direct purchasers is that there has been a bit of a bait and switch. The story they weaved of why you should buy direct has been pretty severely undermined by management’s actions.

Plus, I’d argue 7 month availability is a very different kettle of fish than it was 20+ years ago thanks to all the points rental agencies.

this. We spoke with the agents. Whether they shifted positions or not since that time, it feels like we were a bit hoodwinked.

Once again, I get why others are excited. I would be as well. A lot has been taken away from the “legacy” owners, and its cool that something new will be available to them. It is just bit of an about face from what we were told would be happening with future builds. It is also smack in the face of every reassurance we got. Can’t help but feel some sort of way

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Rule One of Fight Club Timeshare Buying: Verbal representations do not matter.

Yeah this. Did you know that a $50k Westgate timeshare will be worth $250,000 on the resale market within 3 years? You would if you went to a Westgate presentation!

 

[Cfabar1]

Yeah this. Did you know that a $50k Westgate timeshare will be worth $250,000 on the resale market within 3 years? You would if you went to a Westgate presentation!

WOW..... I should definitely go buy one of those....

If anyone hasn't, go watch the Queen of Versailles... You'll learn these people will say anything to make a sale!

 

[Jlo85]

I feel like direct purchasers should always proceed with a buyer beware warning. We always warn that membership extras and discounts can be given and taken away. Just as easily, access (or in this case, perceived exclusive access for direct buyers) can also be taken away. Buy where you want to buy, and don’t buy direct unless you are willing to pay a premium with the risk of potentially getting nothing in return.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Not having restrictions at Poly is a great thing for 90%+ of DVC owners....

Yeah, this. Hopefully DVD will ignore the loud angry minority of Riviera owners currently writing angry letters demanding that the unwashed heathen resale purchasers be kept out of the “rightfully theirs” poly2 tower.

To everyone complaining… the advice is the same as it always was, buy where you want to stay. You want to be able to get into the poly tower? Buy poly points. Then you’ll be able to get into the poly tower and not have to worry about 7 month availability.

 

[tidefan]

I didn’t own DVC for the past 26 years—I bought into DVC in the past 3 years based on what the reps were saying about its present and future (at a MUCH higher point price than 27 years ago)—so why would I expect it to scrap that and go back to its past?

I think overall the sentiment of us recent direct purchasers is that there has been a bit of a bait and switch. The story they weaved of why you should buy direct has been pretty severely undermined by management’s actions.

Plus, I’d argue 7 month availability is a very different kettle of fish than it was 20+ years ago thanks to all the points rental agencies.

I get this, I really do. However, I think that one's perspective is definitely driven by their own experiences. Those of us that have been in the program for awhile have aren't seeing anything new here, and in fact, this is how we have known DVC to operate for most of our existence.

FWIW, as an original VGF1 owner, I've made it well known that I am still a bit salty about how they tacked on VGF2 to the original association, and I definitely wasn't the only one. I remember when, say, if you went on a DCL cruise and went to the presentations, the guides would just say "Don't ask us, just ask all of the DVC members on board what they think" when they went to make a sale (that was the real reason they gave out all of the "free" DVC hats on cruises). Somewhere between distinction of resale/direct, introduction of restricted resorts with RIV, the 2020 lock-off premium fiasco, and VGF2, I think that they have lost a lot of goodwill with existing members. On my last 2 cruises, I never heard any of the DVC sales staff tell people to go ask existing members anymore, mainly because they are definitely now giving their opinion and it isn't always favorable to pushing new DVC sales.

I think that PVB2 is sort of the opposite of VGF2. It's probably a net positive to existing members, versus it being a net negative in the VGF2 situation. I wonder if maybe they finally made the decision that it wasn't maybe the best thing to do to give existing members another reason to question the program.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Hopefully DVD will ignore the loud angry minority of Riviera owners currently writing angry letters demanding that the unwashed heathen resale purchasers be kept out of the “rightfully theirs” poly2 tower.

Are you ok? Who has said anything even close to this? In fact, everyone who’s upset has been demanding that there been no restrictions at all, not the opposite.

Gaslighting people into thinking they’re “loud and angry” for no reason sucks, especially when we’ve vocalized legitimate reasons for our grievances. And we're not attacking anyone who benefits from this (I’m included here), our annoyance is with the lack of clarity and what we feel like was being mislead by those above. I’m happy for you you don’t feel like that. Maybe work on understanding it from someone else’s perspective.

 

[tinkerbell2023]

I bought RIV direct because I wanted to stay at Riviera, have 11 month booking privileges and have them forever... until I die or the contract ends. I didn't buy there because I wanted to sell later, or because I wanted them to have X amount of value later. There are lots of people like me out there who just aren't mad, are just using their points and just don't care about the resale restrictions.

I might also buy Poly tower because finally poly will have the room types I want and I want 11 month booking privileges.

You buy DVC to stay at DVC resorts and you buy where you want to stay, that's it. I just don't understand all the frustration I guess.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I bought RIV direct because I wanted to stay at Riviera, have 11 month booking privileges and have them forever... until I die or the contract ends. I didn't buy there because I wanted to sell later, or because I wanted them to have X amount of value later. There are lots of people like me out there who just aren't mad, are just using their points and just don't care about the resale restrictions.

I might also buy Poly tower because finally poly will have the room types I want and I want 11 month booking privileges.

You buy DVC to stay at DVC resorts and you buy where you want to stay, that's it. I just don't understand all the frustration I guess.

Hey that’s a totally fair feeling. I love RIV and I probably won’t sell either. I guess if I had to really break down why I’m annoyed it’s that people have constantly, if lightly and mostly in jest, poked fun at those who’ve bought RIV direct for a variety of reasons and it feels like DVD just agreed with those people.

In reality, it’s really not a HUGE deal, sure, I can agree with that. In fact, I personally benefit on the onset from this decision but sometimes the principle does matter.

 

[tinkerbell2023]

Hey that’s a totally fair feeling. I love RIV and I probably won’t sell either. I guess if I had to really break down why I’m annoyed it’s that people have constantly, if lightly and mostly in jest, poked fun at those who’ve bought RIV direct for a variety of reasons and it feels like DVD just agreed with those people.

In reality, it’s really not a HUGE deal, sure, I can agree with that. In fact, I personally benefit on the onset from this decision but sometimes the principle does matter.

Well you are welcome to sit with me on the Riv Direct happy people "buddy bench" and be happy with the fact that we own at a beautiful resort and get to book there at 11 months out ;-)

I agree that transparency is better with selling timeshares, I don't know that's how timeshares anywhere have ever worked though. I guess I have learned that I can wonder and worry about what things may or may not be in the future, or just be happy with what I bought, be happy to book it at 11 months, use it, and love it every time I stay there.