Sensory Processing - Diagnosis and school??

Well, my DD is 5 (almost 6) and although your son is much older I just feel I have to chime in here. My frustration with the system is that there just isn't any defnite diagnostic tool for any Dr to say "that is definitely what the problem is". That's why you hear so much about misdiagnosis, etc. My DD sees a Developmental Pedi, a regular Pedi, an OT, and a child Psych all with differing opinions on what the "real" problem is. It is so very frustrating. I feel like I've already been on a wild goose chase of trying this med, then this med, and on and on most of the time with no help and usually with additional "side effects". It is a very frustrating ordeal, as I am sure most all of you know.

My DD is tactile defensive one minute and tactile seeking the next. She is practically anti-social because of it as she usually ends up accidentally hurting others due to her seeking. Her teachers are frustrated, I am frustrated and most of ALL she is frustrated. I just want to help her have the best life possible but I fear this "realm" of disorders: SPD, DSI, ADD, DCD, OCD is just nothing that can be accurately diagnosed. I hope and pray for a change in the future and also that SPD will be recognized in the DSM as a disorder.

Until then, we are all just trying to do the best for our children! And I truly believe that we, as parents who live with the child every day, are the best judges of what might be the problem and what might help. You can listen to advice and research on your own but you must rely on your intimate parental knowledge of your own child to make the best decisions.

Good Luck! I hope you get some help and your son continues to improve! :grouphug:

I hear you! It IS frustrating. Particularly dealing with schools and their personnel...these folks are oftentimes not very open-minded, forward thinking people. They've got their little boxes they like to stuff children into, whether they fit or not. Then they basically throw away the keys, leaving you stuck!

I can't tell you the number of people who've I've talked to who have had their child mislabeled by the schools. A couple parents I know were told their children were mentally retarded....these same kids are now off to college, one on an academic scholarship, studying to be a developmental pediatrician, probably so he can help stop the madness of what almost happened to him. What these kids really had was a language disorder...once their language came in, their "mental retardation" went away.


Have you read The book The Mislabeled Child? Fascinating stuff it there by two pediatric neurologists. They are seeing mislabeled children ALL THE TIME!
 
I call myself a neurovariant as I could easily fall into several categories. I agree that there is not set tests to show specifically what someone has unlike TB, pneumonia, broken bones, and the flu. As we neurovariants get older we tend to adapt to society and struggle as best we can. This then leads to some clues being hidden like picking and chewing while other issues might not even be considered deviant like draining liquid from a plate, avoiding certain food, or like my mother who has lived in darkness for years with a 40 watt light bulb.

It is so easy to stick kids and even adults into labels even if the person does not totally fit. What if someone is 20% OCD and 80% spectrum? What if the person is allowed to let the OCD get out of control to the point that it is 90% OCD and 10% spectrum? What if society shuns a person and makes them an outcast because of a behavior like chewing, nail biting, excessive talking, etc.? That person may hide the behavior thus changing the diagnosis. I look at the list for SID/SPD sensory issues and most fit me to a T and some took me a while to uncover as I had suppressed those things as some things are not allowed in public.

I hope everything turns out alright and never give up hope. Never stop studying and looking for answers and help. It will be a never ending battle between the NV and the NT who cannot comprehend what it is like to be NV. It will be a never ending battle to get things done properly. It is a sad thing to say but that is what I see over and over from people on these boards. It can be NV related or can be other health issues.

Sending you hugs and dole whips
Laurie:woohoo::grouphug:
 
I will say after seeing DS's most recent report card I kind of think his original diagnosis of inattentive ADD probably is accurate. I also think he probably had "normal" 7th grade boy stuff happening. Distractions from peer stuff and maybe some "crush on a girl" stuff that wouldn't be impacted by Focalin. Increasing his dosage DID improve his grades in 5 out of 6 classes, so it appears to have been helpful. I know he is ready for summer - we are ALL ready for summer.

The neuropsychologist suspects some sort of "executive function" delays may be part of DS's problem. We'll see what the tests show. :)

It is hard to know what all is involved sometimes. Nothing is very straightforward, and then differing opinions from professionals make it all worse.
 
It is interesting that your neurpsychologist suspect EF delays. This is actually not at all the same as EF differentials. Just to give you the basics, delays are caused by any of a great number of factors, and limits the processing efficiencies of a typically “wired” mind. EF differentials come from a mind that is “wired” significantly differently. In the case of spectrum genetics, this most commonly means that instead of a linear, discriminatory memory and processing system, the individual have a non-discriminatory, non-linear (often seen as visual) memory and processing system. In the simplest practical form information is taken in and instead of filtering it and only “storing” what is decided to be “pertinent” everything is attempted to be remembered (the whole picture). The discrimination and “preprocessing” is so innate (automatic) for most typical people that they do not even realize that they are doing this. Analysis is also done if a similar manner where a big “picture” is built from all known facts, not just those initially “filtered” and outcomes are based on this broader “data set”, this is why it is surmised that it take significantly more brainpower (IQ) to effectively “run” a mind with this neurovariation. This differential is often confused with inattention, but is really at its core just a processing differential. Since much of society and particularly our educational system is heavily biased to linear input and processing, this causes significant issues for people unless adaptations and accommodations are made for these variations. This good news is this differential is why such a very high percentage of inventors, engineers, theorists and other highly creative people have indications of these autism genetics.

A good auditory processing evaluation is usually the first place that indications of this variation show clinically measurable indications. Unfortunately like so many things in this area the science if advancing very rapidly so it is hard to find clinicians who are fully versed.

bookwormde
 
I call myself a neurovariant as I could easily fall into several categories. I agree that there is not set tests to show specifically what someone has unlike TB, pneumonia, broken bones, and the flu. As we neurovariants get older we tend to adapt to society and struggle as best we can. This then leads to some clues being hidden like picking and chewing while other issues might not even be considered deviant like draining liquid from a plate, avoiding certain food, or like my mother who has lived in darkness for years with a 40 watt light bulb.

It is so easy to stick kids and even adults into labels even if the person does not totally fit. What if someone is 20% OCD and 80% spectrum? What if the person is allowed to let the OCD get out of control to the point that it is 90% OCD and 10% spectrum? What if society shuns a person and makes them an outcast because of a behavior like chewing, nail biting, excessive talking, etc.? That person may hide the behavior thus changing the diagnosis. I look at the list for SID/SPD sensory issues and most fit me to a T and some took me a while to uncover as I had suppressed those things as some things are not allowed in public.

I hope everything turns out alright and never give up hope. Never stop studying and looking for answers and help. It will be a never ending battle between the NV and the NT who cannot comprehend what it is like to be NV. It will be a never ending battle to get things done properly. It is a sad thing to say but that is what I see over and over from people on these boards. It can be NV related or can be other health issues.

Sending you hugs and dole whips
Laurie:woohoo::grouphug:

mechurchlady:
It is very interesting to read about these issues from your viewpoint: the view of an adult having struggled with these issues for so long. Would you mind if I ask you a few of your opinions?

Looking back on your life and the struggles you've encountered, what could your parents have done to help you with your struggles? Treating you as normally as possible? Sheltering you from excessive stimuli? Teaching you that you were different and teaching you not to be ashamed of it? I am very interested to see with your hindsight what suggestions/guidance you might give a parent of a NV child.

I know that every child is different but with your long history dealing with these issues what did you find most helpful? OT? Meds? Psychological counseling? What else?

I, like most of us here, have very limited understanding and knowledge of what is like to be a NV. I suffer watching my daughter endure her struggles, especially during an extremely hard day when she almost acts like a wild animal backed into a corner: her reasoning seems to fade and give way to primal self-preservation instincts. I don't know how to calm her at these times. I don't know what is best for her, maybe you could help me with your insight?

I really appreciate your viewpoint!

Thanks!
:grouphug:
 
mechurchlady:
It is very interesting to read about these issues from your viewpoint: the view of an adult having struggled with these issues for so long. Would you mind if I ask you a few of your opinions?

Looking back on your life and the struggles you've encountered, what could your parents have done to help you with your struggles? Treating you as normally as possible? Sheltering you from excessive stimuli? Teaching you that you were different and teaching you not to be ashamed of it? I am very interested to see with your hindsight what suggestions/guidance you might give a parent of a NV child.

I know that every child is different but with your long history dealing with these issues what did you find most helpful? OT? Meds? Psychological counseling? What else?

I, like most of us here, have very limited understanding and knowledge of what is like to be a NV. I suffer watching my daughter endure her struggles, especially during an extremely hard day when she almost acts like a wild animal backed into a corner: her reasoning seems to fade and give way to primal self-preservation instincts. I don't know how to calm her at these times. I don't know what is best for her, maybe you could help me with your insight?

I really appreciate your viewpoint!

Thanks!
:grouphug:


My husband has Asperger's and is diagnosed with SPD as well. If you like, I can pose these questions to him for you as well.
 


mechurchlady:
Looking back on your life and the struggles you've encountered, what could your parents have done to help you with your struggles? Treating you as normally as possible? Sheltering you from excessive stimuli? Teaching you that you were different and teaching you not to be ashamed of it? I am very interested to see with your hindsight what suggestions/guidance you might give a parent of a NV child.

I know that every child is different but with your long history dealing with these issues what did you find most helpful? OT? Meds? Psychological counseling? What else?

I, like most of us here, have very limited understanding and knowledge of what is like to be a NV. I suffer watching my daughter endure her struggles, especially during an extremely hard day when she almost acts like a wild animal backed into a corner: her reasoning seems to fade and give way to primal self-preservation instincts. I don't know how to calm her at these times. I don't know what is best for her, maybe you could help me with your insight?

I really appreciate your viewpoint!

Thanks!
:grouphug:
Even 10 years ago many neurovariant kids were undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. At the time I was born there was not much done for kids like me. My mother back then could have fought for testing instead of letting me see the school psychologist and do testing but get nothing done. I know that she did not understand that anything was wrong with me because she does not know she is damaged goods. My father was out of the loop and I feel he moved in to keep an eye on me as them two rarely got along.

what can a parent do for their kid? FIGHT, LEARN, STUDY THE KID.

Why does the kid fidget, bite, fight, cry, etc.? Protect the child from the triggers then slowly build up the triggers so the child will not live a sheltered life. I go into my darkness when things are not fair, when I am sick, and when I am tired. I stopped play Pogo's Monopoly as it is so NOT FAIR. I rest and walk away from things when tired. I know my triggers and people like Sue, Mary Jo, bookworm, Becky, Nicole and others here know my weakness and are there for me as are others online on other sites. I get by with a little help from my friends.

Meds can help IF the child is properly labeled with the right diagnosis and the problems are clearly a result of neurovariancies. A child may be hyper because they are reacting to stress, from food allergies and high sugars. A child might not do homework because the kid needs glasses, hearing aids, has dyslexia, hurts when they write with a pen, or maybe is passive aggressive. Occupational therapy may be needed to help the kid deal with the neurovariances. Therapy is key to helping neurovariant kids. Adjusting schooling so the kid thrives helps. If a kid has OCD like tendencies then work with that or if the kid is hyper then work with that instead of making the kid fit the mold. You have a round peg in a triangular world so you need to slowly make that round peg fit into that triangular world.

Yes, it does hurt me very much to see my mother curled up like a child about to be beat. Yes, it does hurt emotiionally when I repeat the same thing over and over and over or when her priorities are over mine and she throws fits if I go to the bathroom before getting the newspaper. IT HURTS. All you can do is get the right counseling, therapy, prevent as much as is possible and then roll with it and celebrate the little good things. I am so happy that mom made dinner without me.

As an adult neurovariant who slipped through the system I have a few things to say. I am always in trouble because I was not given coping skills as a child. Children neurovariants can be rewired if given the proper therapy, in theory. When people hunt me down and push my buttons I get in trouble. I have to deal with road rage and got that under control. I learned to use a plastic straw to deal with nervous energy. I barely finished 2-year college and should have a great job earning $50000 a year but failed as I was short, fat and ugly and talked funny and was weird. Maybe if I had training I would have gone far but I shut down. If I had the training as a baby or toddler then I would have been able to deal with social issues better.

There are a lot of what-ifs out there for me and that is the past. Now I work on researching my neurovariancies, learning tricks to get around the neurovariancies, and with help on this board have started rewiring my brain so I can handle social issues better. A strong network of strong people helps. I focus on my good points and remind myself I am not a bad person but just miswired. On this board there is a lot of ego stroking and reminders that we have had a small step forward in our lives or the lives of those around us. That so helps the neurovariant, the social group that rolls with the punches then comes back and remolds the neurovariant to fit the triangular world while making the neurovariant feel good and feel that they can fit into the world somewhere.

'hugs
Laurie:hug:
hope that answers your questions
 
Even 10 years ago many neurovariant kids were undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. At the time I was born there was not much done for kids like me. My mother back then could have fought for testing instead of letting me see the school psychologist and do testing but get nothing done. I know that she did not understand that anything was wrong with me because she does not know she is damaged goods. My father was out of the loop and I feel he moved in to keep an eye on me as them two rarely got along.

what can a parent do for their kid? FIGHT, LEARN, STUDY THE KID.

Why does the kid fidget, bite, fight, cry, etc.? Protect the child from the triggers then slowly build up the triggers so the child will not live a sheltered life. I go into my darkness when things are not fair, when I am sick, and when I am tired. I stopped play Pogo's Monopoly as it is so NOT FAIR. I rest and walk away from things when tired. I know my triggers and people like Sue, Mary Jo, bookworm, Becky, Nicole and others here know my weakness and are there for me as are others online on other sites. I get by with a little help from my friends.

Meds can help IF the child is properly labeled with the right diagnosis and the problems are clearly a result of neurovariancies. A child may be hyper because they are reacting to stress, from food allergies and high sugars. A child might not do homework because the kid needs glasses, hearing aids, has dyslexia, hurts when they write with a pen, or maybe is passive aggressive. Occupational therapy may be needed to help the kid deal with the neurovariances. Therapy is key to helping neurovariant kids. Adjusting schooling so the kid thrives helps. If a kid has OCD like tendencies then work with that or if the kid is hyper then work with that instead of making the kid fit the mold. You have a round peg in a triangular world so you need to slowly make that round peg fit into that triangular world.

Yes, it does hurt me very much to see my mother curled up like a child about to be beat. Yes, it does hurt emotiionally when I repeat the same thing over and over and over or when her priorities are over mine and she throws fits if I go to the bathroom before getting the newspaper. IT HURTS. All you can do is get the right counseling, therapy, prevent as much as is possible and then roll with it and celebrate the little good things. I am so happy that mom made dinner without me.

As an adult neurovariant who slipped through the system I have a few things to say. I am always in trouble because I was not given coping skills as a child. Children neurovariants can be rewired if given the proper therapy, in theory. When people hunt me down and push my buttons I get in trouble. I have to deal with road rage and got that under control. I learned to use a plastic straw to deal with nervous energy. I barely finished 2-year college and should have a great job earning $50000 a year but failed as I was short, fat and ugly and talked funny and was weird. Maybe if I had training I would have gone far but I shut down. If I had the training as a baby or toddler then I would have been able to deal with social issues better.

There are a lot of what-ifs out there for me and that is the past. Now I work on researching my neurovariancies, learning tricks to get around the neurovariancies, and with help on this board have started rewiring my brain so I can handle social issues better. A strong network of strong people helps. I focus on my good points and remind myself I am not a bad person but just miswired. On this board there is a lot of ego stroking and reminders that we have had a small step forward in our lives or the lives of those around us. That so helps the neurovariant, the social group that rolls with the punches then comes back and remolds the neurovariant to fit the triangular world while making the neurovariant feel good and feel that they can fit into the world somewhere.

'hugs
Laurie:hug:
hope that answers your questions
Thank you so much for your candid response. I want to get my DD all the help she needs but so often I feel as though all roads lead to further confusion. My DD doesn't deal with things most people deal with easily-a lot like what you mention with things "pushing your buttons". Sometimes leaving a place throws her into a frenzy, or not being able to write like everyone else, or noise disturbs her far greater than most. I struggle with wanting to shelter her and wanting to make her fit into the mold as you put it. We do OT, see psychologists, specialists, try meds all with very little improvement. What may work wonders one week, ceases to work at all the next. I read a book on SDP and say "that's it!" then I read a book on ADHD and say "that's it" and so on and so on. Her Dev Pedi says it's a developmental coordination disorder and anxiety disorder, then the OT says SPD, the child psych says OCD and ADHD. UGGGH! I just want the severe episodes to get better no matter what it's called. I guess you are saying to not give up, be an advocate for the child, study the child. I will do that. I guess I just struggle with the desire for someone to say "Aha! I know what will help". You're right, having people who can somewhat understand the difficulties helps, that's why I turn to DISboards and other SPD groups with mothers who understand and don't dismiss everything to lack of discipline.

I hope things get better for you. I REALLY appreciate your response and your viewpoint.
 
Thank you so much for your candid response. I want to get my DD all the help she needs but so often I feel as though all roads lead to further confusion. My DD doesn't deal with things most people deal with easily-a lot like what you mention with things "pushing your buttons". Sometimes leaving a place throws her into a frenzy, or not being able to write like everyone else, or noise disturbs her far greater than most. I struggle with wanting to shelter her and wanting to make her fit into the mold as you put it. We do OT, see psychologists, specialists, try meds all with very little improvement. What may work wonders one week, ceases to work at all the next. I read a book on SDP and say "that's it!" then I read a book on ADHD and say "that's it" and so on and so on. Her Dev Pedi says it's a developmental coordination disorder and anxiety disorder, then the OT says SPD, the child psych says OCD and ADHD. UGGGH! I just want the severe episodes to get better no matter what it's called. I guess you are saying to not give up, be an advocate for the child, study the child. I will do that. I guess I just struggle with the desire for someone to say "Aha! I know what will help". You're right, having people who can somewhat understand the difficulties helps, that's why I turn to DISboards and other SPD groups with mothers who understand and don't dismiss everything to lack of discipline.

I hope things get better for you. I REALLY appreciate your response and your viewpoint.


Hi. I have been reading your posts and you said something that I so understand. I also want someone to finally know how to help my DD.

Background: I have two children DS 5 and DD 3. Both have SPD. With DS he is sensory seeking and he is easy to understand with what he needs for his body, sometimes the seeking part can drive me nuts, but I at least understand some ways to help him.

With DD she is SPD, verbally apraxic, has poor muscle tone and vestibular problems. To me most of this is different forms of the the SPD, so basically she has modulation problems, vestibular problems and motor planning problems. My problem is with the professional people that evaluate her. One group said she has no SPD traits at all, her OT at the time was livid over this evaluation. I have had two speech therapist agree that she has Apraxia, and two other people tell me she doesn't, there reason didn't make lots of since. Like the neurologist that said she couldn't be apraxic because she has other cognitive delays. So no child with a cognitive delay can have a motor planning problem, didn't make any since to me. But in all of this I really just would like for my DD to talk, she is 3.5 and has never said mama. It is nice at times that I know that others know what I am dealing with. I have so many friends that just don't understand it is refreshing when people do understand.
 
That would be much appreciated! Thanks!

J wrote this out for you, and I'll interject a few of my own comments in parenthesis and italics, (like this). We both got a little verbose in our answers, sorry about that! I hope that it's helpful.

"Thank you for giving me an opportunity to answer those questions for you I'm always open to any more.

And before I start, I want to make it clear that I mean no offense to any parents who may do things differently than I think is ideal. Everyone does what they think is best. I'm just giving my opinion on my own experience with Asperger's. Hopefull it will help. :)

I was not formally diagnosed with Asperger's until much later in life. But, I was diagnosed with a ton of other problems that, all wrapped up, equalled Asperger's. I'll start with the positive things my mother did for me. She was a huge advocate for me at school. I didn't even realize the things she was doing for me until I reflected on them as an adult. I was in speech from the second day of kindergarten onward, and when certain things caused me trouble (I still cannot tumble, cartwheel, or flip over a bar) she would insist that after whatever evaluations they were performing on all of the kids were done that I be left alone about it. I grip my pencils improperly, and the teachers forced that issue until I resisted handwriting. My mother bought pencil grips to avoid the callouses on my hand and said that was enough of that matter. Oddly enough, I have managed to function just fine as an adult without tumbling and my handwriting has never been called messy."

(he has the most perfectly neat handwriting I've ever seen)

"She made certain I was tested for the gifted and talented program via verbal testing, instead of the usual written test, and when there were teacher conferences (in 3rd grade I, a Jew, wrote a graphic story about the cruxifiction when asked to do a paper on my favorite part of Easter) she did not blow it out of proportion. She did, however, make me rewrite my 5th grade paper on "What I want to give the world for Christmas." My original answer was truthful. "I want to give the world a second chance because we have messed it all up with all of the wars and death and dying, etc." It turned into "I would like to give the world a Coke." She still has both. My whole point in this is she knew which battles to fight, and how to fight them, so that I got both a good education and to be ME. It worked. I graduated from Duke University."

(May I also interject, he is smart as all get-out. I have been trying to encourage him to go back to school to pursue something he's been talking about for as long as I've known him- his masters and doctorate.)

"She bought me books, fostered my love of animals by allowing me to bring in every injured or homeless animal I saw, and let me leave places that were too loud. I am a lot like your daughter. Sounds send me into fits to this day. I just can't process it. My wife can probably tell you enough to fill a book on my fear of thunder and lightning cracks. It's debilitating. While my mother helped me avoid it, my dad did the opposite. He wanted me to be normal. He still wants me to be normal. He would set off firecrackers to help keep me from being a baby.

Which brings me to what I am afraid will offend some. No amount of therapy is going to change how your children think. It just teaches them to pretend they are normal. And while yes, there are times you need to know how to function in society, I think it's crazy to think we should always adapt. The biggest thing I would say is teach your kids to stand up for themselves. Sometimes it's ok to ask someone else to adapt to them. Not every time, but sometimes. A huge example of this is with my medical procedures (I have aplastic anemia and systemic lupus). I did not know I could say how I preferred things. Once I learned I could ask them to adapt, they did, and it works better for all of us."

(I want to elaborate on this a bit. We are very fortunate in that we have two advocates in the hospital we go to, our closest friends are both radiologists there. They help ensure that some of these things happen. He only sees doctors there that are familiar with him, and how his mind works. Only one nurse is allowed to draw his blood, because she is the only one who knows how to do it without blowing out half a dozen veins. All his procedures are explained in advance, no matter how small or simple. Very easy, simple adjustments that have turned hospital visits from a total nightmare into something routine and easy to accomplish.)

"The caged animal thing is truly how it feels. I literally freeze when I'm in a stressful situations with no way out. Being told I have to do something often causes the same trouble. When possible, give her choices. If something has to be done, allow her input into HOW it can be done. Guidance is important, of course, but mandates stress everyone.

Also, the tantrums are almost never about what is presently happening. Asking leading questions can help. Allow her to talk about it, but start off easily and then dig down. My wife is wonderful at that, so I'll let her give you her tips."

(It took me a while to learn this one. I try to follow a pattern. It doesn't always work, but more often than not it does. I take him someplace quiet, usually into our room. We close the door, sit or lay on the bed, and I talk to him soothingly, and ask a few leading questions while he calms down enough to express himself to me. We talk through the things that are bothering him. It's generally one core issue that may have planted itself days ago, with other little things here and there, that can be ultimately set off by something as seemingly insignificant as knocking over a glass.

The most important thing to remember is, while that tantrum may not be immediately logical to you, once you coax the true source out of your child, it'll all make sense. I'm going to use an example I observed in one of my brothers, who is on the moderate to severe end of the spectrum, a few months ago.

He had a baseball game to go to, and when asked to put on his uniform, he began screaming and crying about how itchy the shirt is, and how he could NOT wear two shirts in spite of the cool weather and the assurance that many other children would be wearing two shirts as well. This progressed to what probably was, to my stepmother, incoherent screaming, but as I listened I picked up on the source. That morning, his brother had been mean, and threatened to break his favorite toy. His other brother had told him that he was bad at baseball and wouldn't be able to play on his own. The fact that the uniform was uncomfortable was just the culmination of two other far more upsetting events earlier in the day, and not really the source of the tantrum at all.

We all experience to a certain extent. We all have days when everything seems to go wrong. The difference being, we have some way to unwind and relax and push it all out. Those on the spectrum typically lack the natural ability to do that. They need to be guided through the process by someone who is patient enough to do so.)


"Schedules. I live by them. I put the most mundane things on them, like "wake up". I like checking things off as I get to them and knowing what's coming next. It literally gets me through the day. I even schedule my free time! Too many things at once makes things "noisy" in my head. By breaking down even the most complex task according to what I think are important steps, I get things done.

I also review social interactions. It helps me figure things out. This is a big thing I'd recommend any parent assist their kids in doing. I may rehash something for days, but once I understand why it happened and how it happened, I can go about thing easier the next time. I struggle the most with people saying one thing and doing another. I do not mean circumstances changing, making what happens change. I mean the lying. Even the little white lies throw me for a loop. If ever I find a way to deal with that, I will let you know.

A word of caution. Meds can be very dangerous, especially when being given for things like adhd. They can make other things, like asperger's, worse. If you, as a parent, feel they are doing nothing, or hurting, stop them. I was recently put on one that made me want to crawl out of my own skin. She can't verbalize that feeling to you yet, so it may come out in other ways. Counseling helps if you get the right one. The wrong ones can be awful. I'll tell you my most recent horror story if you're interested."

(May I say, it's a doozy. It's fortunate I was unable to be present at that appointment, or Dr Goodfornothing would have needed a new nose.)

"I'm always willing to help, so feel free to ask me any questions you would like."
 
I'm going to say that Saveaquarter's husband sounds a lot like myself... actually it scares me because nobody believes me that "that is me."

I'm so good at coping that when I can't cope any more and meltdown, it doesn't make sense to anyone. I do nearly everything Saveaquarter does to make it through my days from the lists to the talking out meltdowns (except I'm not sensitive to noise) because that's the only way I've ever done things... I've learned what works and stuck with it. My success is through hard work and a lot of luck.

I told an ex boyfriend who was going to grad school for social work at the time that I thought I had Aspergers/SPD. He laughed and said "noway." Not that that is the final say, but it definitely sticks out in my head.

But, I don't know if I should even try to get someone to take this suspicion seriously- any thoughts? Definitely huge positives and negatives!
 
It would be nice for the world to adapt to me but I gave up on that as a kid. Few people are willing to adapt to me and my quirks. I was so nice to eat at the Festival a dinner were I made it through without being much of an outcast. I gave up on wishing for the world to adapt to me.

I adapt as that is the only way for me to survive. Schools gave up on trying to make a fat kid do gymnastics. Very few compromises if any. I just floated as best as I could.

Jake has strong words that I myself could never say. It is hard for me to explain things as I am so busy hiding my neurovariancies or trying to swim in a sea of hungry sharks. I find that some chat rooms help calm me down. Being around people helps me as I need that so much. I also make a ton of notes and list and even have a program for auto filling passwords and stuff.

I always thought it was traumatic birth but now finally know mom has SID too. My handwriting is atrocious and mom had to type my homework in junior high school. I love what Jake wrote as it is nice to hear from a person who has Asperger or Autism eloquently explaining things in ways I cannot. I am abnormal for neurovariants because there was not testing, I hide a lot of things, and have adapted to life so as to appear normal.

It is sad that the NT society demands we fit their world but they will not fit into our world. I think the bestest thing about neurovariants is that they tend to be nicer people who are more in tune with nature/God/whatever and see things differently than the NT who demands people wear make up, have perfect hygiene, perfect clothes, perfect manners, talk in certain volumes and tones, and other stuff that I do not understand how it is so blooming important. Neurovariants tend to focus on the inner being than the outer person.

Big hug to Jake for a great post.

Laurie

==============

I watched with Mom Lion King 1 1/2. The memories overwhelmed me to tears. Why am I so bitter toward neurotypicals? Beacause since I was in kindergarden they have made me want to be part of them. School books never talked about characters that were different. They all were white, mostly male, and middle class at least. We never saw the ghetto, barrio or trailer parks in our books. We rarely got expsoed to neurovariants or so called abnormal behavior like nail biting, OCD, rocking and picking.

One of the school outcasts was V. and eh was a towhead tal lanky boy who tended to walk on his toes. He pretended to be a monster but he was the sweetest little boy. 18 years later he commited suicide in jaill after being accused of horrid and unthinkable crimes. He was driven to the darkness by kids who made fun of him, taunted him, made him an outcast, and even shoved him into trash cans. He met Robby who scared everyone in school. Most of us do not remember much but that Robby was scary and few if any pictures exist of him. Robby led V. into the satanic world and from there V. met the scum of the earth.

I ama very bitter person as I have been on the receiving end and have seen a sweet little boy become a monster because of him being shunned, an outcast and abused by classmates.

Honestly why do I crave being normal? After seeing so many suffer since I was a toddler. Probably because that was the norm and what I was supposed to want to be. Like women who used to pluck their eyebrows then paint them over, that was the norm.

I like talking to bookworm here and to Jake at Pogo because they are real people who do not care about how I smell or look but my God given gifts. I have some wonderful gifts from being a neurovariant. I just need to see them and remember I am a good person and need to forgive those who hurt V and drove him to the darkness. If anyone wants to know who V is please PM me. He has been gone nearly 30 years now, sigh, and I remember his golden days when he still was a kid and teen not a monster.

I hope this is not to graphic, mods if it is please feel free to delete the post.
I miss V so much and blame myself for not standing up for him.:sad1:
 
Saveaquarter,

Thanks for getting your DH to write this (and him for writing it) and for your editorial clarifications and experiences.

I really give a concrete example of how much difference a parent can make in a child’s life (even back in the “stone ages”).

Even with having “lived” much of what we discuss here at some level and having a, what am sure to many, is an annoying level of certainty in my opinions, it is nice to “hear it” from someone else with similar experiences.

As to people lying thing, I have rationalized it to a great extend but lying (all the way from white lies to the ones that are done with to intent to harm) still from a core emotional level is quite “grating on the nerves”. Rationally I know that it is innate and is virtually a necessity due to the social constructs of the “clannish/tribal” wiring and the overwhelming drive to have ongoing societal social contact, but is still seems sad and a highly inefficient way to live.

I have a question for your DH, does he find pronouns (or missing but assumed ones) to be an inaccurate way to communicate and require additional effort to place them in the proper (socially based) context, and for us then subject to misassumptions, which can lead to “awkward” moments. Working with DS has made me realize how often I can not make this distinction with certainty and how in many situations I avoid “joining in” since a misinterpretation can be quite “socially awkward”. I think I drive my mostly NT DS crazy with this since if he asks me “can you put my shoes on” I have to of course give him the aspire answer of “I do not think they will fit me” (with a smile). He does not think it is funny.

Oh yea, he must have had a special mom if she was able to get him to give up on telling the world how stupid they were and that they needed to “get their act together” when it comes to war and lack of concern about death and dying, no way I was letting that go at that age.

Thanks again and let DH know that he can be sure that it is very helpful to parents and that it will make a “difference” in at least a few children’s lives.

Oh yea, when I get around to writing a book (along with about 100 other “retirement projects”) is it OK if I anonymously quote him.

Bookwormde

Sorry to the OP as I know are somewhat OT but it does all “tie together”
 
My, you guys, may I say that when I have a problem coming to the DIS most always gets me the input that I need! Thank you so much for exposing yourselves for our benefit. It truly makes me saddened by all that you must endure, just as with my DD.

With regards to your suggestion about going to a calm place to quietly probe for what may be the true problem, I guess this is where our problem lies. Perhaps my DD is too young to appropriately express what the true problem is and perhaps I, as her mother, am not intuitive enough to figure it out. Last week she had a major episode when her friend, who was over visiting needed to leave. She ran upon him with his back turned and out of nowhere hit him as hard as she could on his back. It really hurt him, his mother was there, and of course I was appalled as such a violent attack. I sat her down in a chair and told her not to move while I sent the child and mother home. As she sat there, she escalated further and further into incoherancy until she was screaming that she wished everyone were dead. This was very frightening to me! She was hurting herself, pulling her own hair, beating on herself and just completely berzerk. Her psychologist told me to bearhug her at these times but I've tried that before and it absolutely makes it worse because she feels attacked. So I put her in her room (which she hates because she hates to be alone) and she proceeded to destroy her things and pound wildly at the windows (which I feared would break and harm her more). I feel so helpless to help her when she is in these episodes and they happen anywhere from once a week to once a month. Last night she wanted to swim and I couldn't be out there to supervise and she completely lost it, screaming and throwing herself down where she scraped her leg and bruised her cheek. She was so upset she didn't even realize she was hurt! And somtimes she may overreact to the simplest bug bite but she's bleeding from her leg and bruised on her cheek and dosn't even feel it?
When she calms down and I try to talk to her she states she doesn't know why and gets a blank look as if she doesn't remember the intensity of what happened. I fear, if left uncontrolled, these episodes will ruin her quality of life. She is already constantly in the principal's office at a private school that will not understand her nuances. I am having her repeat Kinder next year to allow her some more social development eventhough she will be quite bored academically because she is already doing some complex math and reading and has always been quite good at difficult puzzles. However, due to her developmental delays, her handwriting is quite bad and she complains that her hand "hurts" when she writes. Her OT tries to help with pencil grips but she continues to resist handwriting.
With what they describe as developmental coordination disorder I would expect extreme lack of coordination but on the contrary, my DD is quite gifted at certain physical activites. While she tires extremely quickly from any physical exertion I often find her at the top of the patio columns (10 feet!) when she has bare handed and bare footed climbed the pole like a monkey. She can throw a basketball into a hoop flawlessly, and her problem is that she is a "perfectionist" oftentimes becoming so frustrated and intensely brokenhearten when she cannot perform something to the quality she wishes.
I waited 9 months for an appointment with the supposed best developmental Pedi in our town. She says no Asperger's, no Autism, just a long list of other disorders that don't exactly explain the total picture. I've succombed to medicating her with antidepressants for her often debilitating anxiety. It has helped somewhat. Now they want to talk about further medication to subdue her which I just cannot agree to. The ADHD meds were a complete disaster. It helped her focus while she was on the meds but "coming down" from them made her much worse than ever before.
With My DD's anxiety, I've become her "security blanket". She leans on me to help her and be her protector. I am just worried that as she becomes older and as her episodes become more violent I won't be able to help her. Any ideas on how to deal with a child going through the "caged animal" feeling as you put it? Do I try to learn the signs of frustration and try to intervene before it blows up? And sometimes she goes from laughing one second to screaming fit the next: LITERALLY. I try to teach her coping mechanisms such as breathing but she says when she gets "that feeling" she can't calm down.
I've requested that they use extreme scheduling next year at school and that she be told and shown with pictures when possible what will happen next. Her episodes seem to be triggered by something happening that she can't control and that she didn't expect. Well, in this life those things happen almost constantly. How do I shield her from that? And how do I discern between what is a tantrum of "not getting her way" and what is sensory based or out of her control? Or should I accept that learning to act appropriately with an SPD child is not possible and is just asking her to fit the "mold"?
Sorry, I am asking impossible questions questions here. I TRULY appreciate the responses received from everyone on this thread. Any feedback is always welcome! Sorry for the long post!
:goodvibes

Thanks!
 
Recently mom pushed me so hard emotionally that I was close to cutting. However instead of cutting I put ketchup on the wall. A stroke for every mean word, everything mom was venting and spewing at me was on that wall. I was desperate and could not control mom until I controlled myself.

It takes time to be self aware of problems and then come up with solutions. My solution did no damage to the house or myself but once long ago threatening to cut or scraping my arms was my way of saying STOP.

Your daughter is lashing out because of internal confilct and problems. It is going to take reduction of stress and finding out what is bothering her. She clearly is lashing out as a way of saying STOP I CANNOT TAKE THIS ANY MORE, MAKE IT GO AWAY, STOP IT.

yOU ARE NOT A BAD PARENT AND SHE IS NOT A BAD KID. She just is overwhelmed easily and is coping as best as she can. Punishing her is not good either until she is self aware. Try swaddling her in blankets. Hold her and rock her. Know her limits and do not let her go beyond thsoe until she can learn slef awareness. She is under a lot of stress but you do not see that because you are not like her.

You are a great mother becuse you love your child and are online researching and looking for help for that child.

hug
Laurie:hug::hug::hug::hug::surfweb::thumbsup2
 
Oh, Laurie, your post sent me to tears. My Goodness I wish that I could help you or that someone could be there for you in your times of need. :hug:

I fear that I am so confused as a parent that my constant indecisiveness just adds to my DD's problems. And I feel that is what you are expressing in your post.

It is so hard to be a parent and stand firm in your beliefs and strong in your convictions and advocate for a child! I'm surrounded by those that "know best" and tell me conflicting things of how to handle these situations! My motherly intuition has always told me to give my DD the extra support she needs when these episodes occur and yet I am faced with my own parents/friends and the rest of the NT society that say don't give her the reinforcement when she is being "bad". I am told to discipline her when her behavior is out of bounds so as to teach her to stop acting that way. But what you describe in your post and what I have sensed as a parent is that she is out of control, unable to verbalize that feeling and lashing out.

Perhaps a NT kid can be taught, through Time Out and discipline to modify their behavior, but the NV child doesn't have the neurological abilities to adapt and learn from normal disciplinary techniches. I so suffer with my empathy over my DD's turmoil. Does my empathic pain encourage her to tantrum? Why would she need me to react to her pain? How can I stop the tantrum without empathizing with her and/or disciplining her? And how do I give her the comfort she needs from me without encouraging further meltdowns?

This is the dichotomy of being a parent to a NV child. You want to save your child from distress, you sense that they are unable to act approprately or learn to respond appropriately to what they percieve as dangerous stimuli. Their brains interpret that which we all filter out as meaningless into a fight or flight response. But the NT world is based on training people to act approprately in society. Those that aren't "trainable" become cast outs, shut ins, not so-called productive members of society as we know it.

All my DD's drs say one thing: it is my goal to make her adapt to society. But these startling and honest reflections from you adults who have lived with this have a much more intimate knowledge of what is needed. I think I will try your approach and try to intercede before tantrums occur even if that means adjusting my life and sacrificing what I need in the short term. The swaddling and rocking is a great suggestion, my DD, eventhough she is almost 6 still asks me to rock her often. To others this is "babying" her but perhaps it is organizing and soothing to her mind and I need to learn not to judge my interactions with my DD according to the NT world's perception.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
Big hugs to you Laurie! While you are not making the $50000 a year in the productive job as you mentioned in your PP, you are an asset to this world and I hope you can have some peace and comfort and not judge yourself based on society's false benchmarks. When we are all gone from here, it is not our jobs or money or any of that that will have had any meaning at all.
 
GraceLuvsWDW

Once you understand who and what you are it its really not that big of a deal as long as you keep you sense of humor, and the NT world is very humorous when look at from “outside”

Since you ask I will offer my perspective on why you are not having success, It is not my intent to be critical but to offer a perspective and alternatives so please take it in that light.

I know from your perspective it looked like an intentional violent attack and had the practical effect of that but I am quite sure that that was not her intent. The yet undiscovered basis on which she based her actions is usually far from our first thoughts, and your reaction was while not unexpected, unfortunately as you discovered not “productive”.

Here is what I have found works, although I “screw it up” on a daily basis and your situation is somewhat different the principals are the same. Let go of all of what society (including well meaning but ignorant friends and family) say, your child is different an always will be. That is not a bad thing and actually can be quite wonderful but it is still “different”. The standard rule/punishment system simply does not work in most cases, and is often severely damaging. Our children need principals and skills and education. The actions you described are likely manifestations of he not “understanding” the world and just trying to do the best she can. Why she did it may be frustration and not having any other skill yet to express it or it may be a model of something she saw in a cartoon or any of 100 other reasons, but while it is nice to “know why” it is much more important to take these events and use them as the excellent teaching opportunities that they are. How to do that, first is letting go of the societal parental expectation that I referenced above (a lot easier said than done). This means not getting upset (and not just faking not being upset) since as soon as this happens since you are your daughter whole world (yes this is very obvious as is how much she loves you from the pictures) her world becomes very unsafe and her self worth is diminished to the point where it would be easier just “not to exist”, thus the melt down and associated behaviors. I know that it is not this simple but here is the ideal of what would happen. After the child was hit, the child would show that by crying or other non-aggressive means that it hurt her. You do not need to give any admonitions just make sure that she is aware of this. She may start to melt down once when realizes the impact and it is appropriate to let her know that the child is not seriously injured but that hitting the child did hurt her. This is going to likely take some time to sink in and for her to calm down after she processes the facts. Only after she completely calm down is it time to do a “social autopsy”. It has to be done in a non-accusatory way or she will likely just shut down. Start well before the incident and slowly work though it. Ask her what when thought the reaction of the child would be? Have some skills ready when you discover the true “why” of the situation. It always amazes me how far off my initials “guesses” are. Of course this is in an ideal world where the other parent and child understand the situation and are supportive and you can “let go” and “keep your cool”.

One thing to remember is that if you need to hug to keep her safe that it is something that you practice during non meltdown times and that as much as possible be calm and supportive of her needs.

Oh and she does not need to repeat kinder she just needs a teacher and staff that understand and support her needs, the fact that they think keeping her back will help her “social development” is a big red flag that they do not really have a clue.

As for the developmental ped who said it is not autism genetic related, video tape your child during a few meltdown and the Ped will realize just how incompetent he/she was. I am willing to bet that he/she did not have an autism group do a full set of evaluations.

She will learn the world from you, Her anxiety will go down when she knows that you (and hopefully the school) “understand her” and know how to meet her needs instead of using NT methods. It is actually quite amazing how quickly this happens when the environment changes.

Wow I hope that did not come of as being judgmental, it was not intended that way, but it is one of the hard lessons that parents of children with autism spectrum genetic have to “come to” if their children are going to thrive.

bookwormde
 

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