Someone told me the 2100 loop cabins are gone. True???

figmentfan1

According to Caleb: "No Dancing!"
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
We are going back to Disney (after way too long away) in May with my sis and her large family. They always bring their RV and we get a cabin. Last time we were in loops 2100 and 1100 and shared a "yard"... it was wonderful.

My sister's friend is a TA and doing our booking and says Disney took the cabins out of loop 2100. Is that true??

Thanks everyone!
 
Disney took the cabins out of loop 2100

1) Yep.
2) Now a camping loop.
3) The cabins are frequently not fully rented, except during holiday periods.
4) Camping loops get to capacity for most of the year.
. . . plus, no housekeeping labor/benefits
. . . plus, no laundry for towels/sheets/etc (manpower, equipment, labor/benefits)
. . . plus, no pots/pans/utensils replace
. . . plus, no structural maintenance upkeep
. . . plus, no phone lines to maintain
. . . plus, no furniture/TVs/appliances to maintain or periodically replace
5) Income counts.
. . . very little manpower or repair costs
. . . just cleanup any trash remaining on the campsite
. . . just make sure the power/cable/sewer are working
6) Rumor (REPEAT: RUMOR) is that two more cabin lops will be converted to campsites. *

* One can easily see why most cabins will eventually be replaced by campsites. The Campground is getting very popular as more families and Boomers buy RVs and want to camp. Plus, with all the activities at The Fort, many campers only go to the parks for part of their stay.
 
6) Rumor (REPEAT: RUMOR) is that two more cabin lops will be converted to campsites. *

* One can easily see why most cabins will eventually be replaced by campsites. The Campground is getting very popular as more families and Boomers buy RVs and want to camp. Plus, with all the activities at The Fort, many campers only go to the parks for part of their stay.

The overriding factor in my mind is population growth and the Boomers retiring (more of them having time to use an RV and enjoy its value). Camping capacity at the Fort (not counting cabins) has not occurred since the mid-70s IIRC (I can check that later). So incremental demand annually has finally stressed the Fort resources to the point where demand is high, capacity is not being added, thus simple economics says prices will rise.

Of course, if Disney management were smart they would build a Fort Wilderness Version 2 as I have advocated/agitated for a few years now. Management seems hyper-afraid to make a decision that isn't an obvious WIN. Take the land across Vista Boulevard (between the Fort and Epcot) and build a Fort 2 (heck - make it a DVC campground if you want to) with pull throughs and so much more. Being next to the Fort would leverage the Fort support infrastructure. But there must be an edict out there that says any project that takes up a land footprint must require a hell of payback.

They could cannibalize ALL the cabins but that's only delaying the inevitable. Instead of REPLACING revenue sources they should be ADDING revenue sources with a Fort 2. I like the name "Camp Davy Crockett" which is the name of the cabin resort at Disneyland Paris.

I'm not a gambling man but I would bet Rusty's boat that this business case would be a win-win. :boat:

Bama Ed
 
I was looking at the satellite imagery of the Fort the other day. There seems to be plenty of land for expansion before the need to cross Vista Blvd. All of the land north of the group camp and south of the Settlement could hold at least 4 good sized loops, and there is already a bus loop running along Frontier Way.
 
. . . incremental demand annually has finally stressed the Fort resources to the point where demand is high, capacity is not being added, thus simple economics says prices will rise . . .

1) And rise, and rise, and rise.
2) Internally, we joke that the pads were touched by King Midas.
3) They are made of gold - and priced the same way.
 
Some of the demand is also driven by people staying off site looking for a cheap way to get the benefits of staying on site.
 
I don't think you'll see a second campground at WDW. The campground just doesn't make enough revenue per square foot in comparison to the hotels. Too many people stay in them and don't go into the parks. The "long-term" stays you see at The Fort are not what Disney wants. They want week long stays with people going into the park for 4 or 5 days, buying food and souvenirs. Fort Wilderness just doesn't pack the density, nor does it pack the revenue potential. I think what you will see first is Disney tying days in the campground to park tickets. Something along the lines of, you can stay 3 days for every day you have a park ticket. That will create a lot more turnover, create more revenue, and free up spots. People will absolutely hate it, as staying at Fort Wilderness isn't really tied to the parks in the way the hotels are, but from Disney's point of view it makes perfect sense.
 
We're camped backed up to the 2100 loop. From driving around, I think it's full hookup with the provision for tents.

If Disney ties the site to a park ticket, I wonder how they would hande the annual passholders? I'll take 3 days for each day I have a park ticket. It still covers my 60 days or so.
 
If Disney ties the site to a park ticket, I wonder how they would hande the annual passholders? I'll take 3 days for each day I have a park ticket. It still covers my 60 days or so.

If it was me formulating this kind of policy, and I assure you I have no connection with Disney other than simply loving being there, I assume buying an annual pass would give you unlimited, though still pay by night, access to The Fort. You have already committed to the revenue this idea is meant to generate. No, this idea is targeted at the people who use The Fort but don't have park tickets, as they are low revenue by Disney standards.

If you can mostly fill The Fort with shorter stays and people going to the parks, that is more money for Disney than filling The Fort with people staying for days or weeks at a time and not going into the parks. Lets face it, the point of the resorts is to get people into the parks, paying for tickets, food, souvenirs, and the seemingly endless upcharge experiences they keep adding, not to get people to vacation in the hotels. Though I admit that has changed somewhat as Disney has added spas, golf courses, high end restaurants, and other pay experiences at the resorts, they still exist primarily to house people heading for the parks.

From a corporate point of view, tying the parks and a Fort stay together might alleviate the reservation difficulties that plague The Fort now, since I'm assuming you would lose the people that come stay for weeks at a time in Snowbird Season and the people that just pop over to use the campground, which is a significant number of campers though far from a majority in my experience. If there is a little less demand, then maybe there is no reason to expand Fort Wilderness or expand the amenities at Fort Wilderness, since presumably people would go into the parks more than just hang around the pool. More money coming in, less money going out. Seems like the Disney way over the last 20 years.

I will say that Disney seems to like to keep everything common across all the resorts. Since this policy is hardly necessary, or needed, at most resorts, it may just be that in this case treating The Fort like the other resorts keeps a revenue idea from happening. Or it may be they just don't want to set the example and alienate a long term clientele. Or maybe they just don't view the current issues with The Fort being so full as a problem that needs solving. Or maybe they have studied it and determined that I'm wrong. I have no idea. But if I was a Disney bean counter and was presented with the need to find a way to make Fort Wilderness more profitable, or even with a way to alleviate overcrowding while increasing revenue, this is certainly an idea I would study before building a new campground or expanding what is already there.
 
Some campgrounds have policies that limit stays to 14 days in any 30 day period. If Disney implemented this kind of policy, that would force turnover. Knowing Disney's strong abilities in the IT space (sarcasm), they could implement this easily (whoops, there I go again). To your point, jknezek, they could probably apply this rule to all the Disney resorts because I wonder who, other than maybe a few foreign travelers, comes to Disney for a stay of 14 days or more? That's the length of time on a multi-day pass to use it once you burn that first day.

Bama Ed
 
I agree, but 14 days is a long time for someone to stay if they are eating their own food and not going into the Parks. Again, I'm looking at this from a Disney revenue perspective and also as a way to relieve some of the reservation issues The Fort experiences. The goal isn't simply to get people to turn over at The Fort, though that could solve part of the issue, the goal is to get people at The Fort that are going to go to the parks and spend money and turnover. I wish I could really study this problem. Find out how many people stay without tickets. How many people stay for long periods of time without tickets. What the average revenue per spot per night is versus revenue per room in a moderate resort. Then look at the cost side of the same. Then start applying different models and see how to earn the most per spot and how it would stack up against a moderate resort. It would be fascinating to really know. Sadly I don't think Disney will turnover the necessary data, even if I asked real nice...
 
If Disney tried to force me into park tickets or shorter stays I just wouldn't come at that point. I'm not going to spend 4 days traveling (2 days to get there, 2 days home) for only 4-5 days at the Fort. If I'm going to tow my camper across the country, I'm going to stay at the destination for 2 weeks minimum.
 
If Disney tried to force me into park tickets or shorter stays I just wouldn't come at that point. I'm not going to spend 4 days traveling (2 days to get there, 2 days home) for only 4-5 days at the Fort. If I'm going to tow my camper across the country, I'm going to stay at the destination for 2 weeks minimum.

I get that. I really do. I'm just not sure Disney should think this is the optimal use of their campground. Someone staying for 14 days and not buying park tickets, eating mostly in their RV, and not buying upcharge events, isn't what Disney should want. They should want those same 14 days to be used by someone who is going to spend more money. Here's the example.

Two families staying for only 10 of those 14 days and buying a total of 8 days of Park passes would more than double the revenue. to price it out, $100 a day x 14 days, you spent $1400 for Ft Wilderness (yes, I'm using easy numbers here). Add some ancillaries like the occasional meal or bike rental, and you have spent around $2000 over 2 weeks. That's a lot of money, but with 2 people in your camper it's only about $40 per person per day.

Compare that with two families of 4 staying 10 days. That makes for only $1000 for the campsite, which is a drop in revenue. But, assuming park tickets average out to $80 per person per day, on the cheap end since that's roughly the 4 park special right now, that's $320 per day x 10 days, or $3200. Now assume one meal a day in the parks, 7 of 10 QS to keep costs down is about $80 per day per family, or $560 over the period, and $160 per day for TS, that's $480 over the period. So we are at $5280 roughly for those 2 families, staying less time, and that's being pretty frugal. Cheapest tickets, no add-ons like Park Hoppers, no Dining Plan, no snacks, no souvenirs, no character meals which cost more, etc. It could easily work out to being 3x more revenue than you are providing or more. Either way, that $5280 is $132 per day per person over 10 days, or $95 per person per day over the full 2 weeks, which is kind of a silly measure since for 4 of those days you wouldn't have additional expenses while the site was empty, but it's still revenue positive over what Disney had before.

With the difficulty booking Fort sites, I'm guessing they wouldn't miss it if they started finding ways to make sure Fort Wilderness was used by people who were going to do more of option 2 than what you want to do. I'm also guessing this is at least part of the reason why the campground hasn't really been expanded and no other campground has been built despite the demand. It's just not a particularly good use of Disney's construction dollars the way a significant portion of the campground is currently used. Especially during Peak Times in Snowbird Season.

My thought of tying a park ticket every 3 day stay obviously wouldn't provide as much revenue as the example, but you can see what Disney should be aiming for from a revenue standpoint.
 
Or, to increase revenue across their whole operation, they can sell bundles of parking, 60-day FP access, and magic bands to people staying offsite. Maybe something like cost of parking + $10/day for up to 4 linked tickets.
 
Let's not worry over things that haven't happened. Let's keep on topic about the 2100 loop. I liked the addition of another Full camping loop.
 
Let's not worry over things that haven't happened. Let's keep on topic about the 2100 loop. I liked the addition of another Full camping loop.

1) True.
2) The event called "camping" has grown among us OLD folks.
3) The Fort needed to accommodate an expanding base, so more campsites are welcome.
4) Now, let us pray they don't go through with adding a DVC at The Fort.
 
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Did the 2100 sites utilized the same concrete pads/drive that existed for the cabins ? or were they modified to suit the Rv's ? I haven't seen any close up pics.
 

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