"turn off ALL devices..." ???

[hsmamato2]

Ok, I've flown for quite a few years, but this past Dec. trip was new....on SWA, when taking off/landing (like a 15 minute window on each) they make us shut every electronic thing off. Even a simple camera,or black and white e-reader,or kids handheld game. Is this a new thing everywhere? I found it very strange....they monitored us all very closely too to be sure we all complied...not 'cellphones in airplane mode'...OFF. anyone else know about this?

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Ok, I've flown for quite a few years, but this past Dec. trip was new....on SWA, when taking off/landing (like a 15 minute window on each) they make us shut every electronic thing off. Even a simple camera,or black and white e-reader,or kids handheld game. Is this a new thing everywhere? I found it very strange....they monitored us all very closely too to be sure we all complied...not 'cellphones in airplane mode'...OFF. anyone else know about this?

I fly two times a month across various airlines and they all have this announcement. The only time I don't have to power off is when I am on a private jet - but the wifi does not work until 10,000 feet.

 

[winthropf]

I have been flying for almost 40 years. This has always been the case for takeoff and landing.

 

[goofy4tink]

That's not new as far as I know. It's always been that way on all my flights.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's not new as far as I know. It's always been that way on all my flights.

Agreed. Basically, if it has an on/off switch, it needs to be off.

The theory is electronic devices could cause problems with the airplanes electronics. Although I heard/read something recently that studies have shown that isn't true and some group (FCC?) is asking the FAA to allow at least certain electronic devices to be on for take off/landing.

 

[taylor3297]

Agreed. Basically, if it has an on/off switch, it needs to be off.

The theory is electronic devices could cause problems with the airplanes electronics. Although I heard/read something recently that studies have shown that isn't true and some group (FCC?) is asking the FAA to allow at least certain electronic devices to be on for take off/landing.

This is the theory, but I am one who doesn't want to test the theory.

On a recent flight a lady, was playing words with friends and was trying to hide it from the flight attendant. She was caught and was asked to turn off her phone and put it away.

Do we all need to be connected every second of the day? What is the harm in a few minutes of not using an electronic device?

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

I agree, not a new requirement.

However, how many planes a day fly with electronic devices belonging to passengers running (intentionally or not), with no problems? Probably thousands. If these items were really such a danger, they wouldn't be allowed on planes at all.

 

[hsmamato2]

hmmm...ok. I probably never paid attention, but now I have a kindle for reading... It surprised me about the regular camera though<i'd never heard that either. I think what got me thinking about this was another thread with the title" I should have landed 15 minutes ago"....so the person was obviously using a device while circling/waiting....made me wonder if I'd just been missing all this.....
FWIW,I don't think it interferes with plane stuff either...and I don't mind turning stuff off(though I wanted to keep reading lol) it just seemed,really enforced. Last week we had to circle/wait for Airforce 1 to clear,and we had to keep everything shut down for about an hour.....

 

[goofy4tink]

Agreed. Basically, if it has an on/off switch, it needs to be off.

The theory is electronic devices could cause problems with the airplanes electronics. Although I heard/read something recently that studies have shown that isn't true and some group (FCC?) is asking the FAA to allow at least certain electronic devices to be on for take off/landing.

I've heard the same thing. They are looking at allowing certain electronics to remain on, not all but some of them.
Now, do I think that if I keep my cell phone on, and functioning, it is going to bring down the plane? Nope, doubt that. Otherwise, it would be pretty easy for terrorists, wouldn't it???

I'm sure that some electronics may be able to interfere with some onboard electronic stuff....but I doubt it's a huge danger!!

 

[sam_gordon]

I've heard the same thing. They are looking at allowing certain electronics to remain on, not all but some of them.
Now, do I think that if I keep my cell phone on, and functioning, it is going to bring down the plane? Nope, doubt that. Otherwise, it would be pretty easy for terrorists, wouldn't it???

I'm sure that some electronics may be able to interfere with some onboard electronic stuff....but I doubt it's a huge danger!!

I should have mentioned earlier, having cell phones in "airplane" mode makes sense. Think about how a cell phone works... it transmits to nearby cell towers. As you move, you get switched to another tower (cell) seemlessly (most of the time).

Speaking of receivers and transmitters, the higher you are, the further you can receive/transmit. So how many towers do you "hit" while flying (at least climbing & descending). I had heard the reason to keep cell phones off was more from cell phone companies than it was aircraft manufacturers.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I should have mentioned earlier, having cell phones in "airplane" mode makes sense. Think about how a cell phone works... it transmits to nearby cell towers. As you move, you get switched to another tower (cell) seemlessly (most of the time).

Speaking of receivers and transmitters, the higher you are, the further you can receive/transmit. So how many towers do you "hit" while flying (at least climbing & descending). I had heard the reason to keep cell phones off was more from cell phone companies than it was aircraft manufacturers.

The "airplane" mode shuts down the phone's transmit and receive functions - it's totally related to interference with the aircraft's avionics and not the cellular system.

edited to correct last part -

Cellphones are banned during entire flightsnot just during takeoff and landingbecause they can interfere with ground-based antenna capacity.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204781804577267304080904804.html

eta:

The reason they don't want you using personal electronics during takeoff and landing is that most personal electronics, even though they're shielded and not supposed to emit much, emit certain amounts of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference). While one or two devices might not interfere, a lot of them could interfere with aircraft pilot-ground communications, which is critical during takeoff and landing, when the aircraft is most vulnerable. If there is an emergency, the pilot needs to have clear communication with the Air Traffic Controller for emergency instructions and other necessary coms.

Cell Phones and Notebooks are the biggest RFI and EMI (electromagnetic interference) offenders - even though they're shielded, they still emit quite a bit of interference, and cell phones by their nature could theoretically directly overlap an emergency com frequency that the pilot is using.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_must_you_turn_off_electronics_during_airplane_takeoff

 

[sam_gordon]

The "airplane" mode shuts down the phone's transmit and receive functions - it's totally related to interference with the aircraft's avionics and not the cellular system.

Has there been any documentation showing a phone interfering with avionics?

ETA: If cellular technology interferes with avionics, why don't cell tower transmissions interfere? What about TV stations Doppler radar? Satellite transmissions (I know people who operate satellite trucks... broadcasting sporting events)? Sometimes an aircraft will fly through the "beam" being sent up to the satellite. Those planes apparently haven't had problems yet.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Has there been any documentation showing a phone interfering with avionics?

ETA: If cellular technology interferes with avionics, why don't cell tower transmissions interfere? What about TV stations Doppler radar? Satellite transmissions (I know people who operate satellite trucks... broadcasting sporting events)? Sometimes an aircraft will fly through the "beam" being sent up to the satellite. Those planes apparently haven't had problems yet.

The have been numerous incidents reported by pilots as well as tests, using personal electronics, onboard aircraft that recreated the reported incident.

As far as "why" and "why not" - electronic devices whether capable of transmiting a signal or not use RF in their internal workings. Regardless of the device these frequencies are typically all in the same, narrow range. It's these frequencies that have the potential to interfere with avionics (that use the same internal frequencies) more than the actual emitted transmitting frequency. The cell phone/iPad/pc is close to the aircraft's wiring . . . the weather radar, satellite truck are far away from the aircraft's wiring.

 

[yxjames]

14 CFR 121.306 - Portable electronic devices.

§ 121.306
Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.
[Doc. No. FAA-1998-4954, 64 FR 1080, Jan. 7, 1999]


I believe certain airlines allow their pilots to use iPads for electronic flight bags (EFBs) for navigational purposes only. The law is the law, obey it.

Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.306

 

[sam_gordon]

Interesting Blog... http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/beyond-bits-and-bytes/4395932/Mobile-phone-interference-with-plane-instruments--Myth-or-reality-

And hey... Mythbusters did find out older, unshielded planes could have problems... http://mythbustersresults.com/episode49.

But, if use of an electronic device could be so detrimental to flying, why aren't they banned? Shouldn't the TSA force us to check our electronics?

 

[sam_gordon]

14 CFR 121.306 - Portable electronic devices.

§ 121.306
Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.
[Doc. No. FAA-1998-4954, 64 FR 1080, Jan. 7, 1999]


I believe certain airlines allow their pilots to use iPads for electronic flight bags (EFBs) for navigational purposes only. The law is the law, obey it.

Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.306

Of course, no one is denying what the law is.

ETA: What you quoted must be outdated. According to that, we wouldn't be allowed to use any electronic devices at any time during the flight. We know that's not the case.

 

[yxjames]

I fly two times a month across various airlines and they all have this announcement. The only time I don't have to power off is when I am on a private jet - but the wifi does not work until 10,000 feet.

Private jets are classified under FAA Part 135 - charter (on-demand) operations. They are less stringent than airlines classified under FAA Part 121. 10,000 feet is known as the transition altitude in an airline pilot's world. Non essential activities relative to the safe operation of aircraft (i.e. chit chatting about what's for dinner) are prohibited at or below 10,000 feet.

 

[chartle]

Do we all need to be connected every second of the day? What is the harm in a few minutes of not using an electronic device?

I'm not taking sides, but people here have asked how are they supposed to listen to their fear of flying tapes er I guess MP3's during take off and landing?

 

[bumbershoot]

Agreed. Basically, if it has an on/off switch, it needs to be off.

That's how I've heard it countless times.

It really irritates my husband and brother, as they both have jobs in the electronics industry and know that it's not going to interfere with things (especially my brother, who has been actively involved in such things for about a decade now).

This is the theory, but I am one who doesn't want to test the theory.

On a recent flight a lady, was playing words with friends and was trying to hide it from the flight attendant. She was caught and was asked to turn off her phone and put it away.

Do we all need to be connected every second of the day? What is the harm in a few minutes of not using an electronic device?

What exactly is the difference between her looking at an electronic device (where she might interact with humans, albeit not humans right near her) and pulling out a crossword puzzle book? Very few people are going to just SIT there staring forward. They are going to bring out a book, look at SkyMall, go to sleep. they are doing something.

It's like people being annoyed with people who are on their cellphones in places deemed annoying. WHAT is the difference to someone not in my party if I'm talking to the person standing next to me, or talking to my aunt across the country? I'm interacting with people. Even if I'm texting, HOW is that any different than chatting with someone right near me? I don't understand the annoyance with electronic devices.

I should have mentioned earlier, having cell phones in "airplane" mode makes sense. Think about how a cell phone works... it transmits to nearby cell towers. As you move, you get switched to another tower (cell) seemlessly (most of the time).

Speaking of receivers and transmitters, the higher you are, the further you can receive/transmit. So how many towers do you "hit" while flying (at least climbing & descending). I had heard the reason to keep cell phones off was more from cell phone companies than it was aircraft manufacturers.

My husband was forgetful on a flight, and THOUGHT he put his phone in full airplane mode. It was not. It was an iphone 1 or 2 (which he despised), and had some sort of complicated method of putting fully into that mode, and by the time he landed in Germany, it had been pinging towers the entire way. Thank goodness AT&T was understanding, or that bill would have been very painful.

And then have to reimburse us for when they break? Or when they lose them? Or when they are left on the tarmac during a storm and are soaked?

 

[Jimsig]

One reason never usually brought up for the fact they don't want you using those devices is that they want you to be paying attention in case of an emergency and also the less stuff "out" the easier to evacuate. They say most things happen between the ground and 10k ft.

I work as a train conductor and I used to wonder about the 10k ft rule, but quickly realized why it's in effect. Usually once a day I will have someone miss a station announcement, try to exit at the wrong door, or something to that effect and they are usually wearing headphones/ear buds, and they always say the same thing "sorry, didn't hear you." People on the train also think it's ok to leave luggage or even a baby carriage in the aisle. I have had to quickly evacuate passengers from the front part of the front car when it looked like we going hit hit a loaded gravel truck that was stuck on a crossing and we had been traveling 60 MPH. The passengers not wearing headphones heard me right away, while it took those wearing them a few seconds to comprehend what was going on. Passengers who were sitting in window seats next to someone wearing headphones had to tap them to get moving. Luckily we stopped before hitting the truck, but it was close enough that when I got off the train I could touch the train and the truck at the same time. I know trains are different the planes but a lot of the basic safety issues are the same.