Problem with the firefighters contract

[tom1944]

Looks like controlling the board because it screws Disney is not as easy as it would seem.



The issue isn't that DeSantis' board backed out of the deal, it's that the details of the cozy arrangement became public. That has put pressure on new District Administrator Glen Gilzean to back out of the deal, which some see as a reward for the union supporting DeSantis.
“This contract got into the hands of city and county leaders across the state of Florida,” Shirey wrote. “Glen had been receiving calls left and right yelling at him that he couldn’t sign this agreement, and how it was going to screw all of the taxpayers in those areas because they would have to raise taxes just to be able to recruit and stay even somewhat competitive with the new market.”
Had Disney still been in charge, the pay raises could have been passed off as a rich company overpaying for workers. It would have been an outlier that likely would not have given other firefighters and EMTs leverage.
With a DeSantis-controlled board, the governor is not only not giving agreed-upon raises to a major political ally, but he's also seen as blocking that precedent from helping other firefighters and EMTs -- groups that have been firmly in his camp -- from making more money.
Call it an unforced error by the governor, but the reality is that actually governing the former RDIC means making hard choices. The governor could have left those to Disney and made the company the bad guy with workers who don't get what they want, but by taking over, DeSantis has made himself the villain to some of his biggest supporters.

 

[OKW Lover]

An interesting take on the situation. I'm still not clear why the union was having difficulty negotiating with the old board. I know that unions in general seek to increase their membership rolls. Employers in general seek to keep labor costs low and limit the number of employees.

It often comes down to a question of is it better to pay overtime to the existing employees vs adding staff to have adequate coverage. There is a point where overtime just doesn't help the situation because of employee burnout. But adding an employee brings a significant cost beyond just the additional body to be paid. There are also costs relating to benefits (health care, pension, etc) that need to be included in the evaluation.

 

[DefnotDLav]

Seems like they got burned by thinking the new board was going to give them a 30% raise.

Things always sound better in theory...

I halfway feel badly for them.

 

[HopperFan]

They should just make a deal with Orange & Oseola Counties and merge the fire department personel with them. What is good for one is good for all! It also means employees and shifts could be interchanged when needed. "Reedy" can then just sublet the land/equipment to them or sell it to them over time. I mean those counties are the formal backup to the on property firehouses so why not just merge the department for consistency in pay, operations, management etc.

This would be a save face for the "Reedy" folks too and no longer would they have to deal with the wants of this small group who want to be paid more than everyone else but yet rarely have to do anything dangerous. They have always complained about their lack of "employees and equipment" so now they can be part of a bigger more equipped fire department.

 

[wkrainey]

They should just make a deal with Orange & Oseola Counties and merge the fire department personel with them. What is good for one is good for all! It also means employees and shifts could be interchanged when needed. "Reedy" can then just sublet the land/equipment to them or sell it to them over time. I mean those counties are the formal backup to the on property firehouses so why not just merge the department for consistency in pay, operations, management etc.

This would be a save face for the "Reedy" folks too and no longer would they have to deal with the wants of this small group who want to be paid more than everyone else but yet rarely have to do anything dangerous. They have always complained about their lack of "employees and equipment" so now they can be part of a bigger more equipped fire department.

This issue is all the specialty training and equipment that Disney uses for it's rides. Disney has a boat/lift system for Skyliner evacuations on the lake. That's specialty equipment and training that not everyone in Orange & Oseola counties needs. The reality is Disney and it's size should have it's own fire department district, which it does. Also, Disney was having issues with the union when the skyliner was installed because of the added workload potential if it had to be evacuated. The FD wanted additional pay for the added training it would require to do evacuations.

 

[HopperFan]

This issue is all the specialty training and equipment that Disney uses for it's rides. Disney has a boat/lift system for Skyliner evacuations on the lake. That's specialty equipment and training that not everyone in Orange & Oseola counties needs.

Completely disagree with this other than, yes Disney has a boat/lift system. And it would take nothing to train others to use it if they haven't already. The first thing Disney does when there is a monorail or SkyLiner issue is call in their backup - Orange County Fire Department, and their equipment.

Regarding rides - Disney is not the only theme park in these counties and they actually have the easiest rides to evacuate. Disney builds most rides with good exit strategy and most rides can be evacuated with CMs. Want to talk about difficult rides to evacuate lets look at Universal 2 parks, SeaWorld, FunSpot 2 parks, ICON Park with the highest most dangerous rides to evacuate if they can't get them down.

The Disney FD actually likely has the lowest level and smallest number of members trained for difficult evacuations over Orange and Osceola Counties, and City of Orlando does assist.

The reality is Disney and it's size should have it's own fire department district, which it does.

It doesn't need it's own department, it only needs firehouses located strategically on property. Many of us live in MASSIVE counties who were served by county department. Disney is a pretty low risk area which is why they have a lower number of responders ... and they have the backup of big systems. Merging them would only strengthen them.

Also, Disney was having issues with the union when the skyliner was installed because of the added workload potential if it had to be evacuated. The FD wanted additional pay for the added training it would require to do evacuations.

I followed it all quite closely and yes, Disney had not expanded the Reedy Creek dept when the added more parks and hotels, they didn't plan to expand when they built the SkyLiner. What the department used as argument, and on surface many had concern (including me), was that they SkyLiner, if it had to be evacuated, would need more responders than they have. What we all ignored was they have the backup of a huge department that could call in all the help they needed in that instance.

I don't believe anything changed with their complaints, and we've had no massive evacuation. IF they argued they weren't being paid while trained for additional skills I would tend to not believe them. And even if it were true, what they really got was a stronger resume without paying for it.


There is no need for an independent fire department, when the surrounding ones have more responders, more equipment, more diverse training and better support. Like many things that Reedy Creek provided back in the day because there was no local services, the need is now gone.

 

[wkrainey]

Completely disagree with this other than, yes Disney has a boat/lift system. And it would take nothing to train others to use it if they haven't already. The first thing Disney does when there is a monorail or SkyLiner issue is call in their backup - Orange County Fire Department, and their equipment.

Regarding rides - Disney is not the only theme park in these counties and they actually have the easiest rides to evacuate. Disney builds most rides with good exit strategy and most rides can be evacuated with CMs. Want to talk about difficult rides to evacuate lets look at Universal 2 parks, SeaWorld, FunSpot 2 parks, ICON Park with the highest most dangerous rides to evacuate if they can't get them down.

The Disney FD actually likely has the lowest level and smallest number of members trained for difficult evacuations over Orange and Osceola Counties, and City of Orlando does assist.

It doesn't need it's own department, it only needs firehouses located strategically on property. Many of us live in MASSIVE counties who were served by county department. Disney is a pretty low risk area which is why they have a lower number of responders ... and they have the backup of big systems. Merging them would only strengthen them.


I followed it all quite closely and yes, Disney had not expanded the Reedy Creek dept when the added more parks and hotels, they didn't plan to expand when they built the SkyLiner. What the department used as argument, and on surface many had concern (including me), was that they SkyLiner, if it had to be evacuated, would need more responders than they have. What we all ignored was they have the backup of a huge department that could call in all the help they needed in that instance.

I don't believe anything changed with their complaints, and we've had no massive evacuation. IF they argued they weren't being paid while trained for additional skills I would tend to not believe them. And even if it were true, what they really got was a stronger resume without paying for it.


There is no need for an independent fire department, when the surrounding ones have more responders, more equipment, more diverse training and better support. Like many things that Reedy Creek provided back in the day because there was no local services, the need is now gone.

Sure, Disney COULD be part of 2 separate counties that would have to work in conjunction with each other to service WDW. It's doable, but an inefficient and stupid decision to run emergency management that way. Let's talk reality, Disney has a +180k hotel room capacity plus staffing to consider in a space the size of New York. The size and population alone make eliminating the district and merging with another a bad one.


Claiming that Disney's district is small and understaffed isn't a positive here. The solution would be to add the needed staff.

Also using the argument that no massive evacuation has happened is a fools argument. I think we can all say that we're happy that no emergency has happened, however, I think we can all also say that they should be prepared if they do need to do one.

Receiving additional training without paying for it in exchange for a stronger resume is a cheap excuse. They're in a specialized field that requires top quality candidates and they should be paid for additional training, not encouraged to take the training and seek employment elsewhere. I've seen that sort of logic in action with school bus drivers. They were training had additional duties added with little/no additional pay, and they all left for other bus driving jobs with better pay. The quality of personnel decreased and everything suffered. Again, going back to other arguments, we're wanting highly training individuals in an emergency with the tools needed on hand, not poor quality needing backup.

The neighboring departments have more firetrucks and the same general training yes. however, they don't have the specialized tools or training required for Disney specific options. Everyone could be trained, but it's not worth it when fewer can do the job.

 

[HopperFan]

Sure, Disney COULD be part of 2 separate counties that would have to work in conjunction with each other to service WDW. It's doable, but an inefficient and stupid decision to run emergency management that way. Let's talk reality, Disney has a +180k hotel room capacity plus staffing to consider in a space the size of New York. The size and population alone make eliminating the district and merging with another a bad one.


Claiming that Disney's district is small and understaffed isn't a positive here. The solution would be to add the needed staff.

Also using the argument that no massive evacuation has happened is a fools argument. I think we can all say that we're happy that no emergency has happened, however, I think we can all also say that they should be prepared if they do need to do one.

Receiving additional training without paying for it in exchange for a stronger resume is a cheap excuse. They're in a specialized field that requires top quality candidates and they should be paid for additional training, not encouraged to take the training and seek employment elsewhere. I've seen that sort of logic in action with school bus drivers. They were training had additional duties added with little/no additional pay, and they all left for other bus driving jobs with better pay. The quality of personnel decreased and everything suffered. Again, going back to other arguments, we're wanting highly training individuals in an emergency with the tools needed on hand, not poor quality needing backup.

The neighboring departments have more firetrucks and the same general training yes. however, they don't have the specialized tools or training required for Disney specific options. Everyone could be trained, but it's not worth it when fewer can do the job.

Not looking for an argument, but I don't agree with most your points particularly the thought that the large County department that is responsible for Universal, SeaWorld, ICON Park, Fun Spot and more is an inferior underequipped undertrained department to Reedy Creek. They likely are much more trained because they have much more difficult systems to deal with in their district.

Reality is Disney doesn't need an independent fire department and could highly improve if they merged. THERE IS NO NEED for the extra personnel to sit around waiting for the big unlikely emergency when they have all the manpower they need from the County.

PS ALL of the Parks and almost ALL of Disney's land is in Orange County. A big, well equipped well trained fire company. All that is in Osceola is WWOS and AllStars. I'm sure they can handle that, and even then if there are major events at WWOS I'm sure EMS is on site. Reedy Creek is nothing special.

Most Monorail evacuations are done by Orange County Fire & Rescue because ....