Unbalanced Resort Ressies

[SuzanneSLO]

It's worth noting that for SV studios at BWV and studios at OKW, it is not possible to just "swap" a date from Adventure or Choice Season to Dream or Magic Season. Under the Management Agreement in which the homeowners association gave DVC Management Co. the right to manage reservations, the ability to change points for any one night is limited to not more than 20%.

For the categories mentioned above, the studio is only 8 or 9 points per night. The 20% limit means DVCMC can't add more than 1 point in any one year to thse nights. But in Dream and Magic season, those units rent for at least 2 points more. So, any season swap would have to be implemented over 2 years.

This is also true for SV 2BRs at BWV. 24 points in Adventure or Choice could not be changed in a single year to 30 points for Dream Season. Maximum change is 4 points per year.

It would take a vote of 60% of the DVC members for DVCMC to be able to change the Season for these units in a single year.

For many other units, you can't move up 2 seasons in a single move. For example, for BCV Choice to Magic for a 1BR or 2BR would be more than 20%.

By the way, in the Management Agmt, DVCMC is given sole discretion as to wheter to change the points needed for any Use Day. The homeowners association, which does have a duty to the Owners, could terminate the Mangagement Agmt if DVCMC was abusing its discretion, but this is a pretty extreme remedy.

-- Suzanne

 

[tjkraz]

Is that what is meant by rebalancing?

The total number of points in a single RESORT can never change. But the points can be shifted around on the calendar.

For example, it would cost about 16,700 points to reserve a Two Bedroom Villa at BCV for an entire year. As long as that 16,700 annual total remains the same, DVC can charge whatever they deem appropriate for any single night.

To look at an overly simplistic example, October is currently in "Choice" season. A 2B villa during a weekday costs 32 points per night. May is in "Dream" season, a more expensive period where that same 2B villa costs 34 points per night.

The problem some of us see is that these seasons were created nearly 2 decades ago and were based upon the patterns of cash guests. DVC members have long had different vacation patterns. In the case of DVC members, it's undeniable that October is a more popular time to visit than May.

The number of points required for a night's stay should be based largely upon supply and demand. The periods when more people want to use their points should be more expensive. Those periods with lower demand should be cheaper, partially to help encourage additional visits.

In my truly simplistic example above, it is well within DVC's rights to move October into Dream season and May into Choice season. That is what is meant by reallocating points. It could also be a more extreme process, with different seasons created, weekend and weekday points rebalanced, individual weeks moved from one season to another, and so on.

The one previous reallocation occurred around 1996. I believe that weekend nights were made a little bit more expensive while the weekdays were reduced.

 

[salmoneous]

" and I have some question as to what is meant by "rebalancing".

Silly example:

Imagine DVC comes out with a new resort - the Villa in Cinderella's Castle. It rents for 1000 points / night. 365 familires buy memberships there, 1000 points each, for a total of 365,000 points sold.

Well, Disney soon realizes that different nights have different amounts of demand. Lot's of people want to stay in the villa on New Year's Eve - fewer people want to stay during February. Disney could then rebalance the points.

What Disney can't change is the total - it still must be 365,000 points for the year. But it could decide to make New Year's Eve really expensive and February cheaper. So it only charges 500/night to stay during the 28 nights of February. That gives Disney an extra 28x500=14,000 points to move elsewhere. It could move all 14,000 to New Years Eve, making it 15,000 points to stay that night. Or it could move those points to the whole week of Dec 25-31, making each of those nights 3,000 points. Or whatever.

 

[mprewitt]

it would cost about 16,700 points to reserve a Two Bedroom Villa at BCV for an entire year.

Wow, that's a lot of add-ons!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

It's worth noting that for SV studios at BWV and studios at OKW, it is not possible to just "swap" a date from Adventure or Choice Season to Dream or Magic Season. Under the Management Agreement in which the homeowners association gave DVC Management Co. the right to manage reservations, the ability to change points for any one night is limited to not more than 20%.

For the categories mentioned above, the studio is only 8 or 9 points per night. The 20% limit means DVCMC can't add more than 1 point in any one year to thse nights. But in Dream and Magic season, those units rent for at least 2 points more. So, any season swap would have to be implemented over 2 years.

This is also true for SV 2BRs at BWV. 24 points in Adventure or Choice could not be changed in a single year to 30 points for Dream Season. Maximum change is 4 points per year.

It would take a vote of 60% of the DVC members for DVCMC to be able to change the Season for these units in a single year.

For many other units, you can't move up 2 seasons in a single move. For example, for BCV Choice to Magic for a 1BR or 2BR would be more than 20%.

By the way, in the Management Agmt, DVCMC is given sole discretion as to wheter to change the points needed for any Use Day. The homeowners association, which does have a duty to the Owners, could terminate the Mangagement Agmt if DVCMC was abusing its discretion, but this is a pretty extreme remedy.

-- Suzanne

Wow, excellent information! I don't recall getting this info with my closing docs !

 

[tjkraz]

It's worth noting that for SV studios at BWV and studios at OKW, it is not possible to just "swap" a date from Adventure or Choice Season to Dream or Magic Season. Under the Management Agreement in which the homeowners association gave DVC Management Co. the right to manage reservations, the ability to change points for any one night is limited to not more than 20%.

For the categories mentioned above, the studio is only 8 or 9 points per night. The 20% limit means DVCMC can't add more than 1 point in any one year to thse nights. But in Dream and Magic season, those units rent for at least 2 points more. So, any season swap would have to be implemented over 2 years.

All very true but hardly a deal-breaker.

If there should be a decision to reallocate the points, the entire system currently in place could easily be scrapped. It may not be a case of moving from one current season to another current season, rather creating an entirely new set of seasons which all modifications subject to the 20% limit.

Even without the 20% rule, I wouldn't expect changes for any given night to be radical. Most changes would be +/- a couple of points per night. DVC would continue monitor and re-evaluate all dates, implementing further adjustments after a few years have passed.

Major changes--jumping up 3 or 4 categories in a single change--wouldn't even be considered. The member outcry would be deafening. Moderate changes would be more palatable.

It's often been asked here why DVC would consider making changes to the point charts. The answer to that question is simply because DVC has committed itself to doing so.

The POS specifically states that DVC: "...shall periodically make such adjustments...in order to respond to actual Club Member use patterns and changes in Club Member use demand for existing Vacation Homes and facilities."

While some seem to be portraying any reallocation as doing a disservice to members, or at least going with the "what's in it for DVC" argument, in reality DVC has a responsibility to reallocate the points periodically based upon the commitments made in the POS.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

All very true but hardly a deal-breaker.

If there should be a decision to reallocate the points, the entire system currently in place could easily be scrapped. It may not be a case of moving from one current season to another current season, rather creating an entirely new set of seasons which all modifications subject to the 20% limit.

Even without the 20% rule, I wouldn't expect changes for any given night to be radical. Most changes would be +/- a couple of points per night. DVC would continue monitor and re-evaluate all dates, implementing further adjustments after a few years have passed.

Major changes--jumping up 3 or 4 categories in a single change--wouldn't even be considered. The member outcry would be deafening. Moderate changes would be more palatable.

It's often been asked here why DVC would consider making changes to the point charts. The answer to that question is simply because DVC has committed itself to doing so.

The POS specifically states that DVC: "...shall periodically make such adjustments...in order to respond to actual Club Member use patterns and changes in Club Member use demand for existing Vacation Homes and facilities."

While some seem to be portraying any reallocation as doing a disservice to members, or at least going with the "what's in it for DVC" argument, in reality DVC has a responsibility to reallocate the points periodically based upon the commitments made in the POS.

I don't know if you realized it or not, but you just agreed with Dean!!

 

[Amy5000]

salmoneous and tjkraz:

Thanks for the explanation. If that's what's meant by reallocate, I don't really have a problem with it. I'm surprised that they don't make more of an effort to even it out in that manner. I thought that the orig poster may have been suggesting reallocating w/i the system (that is changing the value of certain DVCs relative to other DVCs).

Thanks, Amy

 

[tjkraz]

I don't know if you realized it or not, but you just agreed with Dean!!

I think Dean and I are of the same mind on a great many topics. I still have a different opinion on the extent to which 11-month bookings will grow in the near future. But whatever impact we might be moving toward, reallocation is the most direct means of addressing the situation.

 

[tjkraz]

I thought that the orig poster may have been suggesting reallocating w/i the system (that is changing the value of certain DVCs relative to other DVCs).

He may have but I think we took the discussion in different directions about 8 pages ago.

 

[Dean]

It's worth noting that for SV studios at BWV and studios at OKW, it is not possible to just "swap" a date from Adventure or Choice Season to Dream or Magic Season. Under the Management Agreement in which the homeowners association gave DVC Management Co. the right to manage reservations, the ability to change points for any one night is limited to not more than 20%.

For the categories mentioned above, the studio is only 8 or 9 points per night. The 20% limit means DVCMC can't add more than 1 point in any one year to thse nights. But in Dream and Magic season, those units rent for at least 2 points more. So, any season swap would have to be implemented over 2 years.

This is also true for SV 2BRs at BWV. 24 points in Adventure or Choice could not be changed in a single year to 30 points for Dream Season. Maximum change is 4 points per year.

It would take a vote of 60% of the DVC members for DVCMC to be able to change the Season for these units in a single year.

For many other units, you can't move up 2 seasons in a single move. For example, for BCV Choice to Magic for a 1BR or 2BR would be more than 20%.

By the way, in the Management Agmt, DVCMC is given sole discretion as to wheter to change the points needed for any Use Day. The homeowners association, which does have a duty to the Owners, could terminate the Mangagement Agmt if DVCMC was abusing its discretion, but this is a pretty extreme remedy.

-- Suzanne

I would assume that would round up and not down so we'd be talking 2 points on a studio. Also, they give themselves an out that essentially gives them carte blanch abilities to rebalance any area.

I think Dean and I are of the same mind on a great many topics. I still have a different opinion on the extent to which 11-month bookings will grow in the near future. But whatever impact we might be moving toward, reallocation is the most direct means of addressing the situation.

I think we're pretty close on most things and not as far apart as it might appear on this subject.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I would assume that would round up and not down so we'd be talking 2 points on a studio. Also, they give themselves an out that essentially gives them carte blanch abilities to rebalance any area.

I am not sure why you think they would (or could) round up if by rounding up they change the number of points by more than 20%. The Mgmt Agmt seems pretty clear that they need the consent of 60% of the members to make a change of more than 20% for any Use Day.

Not sure I understand your 2nd sentence. Does DVCMC have unlimited rights in another agreement other than the Mgmt Agmt?

--Suzanne

 

[Dean]

I am not sure why you think they would (or could) round up if by rounding up they change the number of points by more than 20%. The Mgmt Agmt seems pretty clear that they need the consent of 60% of the members to make a change of more than 20% for any Use Day.

Not sure I understand your 2nd sentence. Does DVCMC have unlimited rights in another agreement other than the Mgmt Agmt?

--Suzanne

20% of 8 is 1.6, that's 2 in my book but I can see the other side.

The 20 percent re-allocation limitation shall not apply to increases or decreases in home resort vacation point reservation requirements related to special periods of high demand based upon Club member use patterns and changes in Club member used demand...

Page 17 multi site POS Feb/06. To me this gives them the ability to say it's needed therefore it is.