This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[Lynne G]

You know, I am not sure criminal charges would have even been brought, if they quietly mourned. Instead, right away, lots of misinformation started, including a public interview on a TV show, then lawsuit.

I do see it as a tragic accident, and while I feel much for the family, but for the grandpa's actions, that sweet child may still be here. Let's hope the lawsuit gets dismissed, the criminal charges get settled with home arrest at grandpa's home in Indiana, and the family finds some peace with what happened.

 

[arminnie]

My husband’s grandparents are in their 80s. They’ve slowed down a bit, but I am pretty sure they’d still raise hell if anyone tried to call them “elderly.”

When my dad was about 85 he needed a new doctor. We lived about 3 miles from a brand new state of the art nationally recognized geriatric center at the med school.
He returned home (drove himself) from his appointment absolutely livid. His words to me “Why did you make me an appointment there? That place is for OLD people. “

 

[mummabear]

51 elderly??????
Oh next he will be using a walker when he shows up to court, like you know who.....pure act.
I became a grandma the first time at 44, guess I was elderly back then, now 11 years later, I got one foot in the grave..........please spare me.

I remember on Billions Axe said Dying in your thirties or forties? “Tragic.” Fifties? “Such a shame.” Sixties? “Too soon.” Seventies? “A good run.” Eighties? “A life well lived.” Nineties? “Hell of a ride.”

 

[Imzadi]

I became a grandma the first time at 44, guess I was elderly back then, now 11 years later, I got one foot in the grave..........please spare me.

How. are. you. still. even. alive???

You know the act of becoming a grandparent automatically ages a person an extra 15+ years. . . And you didn't even have to DO anything to become one.

This is you right before you found out you were going to be a grandma:

This is you right after grandchild was born:

 

[Searc]

A federal judge has ruled the family's lawsuit against RC can go forward. Disgusting and completely dismisses the grandfather's responsibility in causing her death.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-toddler-who-died-fall-cruise-ship-can-sue-royal-n1131976
(Posting only the link, as copying and pasting the entire article is considered copyright infringement.)

 

[sam_gordon]

A federal judge has ruled the family's lawsuit against RC can go forward. Disgusting and completely dismisses the grandfather's responsibility in causing her death.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-toddler-who-died-fall-cruise-ship-can-sue-royal-n1131976
(Posting only the link, as copying and pasting the entire article is considered copyright infringement.)

The judge didn't rule on the merits of the case, he ruled that RCI went "too far" in their motion. They're (RCI) free to refile the motion and just address what was in the civil case.

 

[ronandannette]

A federal judge has ruled the family's lawsuit against RC can go forward. Disgusting and completely dismisses the grandfather's responsibility in causing her death.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-toddler-who-died-fall-cruise-ship-can-sue-royal-n1131976
(Posting only the link, as copying and pasting the entire article is considered copyright infringement.)

Ridiculous - it should have been quashed, no question. Well, time now for the legal team over at RCCL to ramp up and destroy them and I’m extremely sad it has come to this.

 

[Searc]

Ridiculous - it should have been quashed, no question. Well, time now for the legal team over at RCCL to ramp up and destroy them and I’m extremely sad it has come to this.

I hope they do get destroyed, in their foolishness in pursuing this case.

 

[fly girl]

Ridiculous - it should have been quashed, no question. Well, time now for the legal team over at RCCL to ramp up and destroy them and I’m extremely sad it has come to this.

I've said it before, and I will say it again . . .

I really wish the family would move forward and drop this case. Focus on your son, and creating a happy legacy for Chloe.

I can understand denial, but only to a certain degree. No doubt they are still in the throws of true grief, it has only been a little over 6 months. But I do think on some level they have had to have doubts by now -- they had to have questioned what Grandpa really did. There is no way it hasn't crossed their minds. I also wonder, does everyone in their inner circle agree? Are they all just going along? I guess on some level they have to let the parents pursue what they feel necessary, but I wonder if anyone has spoken rationally about it to them?

The whole thing is so sad. But this lawsuit really does nothing for their grief, and hopefully not their pocketbooks.

 

[luvsJack]

I've said it before, and I will say it again . . .

I really wish the family would move forward and drop this case. Focus on your son, and creating a happy legacy for Chloe.

I can understand denial, but only to a certain degree. No doubt they are still in the throws of true grief, it has only been a little over 6 months. But I do think on some level they have had to have doubts by now -- they had to have questioned what Grandpa really did. There is no way it hasn't crossed their minds. I also wonder, does everyone in their inner circle agree? Are they all just going along? I guess on some level they have to let the parents pursue what they feel necessary, but I wonder if anyone has spoken rationally about it to them?

The whole thing is so sad. But this lawsuit really does nothing for their grief, and hopefully not their pocketbooks.

If I had to guess, I would guess that their inner circle either doesn't talk about it with them or says nothing. I mean these folks are still grieving. A loving friend is going to focus on that, not the details of what happened and who is right and who is wrong. I mean what friend would say "NO! Its all grandpa's fault?"

I would like to know, exactly what is their lawyer telling them? How is he convincing them to go forward with the lawsuit. What is he saying that he is seeing that comes to a different conclusion than anyone else?

Personally, I would be putting all energy, money, etc into Grandpa's defense. At the end of the day, even if he holds responsibility, it was still a tragic accident and the poor man does not need to do jail time. That isn't going to change anything. He is paying for his mistake every single day. But, I can't imagine what they are feeling or thinking and pray to God I never find out.

And, not to you Fly girl: but I think its really sad that anyone wishes this family to be "destroyed" in court or anywhere else. They are a grieving family who lost their child in a horrific way. Unless you have been in their shoes, I don't think any of us knows for sure what we would do. I would hope and pray that the lawyers for the cruise line would treat them with empathy, sympathy and as delicate as possible while trying to win this case for their client.

 

[fly girl]

If I had to guess, I would guess that their inner circle either doesn't talk about it with them or says nothing. I mean these folks are still grieving. A loving friend is going to focus on that, not the details of what happened and who is right and who is wrong. I mean what friend would say "NO! Its all grandpa's fault?"

I would like to know, exactly what is their lawyer telling them? How is he convincing them to go forward with the lawsuit. What is he saying that he is seeing that comes to a different conclusion than anyone else?

Personally, I would be putting all energy, money, etc into Grandpa's defense. At the end of the day, even if he holds responsibility, it was still a tragic accident and the poor man does not need to do jail time. That isn't going to change anything. He is paying for his mistake every single day. But, I can't imagine what they are feeling or thinking and pray to God I never find out.

And, not to you Fly girl: but I think its really sad that anyone wishes this family to be "destroyed" in court or anywhere else. They are a grieving family who lost their child in a horrific way. Unless you have been in their shoes, I don't think any of us knows for sure what we would do. I would hope and pray that the lawyers for the cruise line would treat them with empathy, sympathy and as delicate as possible while trying to win this case for their client.

My thoughts weren't with friends. It really lies in the other family members (particularly the other set of grandparents.) I absolutely don't think anyone would say to them "NO! It's all grandpa's fault," but I wonder if anyone in the extended family has discussed with them what it could mean (i.e., the stress and time focused on this may not reap any reward and potentially create more pain) and to switch focus to the future. Family members very well could have, and the parents told them to butt out. And it could have been discussed, but they know the parents have to deal with this in the way they see fit. (I can understand that last part very well. Family could have said their peace, but understand the parents need to deal with this in their own way.)

I do try to put myself in their shoes to understand it. Would my mom have a heart to heart with us about dropping this case? My guess is yes, she would. Doesn't mean we would listen, but it makes me wonder if they have someone not coddling them about everything.

You know, I agreed with you about Grandpa until I saw the videos. If he has seen it (and my guess is he has), then he has to realize his mind had played a self preserving trick on him. Watching it would be heart wrenching, so you take the plea deal and admit your fault. He is not doing that. Then in my mind, let the chips fall where they may. I think the jury will have some pity for him as I do, but if he does get jail time, I won't be angry. I am disappointed he hasn't accepted responsibility.

I don't want anyone to be destroyed. I wish the civil case would be dropped, and grandpa takes the plea deal, but it isn't up to me. I do feel RCCL needs to go in full throttle, which I truly believe they will to protect their brand/image. However, I hope they do so with the understanding this family is grieving. If they continue to handle it the way they have been, then it will be done this way.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I've said it before, and I will say it again . . .

I really wish the family would move forward and drop this case. Focus on your son, and creating a happy legacy for Chloe.

I can understand denial, but only to a certain degree. No doubt they are still in the throws of true grief, it has only been a little over 6 months. But I do think on some level they have had to have doubts by now -- they had to have questioned what Grandpa really did. There is no way it hasn't crossed their minds. I also wonder, does everyone in their inner circle agree? Are they all just going along? I guess on some level they have to let the parents pursue what they feel necessary, but I wonder if anyone has spoken rationally about it to them?

The whole thing is so sad. But this lawsuit really does nothing for their grief, and hopefully not their pocketbooks.

It’s cognitive dissonance. Despite all evidence to the contrary, they have to believe the fault lies with RCCL and that grandpa was also an innocent victim just like Chloe. Because the alternative is to believe grandpa, someone they loved and trusted and allowed into their inner sanctum, was capable of doing such a horrific thing (and then lying to them about what happened after the fact). If they believe grandpa was to blame, then they have to question the entire relationship they’ve had with him, their choice to trust him with their child, accept that their child would still be here today were it not for him, etc. Going down that road will ultimately destroy their relationship with him, as well as with the grandmother if she chooses to stand with her husband, with whomever else in the family might take his side, and could possibly destroy their marriage if one spouse continues to defend him while the other blames him. Their entire family could fall apart over this and, having already lost so much, that’s a very scary thought to have swirling around in your brain. So they choose to blame the faceless, evil corporate entity instead because that’s the safer place to be mentally.

 

[luvsJack]

My thoughts weren't with friends. It really lies in the other family members (particularly the other set of grandparents.) I absolutely don't think anyone would say to them "NO! It's all grandpa's fault," but I wonder if anyone in the extended family has discussed with them what it could mean (i.e., the stress and time focused on this may not reap any reward and potentially create more pain) and to switch focus to the future. Family members very well could have, and the parents told them to butt out. And it could have been discussed, but they know the parents have to deal with this in the way they see fit. (I can understand that last part very well. Family could have said their peace, but understand the parents need to deal with this in their own way.)

I do try to put myself in their shoes to understand it. Would my mom have a heart to heart with us about dropping this case? My guess is yes, she would. Doesn't mean we would listen, but it makes me wonder if they have someone not coddling them about everything.

You know, I agreed with you about Grandpa until I saw the videos. If he has seen it (and my guess is he has), then he has to realize his mind had played a self preserving trick on him. Watching it would be heart wrenching, so you take the plea deal and admit your fault. He is not doing that. Then in my mind, let the chips fall where they may. I think the jury will have some pity for him as I do, but if he does get jail time, I won't be angry. I am disappointed he hasn't accept responsibility.

I don't want anyone to be destroyed. I wish the civil case would be dropped, and grandpa takes the plea deal, but it isn't up to me. I do feel RCCL needs to go in full throttle, which I truly believe they will to protect their brand/image. However, I hope they do so with the understanding this family is grieving. If they continue to handle it the way they have been, then it will be done this way.

You may be right about the family. Perhaps someone has said something and were shot down so don't keep saying anything. Or perhaps the parents have an answer for every argument.

I honestly think at this point, one or both lawyers have to be presenting this case to them very differently than what everyone is seeing from these videos. These are intelligent people.

I know they can't discuss it with the law suits but I wish we could see a frame by frame explanation of the video from what they think happened. Maybe we could understand where on earth they are coming from. (not that I think they are right just totally confused on their thinking).

 

[fly girl]

It’s cognitive dissonance. Despite all evidence to the contrary, they have to believe the fault lies with RCCL and that grandpa was also an innocent victim just like Chloe. Because the alternative is to believe grandpa, someone they loved and trusted and allowed into their inner sanctum, was capable of doing such a horrific thing (and then lying to them about what happened after the fact). If they believe grandpa was to blame, then they have to question the entire relationship they’ve had with him, their choice to trust him with their child, accept that their child would still be here today were it not for him, etc. Going down that road will ultimately destroy their relationship with him, as well as with the grandmother if she chooses to stand with her husband, with whomever else in the family might take his side, and could possibly destroy their marriage if one spouse continues to defend him while the other blames him. Their entire family could fall apart over this and, having already lost so much, that’s a very scary thought to have swirling around in your brain. So they choose to blame the faceless, evil corporate entity instead because that’s the safer place to be mentally.

Oh I totally get that. I have said that from the beginning. I knew exactly why they pinned it on RCCL, so much easier to do.

But then I saw the videos. And I know someone who is close to them (even if it is the lawyer) saw it too. And when the video was leaked, they double downed on RCCL being at fault. Obviously, it is a coping mechanism. Eventually they will have to come face to face with reality. It will likely tear the family apart, which happens quite often when a child is lost. There is nothing good about any of this. Nothing.

 

[sam_gordon]

I know they can't discuss it with the law suits but I wish we could see a frame by frame explanation of the video from what they think happened. Maybe we could understand where on earth they are coming from. (not that I think they are right just totally confused on their thinking).

Just guessing, but they're not denying that Anello lifted Chloe over the railing (at least that I've heard). I'm not sure whether they believe he just put her on the railing, on the window sill, or somewhere in between. I think they acknowledge Chloe fell out of Anello's grasp. Really, the only things they can say are "the windows shouldn't have been open" and "Anello didn't know the window was open". IMO, if RCI could show a reasonable person could tell the window was open (I mean come on, he obviously leaned over the railing before picking Chloe up), that invalidates the latter.

The fact that there are lots of places on ship where you can stand and look over a railing (balconies, atriums, open decks, etc) in my mind at least, invalidates the former. All of those places are available to kids as much as the "children's play area".

 

[barkley]

Obviously, it is a coping mechanism. Eventually they will have to come face to face with reality.

they may not even be aware that they are using it as a coping mechanism. i see it being similar to people who lose family members to other types of senseless acts/tragedies and immediately throw themselves into activism supporting other victims/families of similar situations or working to change laws/circumstances they feel contribute to their type of tragedy. it keeps people busy, busy enough that they have less if any down time to deal with their grief. i'm not saying it's wrong (activism) but so many times on the true crime shows you see a parent who has engaged in this type of behavior for upwards of decades hoping for some kind of justice or resolution regarding the circumstances of their child's death-and then it actually happens, the person or circumstance is held accountable/someone is jailed or something is changed, but it seems that so many if not most of those parents reflect after the fact that they always thought that resolution would bring them the peace they sought but instead it made them realize it didn't, and they had to finally accept that nothing was going to bring their child back so the grieving process truly began.

 

[DLgal]

they may not even be aware that they are using it as a coping mechanism. i see it being similar to people who lose family members to other types of senseless acts/tragedies and immediately throw themselves into activism supporting other victims/families of similar situations or working to change laws/circumstances they feel contribute to their type of tragedy. it keeps people busy, busy enough that they have less if any down time to deal with their grief. i'm not saying it's wrong (activism) but so many times on the true crime shows you see a parent who has engaged in this type of behavior for upwards of decades hoping for some kind of justice or resolution regarding the circumstances of their child's death-and then it actually happens, the person or circumstance is held accountable/someone is jailed or something is changed, but it seems that so many if not most of those parents reflect after the fact that they always thought that resolution would bring them the peace they sought but instead it made them realize it didn't, and they had to finally accept that nothing was going to bring their child back so the grieving process truly began.

Yeah, unfortunately all they are doing is postponing the inevitable grief that they have to face head on. I've seen this a lot too, with people I know who have lost children suddenly and tragically.

 

[luvsJack]

Just guessing, but they're not denying that Anello lifted Chloe over the railing (at least that I've heard). I'm not sure whether they believe he just put her on the railing, on the window sill, or somewhere in between. I think they acknowledge Chloe fell out of Anello's grasp. Really, the only things they can say are "the windows shouldn't have been open" and "Anello didn't know the window was open". IMO, if RCI could show a reasonable person could tell the window was open (I mean come on, he obviously leaned over the railing before picking Chloe up), that invalidates the latter.

The fact that there are lots of places on ship where you can stand and look over a railing (balconies, atriums, open decks, etc) in my mind at least, invalidates the former. All of those places are available to kids as much as the "children's play area".

Even when they interviewed the man, it made MORE questions for me, not less. Like him saying, he nor the child could reach the bottom windows.

Well, if they truly think he only put her on the railing, they really have to have an explanation of what exactly he was doing when he leaned. I mean it really boggles the mind what their explanation for that is.

 

[fly girl]

they may not even be aware that they are using it as a coping mechanism. i see it being similar to people who lose family members to other types of senseless acts/tragedies and immediately throw themselves into activism supporting other victims/families of similar situations or working to change laws/circumstances they feel contribute to their type of tragedy. it keeps people busy, busy enough that they have less if any down time to deal with their grief. i'm not saying it's wrong (activism) but so many times on the true crime shows you see a parent who has engaged in this type of behavior for upwards of decades hoping for some kind of justice or resolution regarding the circumstances of their child's death-and then it actually happens, the person or circumstance is held accountable/someone is jailed or something is changed, but it seems that so many if not most of those parents reflect after the fact that they always thought that resolution would bring them the peace they sought but instead it made them realize it didn't, and they had to finally accept that nothing was going to bring their child back so the grieving process truly began.

Very true. Great point.

I actually applaud those who dive into activism and being busy. We never know how we will deal with such cruel circumstances, but just imagining it I believe I would have a very hard time just getting out of bed. It would be so easy to curl up in a ball and stay in that black hole.

At least on some level, however weirdly twisted it is, this lawsuit is giving the family something to get up out of bed for. They said they really just want the ship to be fixed. Which imho (like the majority) doesn't need to be, but like you said they are throwing themselves into a cause to do something.

I just hope they are focusing on their son most the day. He would be by #1 reason to get up for. I am sure he is their priority, at least I pray it is.

 

[barkley]

They said they really just want the ship to be fixed

and this may be their mindset on why they are continuing to purse this even in the face of new evidence. the thing is-the lawyer they have makes his money off cruise line settlements, not off design changes a cruise line might agree to do. he takes cases on a contingent basis and probably, if the parents are truly doing this to get changes made, sold them on doing this case the way it's proceeding b/c 'the only way you will get the cruise line to make changes is to hit them where it hurts most-in their pocketbook; when they do a big payout the won't want to do it again and will make those changes to save money'.

reality is-even if the parents start to see/accept what most of us viewing the video believe, they may be unable to drop the lawsuit. contingency attorneys commonly have it written into their client contracts that if the client decides to drop a case they are on the hook for all the accumulated expenses plus billable hours. you look at how much time that attorney is spending with the media alone-it's got to be a massive dollar total. if they continue on and the courts dismiss the case then it's no money out of their pockets, just a financial loss for the attorney. unless they are stinking rich they may get to the point where there's no turning back on cooperating with the attorney on the case despite any level of reality about the circumstances of their child's death that they've privately reached.