C
Captain Crook
Guest
My friend scoop left out the most important item, that being the ability to take a boat from Coronodo to MK...er, ah Epcot.
Yeah! As a long time DVCer I know I was a little more than upset when I heard about it. So the "other than WDW" destinations, which were certainly implied if not actually stated, are really dwindling away to nothing. And, in my opinion at least, they are rapidly over building their WDW DVC properties. Seems they won't be satisfied until they drain that cash cow as well!!And Disney even sold its property here in Newport to Marriott - makes you wonder about the future of Hilton Head and Vero doesn't it?
I'm not sure that's what is happening. It's such a huge double standard, though. Whenever ANYTHING is less than perfect the masses are quick to point the finger directly at Eisner. The rationale being that "he's the boss, it's his fault." If that so goes, then logic would dictate the opposite. Both perspectives are, of course, not entirely correct.Why is there such a need to give Michael Eisner credit for the hard work and imagination of a lot of other people? By proclaiming him as the source of all things good with the company, you devalue the work of hundreds of others (and distort a good amount of history). Mr. Eisner does not design ride, write movie scripts, compose songs, draft plans for hotels or produce television shows. He signs checks. Give him credit for an occansional good judgement in choosing between options, but don't confuse that with true creativity.
Why is there such a need to give Michael Eisner credit for the hard work and imagination of a lot of other people? By proclaiming him as the source of all things good with the company, you devalue the work of hundreds of others (and distort a good amount of history).
...there's a certain amount of kiwis and kumquats going on, here.Give credit were the credit is due.
...we've gotten to that point, again, where we're all blind men describing the elephant. AV feels the trunk and says an elephant is like a big snake, Landbaron feels the skin and says an elephant is like a rough leather sack, a couple others are feeling the legs and say an elephant is like a tree trunk (I, of course, am standing directly behind the elephant, pointing out that an elephant is a warm squishy pile that smells bad).The creative side, even if externally pressured, can still turn out a great product on a limited budget.
Well, I guess that's what this is all about. You see, I don't agree with that statement at all. Sure Walt didn't put on the trusty tool belt and hammer in all the nails. Nor did he drag out the T-square and draw up the architectural plans. But it was his vision, and his vision ALONE, that made the dream a reality (even his wife thought he was crazy). Yes, he had a lot of help. But no, no one else can take credit for Disneyland. It's his and his alone.Walt didn't do it alone but got all the credit.
Through all my ramblings and diatribes on the subject, this is the very heart of the matter. JJ, thank you for putting it so succinctly.In a way, we can't give credit or blame to Eisner for any specific project: the meaningful creation went on well below Eisner's level in the org chart. What we must judge Eisner on is the direction he sets, the goals he champions, the methods he rewards.
Agreed!At worst, the Great Deed score is now 1 instead of 0
And I would suggest that one thing truly defines Eisner's philosophy, his being, his vision:
The Disney Institute.
That's right. The Disney Institute.
WOW! Scoop! A glutton for punishment!! I'll leave this for a while and hope AV answers. He could do a much better job than I could (I'm surprised at the examples as AV has touched on all of these before!!). But if he doesn't I'll be back to answer!!Look at the concept behind AK. Disneyland Paris. Dinosaur.
Again. I'm not looking for a list. I'm looking at a conversation starter that may enlighten me as to these "great deeds" I always hear about, but quite frankly, don't believe. Maybe you could point me in the right direction.1) You must list the great deeds that have taken place during Eisner's tenure.
Not necessarily. If the concept was fostered within his management team, under his guidance and more importantly under the influence of his philosophy and the tone he set for his team then I am more than willing to hear it out. But it really doesn't make much sense to give him credit for Touchstone or Little Mermaid, for the obvious reasons that were stated in AV's post. I think that's fair. Isn't it?2) You must remove from the list anything that was someone else's idea.
Absolutely!! Like Truman. The buck stops with him!!3) You must hold Eisner personally responsible for all failures, since he was at the top, whether or not it was his idea.
I will agree that it might seem that way. And I don't want to stretch this point to absurdity. But I really didn't know how else to explain the resort examples any other way. In my view it's lost potential, plain and simple. Or at the very least a much narrower vision that what Disney once stood for. And again, this is not to say that his resorts are blatantly 'wrong'. It is only used as an indication as to his creative philosophy. Which, again in my opinion only, isn't very good!! Commonplace at best.4) You must remove from the list anything that was conceived as greater in scope, and was reduced because of $$.
As I said before, I would prefer that we leave Walt (and Miller/Walker) out of it. We should only use Walt as a yardstick or comparison of philosophies, not accomplishments.5) Eisner, as a financially oriented CEO and not a Walt, had no unique creative input that was solely his own.
...I'm not sure whether you're yanking me or not, on this. If you're not, we might be approaching a "Eureka" moment, here.In other words, was it the concept or rather the execution of the concept which doomed the Disney Institute.
The only way Eisner will get credit from all sides is if he has an original idea, develops it himself, and creates a raging success on a shoestring budget.
Yes, Mr. Air, that has been Baon's mantra...It is wrong, but still...Baron's point has always been that he hasn't. HE WAS A RAIDER IN DISGUISE.
...everyone's an "outsider" until they get hired; that's not the connotation of "raider" that makes the big difference, here.The fact is Eisner repositioned the comppany not once but twice from outsiders...If you believe Eisner is an outsider himself, then fine.
Yes! We did. It was when we first met. And I believe Parrothead of WDWBLUES fame (shameless plug of a GREAT site!) also participated in the conversation. You were wrong then and youre wro hmmm now that I think about it youre strangely silent now. Come on Capt!! Scoff across with the goods. Its from your statement that this thing came from. Name the Great Deeds youre always on about!!!...Didn't have almost this same exact argument with an infamous but well loved Pirate on the CB over a year ago?
I dont have to respond. You did it perfectly!!!I am sure Baron will respond, but I do not think this is Baron's agenda at all.
WAIT!!!! Thats only because I dont know of any back-story, one way or another. So, Ill err on the side of car number one, just to keep the peace. If AV or anyone else has the story behind, clue us in!wait, you do have to give him the Broadway/Time Square stuff. That one is his.
Ditto!!!In that sense of the term, I believe Eisner did indeed "raid" Disney from the inside.