Springtime Surprise Weekend 2024 (April 18-21)

[The Expert]

I have a friend who was there this weekend and she is CrD Platinum and she was in D for all three races.

That must have been a mistake. Every CrD Platinum I encountered had B, as usual.

I do agree that B was far more crowded than I've ever seen it. I've been running out of B since MW 2023 and this weekend was definitely the largest group I've encountered. The CrD Platinum line to get in for rD merch the first morning was also the most crowded I've seen (DL was close). I've been fairly confident CrD isn't to blame but now I'm starting to wonder.

 

[nancipants]

Agreed about B being huge. I am usually in D or E, and remember A always having two waves and B having maybe 3-4 at the most. For the 10 miler B had 11 waves! I was in C, which I remember usually starts around 5:15, and I didn't start until after 5:35. It was weird. I wonder how many waves C, D, and E had each.

 

[fatmanatee]

Yeah, I hope they add a POT corral for 1:30-1:45 next time. I was surprised that they didn't have that last year when I ran it, actually went in thinking I might have a POT (turned out to be a week after the deadline, went to runner relations to ask about it) but didn't realize that for this weekend they were only accepting equivalents to 1:30 or faster.

 

[Baloo in MI]

So brought home a very unwanted souvenir from the weekend. During the 10-miler I had intended to give a POT effort for MW or at least next years SS. But the wheels really came off by mile 4. I was a little disappointed but really more concerned about what had happened. I think I have my answer…. Sunday after the race I felt very drained and woke up Monday with a sore throat. By evening I was pretty miserable and while flying home today I was hating life!

No covid - took test - but have fever, sore throat, really bad headache, weakness and congestion. Good times…. I hope no one else brought home the same souvenir! Beyond this it was a really nice weekend. I am thinking I will stick with it. I know there is no plan for Perfect Status for SS, but I am thinking those of us who reach 5 years in 2026 create our own Perfect Status - The Spring Surprise Challenge Unofficially Perfect Club!

 

[SlightlyocdDisneyfan]

So brought home a very unwanted souvenir from the weekend. During the 10-miler I had intended to give a POT effort for MW or at least next years SS. But the wheels really came off by mile 4. I was a little disappointed but really more concerned about what had happened. I think I have my answer…. Sunday after the race I felt very drained and woke up Monday with a sore throat. By evening I was pretty miserable and while flying home today I was hating life!

No covid - took test - but have fever, sore throat, really bad headache, weakness and congestion. Good times…. I hope no one else brought home the same souvenir! Beyond this it was a really nice weekend. I am thinking I will stick with it. I know there is no plan for Perfect Status for SS, but I am thinking those of us who reach 5 years in 2026 create our own Perfect Status - The Spring Surprise Challenge Unofficially Perfect Club!

Hope you recover quickly!! My daughter managed to pick up the same souvenir - with the exact same timeline. Hope you feel better soon!

 

[nancipants]

Sorry you got sick, @Baloo in MI. Hopefully it's a quick illness.

I'm also feeling under the weather, but of the non-contagious type. Thankfully my body waited until yesterday to start acting up. I haven't run since the 10 miler and I'm okay with waiting for awhile.

 

[LilyJC]

I know there is no plan for Perfect Status for SS, but I am thinking those of us who reach 5 years in 2026 create our own Perfect Status - The Spring Surprise Challenge Unofficially Perfect Club!

We’re sticking with it too even though the heat this time was the worst of the three years so far! Maybe next year since it’s early April it will be cooler

Hope you recover quickly! We’re healthy (so far), but we hid in our room for the most part.

 

[WhereInFlorida]

The misters in Epcot by Test Track should have been on.... missed opportunity.

 

[Bree]

SS only had one POT corral in 2022, 2023 & 2024. The POT cutoff is also lower than all other race weekends. You needed a 54ish or faster 10K, 1:30 or faster 10 miler, sub 2 half or 4:10 or faster marathon to get into corral A.



The first non-POT corral has been and always will be a disaster. It’s blasted all over the internet and social media to pick that corral for a balloon lady buffer. Hopefully next year there will be a 1:31-1:45 or even a 1:31-2:00 corral to help separate those who actually run at those paces from those that do not. It just means the next corral will be the giant corral, but not much can be done about that.

 

[Let's Get Kronk]

SS only had one POT corral in 2022, 2023 & 2024. The POT cutoff is also lower than all other race weekends. You needed a 54ish or faster 10K, 1:30 or faster 10 miler, sub 2 half or 4:10 or faster marathon to get into corral A.

View attachment 854416

The first non-POT corral has been and always will be a disaster. It’s blasted all over the internet and social media to pick that corral for a balloon lady buffer. Hopefully next year there will be a 1:31-1:45 or even a 1:31-2:00 corral to help separate those who actually run at those paces from those that do not. It just means the next corral will be the giant corral, but not much can be done about that.

Even with that knowledge and corral B being the first non-POT corral, runDisney has a responsibility IMO to spread the rest of the field out between the other corrals for safety. Corral B was extremely overcrowded, the waves were super congested, and it just made for a super unpleasant experience for a majority of people in that inflated corral. They can't put everyone who selects the fastest non-POT time slot in Corral B. It makes zero sense to me.

ETA: lots can be done about that (per bolded above). runDisney can do something about that and they should.

 

[Baloo in MI]

I think the changes being made to the POT’s will help as it will reach into the current corral B runners who were not as fast as A, but were faster than a lot of runners in the first non-POT corral. There are a lot of runners (I am one) who can obtain a medium level POT and could then be placed in a corral with like runners. Simply put, from a SS lense - I am not running a sub 1:30 10-Miler, but a sub 1:45 is something I can achieve and a sub 2:00 would mean even more people could be rightly corralled amongst similarly paced runners.

I know we got away from the A-P corrals long ago in favor of lots of mini-waves within a few corrals. And maybe that is ultimately a faster way to get everyone out on the course. But I am happy to wait a little longer than start sooner and run into so much congestion. Plus it was fun to be able to put in a POT for MW again after several years of not qualifying!

 

[Bree]

Even with that knowledge and corral B being the first non-POT corral, runDisney has a responsibility IMO to spread the rest of the field out between the other corrals for safety. Corral B was extremely overcrowded, the waves were super congested, and it just made for a super unpleasant experience for a majority of people in that inflated corral. They can't put everyone who selects the fastest non-POT time slot in Corral B. It makes zero sense to me.

ETA: lots can be done about that (per bolded above). runDisney can do something about that and they should.

What are some ideas about what they can do? I am truly wondering. I see this posted all the time, yet no input on how to fix it.

They are expanding the POT which means earlier submission times to verify them. When you have thousands of people lying about their estimated finish times there’s only so much you can do. Yeah, you can bump some of those estimates into other corrals, but it’s a crappy thing to do when someone that really does run a C pace gets stuck in E while a runner only capable of an E pace gets to stay put in C.

I have been running Disney since 2015. The first non-POT corral has always been a cluster. It was made worse when races returned after Covid and they had very fast POT requirements. Hopefully expanding POT will ease some of the corral crowding and congestion on the course.

 

[camaker]

Even with that knowledge and corral B being the first non-POT corral, runDisney has a responsibility IMO to spread the rest of the field out between the other corrals for safety. Corral B was extremely overcrowded, the waves were super congested, and it just made for a super unpleasant experience for a majority of people in that inflated corral. They can't put everyone who selects the fastest non-POT time slot in Corral B. It makes zero sense to me.

ETA: lots can be done about that (per bolded above). runDisney can do something about that and they should.

I only see a few options for RunDisney to address the issue. First would be to expand the PoT requirements, which really just shifts the issue a little further back in the starting sequence rather than truly addressing it. Second would be to spread the first non-PoT selectors across multiple corrals. They did this during the 5k/10k for MW and it led to all sorts of "we put the same estimate in and got put into different corrals" complaints and didn't really lead to any less congestion that I saw. Finally, they could add more mini-waves with fewer runners in each, which should help with congestion. I don't know if the SS mini-waves were larger than typical. The only one that I see as being feasible and effective is the last.

If done correctly, mini-waves should be more effective at spreading the field out than adding corrals. Ultimately, though, it's up to runners to self-sort through honest time estimates and intelligent self-placement within a corral. I always find it a bit concerning that we, as runners, expect RunDisney to protect us from ourselves. Somehow local racers manage to deal with this just fine. My most recent race was a mass start of 4,000 runners onto a narrower course than Disney with no mini-waves.

As a last note, I'll add that there is one thing RunDisney could do to address this situation that would remove the incentive to lie about pacing and estimated finish times. Take the character photo ops off the course. No need to "bank time" to stop for pictures. Do I think they will? No. But it would be an option to have rare characters out pre- and post-race to allow those coveted pics while removing their impact from the races themselves.

 

[The Expert]

I don't know if the SS mini-waves were larger than typical

Not sure about further back, but the waves in B felt pretty small. However, we didn't do much stopping. They were pretty much sending them about 30 seconds apart.

intelligent self-placement within a corral.

^^^ THIS ^^^ We are doing this to ourselves, and I have definitely been guilty in my first few races. Those who know enough to be aware of the balloon ladies and worried about finishing are told to get as close to the front of their corral as possible for the most buffer.

Once you've done a few of these races, I think most of us realize that unless you're in the last corral with the balloons, the starting time difference between the front and back of your corral isn't more than a few minutes. But in the moment, if you are truly worried about finishing, it is easy to let your nerves get the best of you and crowd forward. I know I have no business in B, so I try to stay back and far right. There are lots of others who do the same, but not enough.

 

[DisneyParrothead]

I only see a few options for RunDisney to address the issue. First would be to expand the PoT requirements, which really just shifts the issue a little further back in the starting sequence rather than truly addressing it. Second would be to spread the first non-PoT selectors across multiple corrals. They did this during the 5k/10k for MW and it led to all sorts of "we put the same estimate in and got put into different corrals" complaints and didn't really lead to any less congestion that I saw. Finally, they could add more mini-waves with fewer runners in each, which should help with congestion. I don't know if the SS mini-waves were larger than typical. The only one that I see as being feasible and effective is the last.

If done correctly, mini-waves should be more effective at spreading the field out than adding corrals. Ultimately, though, it's up to runners to self-sort through honest time estimates and intelligent self-placement within a corral. I always find it a bit concerning that we, as runners, expect RunDisney to protect us from ourselves. Somehow local racers manage to deal with this just fine. My most recent race was a mass start of 4,000 runners onto a narrower course than Disney with no mini-waves.

As a last note, I'll add that there is one thing RunDisney could do to address this situation that would remove the incentive to lie about pacing and estimated finish times. Take the character photo ops off the course. No need to "bank time" to stop for pictures. Do I think they will? No. But it would be an option to have rare characters out pre- and post-race to allow those coveted pics while removing their impact from the races themselves.

The BolderBoulder has been using mini waves for decades, and it really does help spread out people by pace. They start with A, and have close to 100 waves, or something like that, and it's printed on your bib. You can't line up until they call your mini wave. Runners hang out by the start line, but you aren't allowed in the ONE starting corral until you're called. They have 40,000 runners for the 10K, and they have this organization down to a science.

Edit: to add, the qualified running corrals require proof of time for anything under 75 minutes.

I realize doing something like that would change the rD logistics completely, but there was no congestion at the start. It's also great because there's no pushing to get to the head of the corral, no surging the second someone shows up to take runners into the starting shoot, etc.

 

[rubybutt]

Anybody happen to have an extra AP spirit jersey size M for sale? I am looking as a present for my wife. She reads this forum too, so make sure not to tell her I am looking.

 

[Baloo in MI]

RunDisney will always be different than local races, so I don’t think we can accurately compare the two. RunDisney is a space for such a wide variety of runners and runners with very different objectives for the race. A local race is mostly runners out to get from the start to the finish as quickly as they can. The norms and etiquette of races are more widely known, understood and followed in a local race if for nothing else than the higher percentage of more serious and veteran runners compared to runDisney. runDisney remains an entry point, and as such is going to provide the largest variance in runners. And to be clear it should, at the heart of runDisney is a welcoming community and hopefully an environment that brings in people to be more active and have fun with friends and family.

For that very reason runDisney needs to recognize this variance and be hands on with how races are structured. They shouldn’t simply line us up and send us away figuring we will work it out on the course. I know, pie in the sky…. But if they are trying to create as positive an experience for everyone who signed up they need to address this. Expanded POT’s helps, I think much more focus on runner etiquette would also help.

But these events sell out in just a few hours, people (finger pointed directly at me) keep coming back over and over. And this even with ever increasing prices and questions to quality of the experience… I am personally happy to see expanded POT’s, that is a start.

 

[nancipants]

The BolderBoulder has been using mini waves for decades, and it really does help spread out people by pace. They start with A, and have close to 100 waves, or something like that, and it's printed on your bib. You can't line up until they call your mini wave. Runners hang out by the start line, but you aren't allowed in the ONE starting corral until you're called. They have 40,000 runners for the 10K, and they have this organization down to a science.

Edit: to add, the qualified running corrals require proof of time for anything under 75 minutes.

I realize doing something like that would change the rD logistics completely, but there was no congestion at the start. It's also great because there's no pushing to get to the head of the corral, no surging the second someone shows up to take runners into the starting shoot, etc.

I really wish they would only line up one corral at a time--it would help so much with pre-race stuck in the corrals bathroom anxiety (and give people more time to get character pics!)--but I know that is wishful thinking.

 

[camaker]

For that very reason runDisney needs to recognize this variance and be hands on with how races are structured. They shouldn’t simply line us up and send us away figuring we will work it out on the course. I know, pie in the sky…. But if they are trying to create as positive an experience for everyone who signed up they need to address this. Expanded POT’s helps, I think much more focus on runner etiquette would also help.

I don't disagree with your core sentiments, but here's where I have an issue. RunDisney doesn't "simply line us up and send us away figuring we will work it out on the course". They've put together a nicely structured system to group runners by ability and send them off together. The runners themselves are actively subverting and sabotaging the system put in place for their benefit.

As for race etiquette, I also don't know what more RunDisney can do other than make runners attend a mandatory, sit-down class on running with required certification prior to being allowed to register. I've been doing RunDisney events since 2016 and every one of them has had etiquette communication in one or more of the following forms: inclusion in the race guide for the weekend, repeated mentions during pre-race activities, and/or posts on multiple social media outlets. Runners simply ignore it because "it's my race and I deserve to run it how I want" among other reasons.

At some point, I just don't blame RunDisney for throwing up their hands and saying enough's enough.

 

[jmasgat]

. The norms and etiquette of races are more widely known, understood and followed in a local race if for nothing else than the higher percentage of more serious and veteran runners compared to runDisney.

Tell that to the people who ran the BAA 5k last weekend. I lined up where I was "supposed to"--Wave 1, 8-9 mpm pace. That SHOULD have put me about 3000-ish runners in. It did not. People went wherever they went from all sides of the barriers. I was definitely last 3rd of starters. There was no control, only signs, which were clearly ignored. Anytime you leave this to "the mass of runners" to be honest/reasonable/realistic about how to line up, you will have a cluster. People will do whatever they want if you let them.

I think RD will do the least they can (since it's $$ for equipment/people) to manage the race start, and most people either won't care or will resign themselves to the fact that it won't be ideal.

Honestly, other than Boston--and other races that seed ALL people by time--I think this will always be the case with races, because.....people.