We're flying 10.25 from Manchester.
That`s the flight we`re on too - if you see us say hello, look for a middle aged harrassed looking women and DH in a wheelchair!
Lets hope we get away on time. I'm presuming the strike would come later which would be good for us but bad for those involved!
We're past the middle aged mark - I will look hassled though too. Just the 2 of us - the grands would cramp our style!!!
Virgin strike ballot to be within 2 weeks
- Thread starter Obi Wan Kenobi
- Start date
Obi Wan Kenobi
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
Virgin Atlantics response:-
"The result of the recent pay ballot is now known and I can confirm that the offer was rejected by a close margin of 60:40 percent. We have been informed by Unite that they will conduct a formal Industrial Action Ballot. The timescales for this will be communicated to Union members by Unites legal department.
We believed that the most recent offer was fair and addressed many of the concerns you told us you had with the previous offer. Therefore I can confirm that this package stays on the table for the duration of the industrial action ballot. I want to be clear that this was the best offer we could afford, in Brian Boyds words this offer was the highest single percentage wage increase across all UK airline companies in 2007 and therefore we will not be entering into further negotiations.
We are now entering a very uncertain and damaging phase as the talking and negotiating has stopped and a series of procedures and rules come into effect, a number of which are outside of our hands.
You may have seen that Brian Boyd, Unites National Officer has already gone to the press, in doing so, very publicly threatening our operation and reputation. This is extremely disappointing after he had strongly recommended this offer.
Over the coming days its imperative that you are fully aware of the facts on how industrial action would affect you. I will be asking both our Human Resources and Legal departments to construct a series of fact sheets for our Cabin Crew so you are completely informed.
It is a very bleak end to the year and one which we had hoped we would be able to avoid, however our customers must continue to be our priority and I would appreciate your help in reassuring them during these uncertain times.
Linda Moir
Director of Inflight Services "
"The result of the recent pay ballot is now known and I can confirm that the offer was rejected by a close margin of 60:40 percent. We have been informed by Unite that they will conduct a formal Industrial Action Ballot. The timescales for this will be communicated to Union members by Unites legal department.
We believed that the most recent offer was fair and addressed many of the concerns you told us you had with the previous offer. Therefore I can confirm that this package stays on the table for the duration of the industrial action ballot. I want to be clear that this was the best offer we could afford, in Brian Boyds words this offer was the highest single percentage wage increase across all UK airline companies in 2007 and therefore we will not be entering into further negotiations.
We are now entering a very uncertain and damaging phase as the talking and negotiating has stopped and a series of procedures and rules come into effect, a number of which are outside of our hands.
You may have seen that Brian Boyd, Unites National Officer has already gone to the press, in doing so, very publicly threatening our operation and reputation. This is extremely disappointing after he had strongly recommended this offer.
Over the coming days its imperative that you are fully aware of the facts on how industrial action would affect you. I will be asking both our Human Resources and Legal departments to construct a series of fact sheets for our Cabin Crew so you are completely informed.
It is a very bleak end to the year and one which we had hoped we would be able to avoid, however our customers must continue to be our priority and I would appreciate your help in reassuring them during these uncertain times.
Linda Moir
Director of Inflight Services "
Obi Wan Kenobi
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
Just some background information.
Cabin crew are only allowed to work 900 hours per year. For this the starters will earn £10,000 plus away from home enhancements, very cheap flights etc etc.
That equates to 18.75 hours a week, around a part time workers hours, and their basic before enhancements comes out at £11 per hour.
Cabin crew are only allowed to work 900 hours per year. For this the starters will earn £10,000 plus away from home enhancements, very cheap flights etc etc.
That equates to 18.75 hours a week, around a part time workers hours, and their basic before enhancements comes out at £11 per hour.
Firstly I genuinly feel sorry for anyone that may be involved within the delays/cancellations that the strike may create and my heart goes out to you all BUT...(and now for the rant and the rave) I believe that airline crew especially Virgin are extremely underpaid for the professional job that they do!!! There are comments regarding working hours and pay but this does not take into consideration the time that the crew are away from there loved ones (anything up to 9 days) if you work out an hourly rate of pay based upon this it will be considerably less! Virgin are on a much lower pay scale than other airlines i.e BA that fly virtually the same longhaul routes! I really feel for people that have booked there flights but I also think that any company employees are entitled to fight for the pay increase that they believe they work hard for! 
Obi Wan Kenobi
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
Babystar
where do you get the nine days from?
the majority are away less than two days, something that happens in many buisnesses as a norm, paying a lot less per hour than Cabin crew. Most crew are single as they love the travel in any airline, and why long haul is the creme for singles (and short haul for the marrieds
)
You forget to add in the away from home pay, something many other businesses do not pay, plus the mates rates, the 10% total fare flights, the free meals, all add up to benefits other part time workers don't get, nor in fact many doing 37-40 hour weeks.
What is the pay rate of a soldier in Iraq?
What about Junior Doctors in hospitals? or nurses doing 12 hour shifts?
BA is rather like comparing Rover to Ford, much bigger company, much bigger routes and therefore more money coming in. But even they are feeling the squeeze.
How many people are prepared to pay much, much more for their flights to pay for the Millions of pounds more than the 4.8% pay rise for this year which is on the table.
(Hands up those of you not getting any pay rise this year or less than that)
They have trhe right to choose to go and work for BA, or any other airline if they do not like the wages. They don't, not because they love working for Virgin, but because the majority of airlines paying these higher salaries are cutting staff and routes, merging with other airlines because they cannot afford to have these fixed rate costs so high and perform in the increasingly price concious market place any more.
Why do you think more and more airlines are moving bases from the UK?
where do you get the nine days from?
the majority are away less than two days, something that happens in many buisnesses as a norm, paying a lot less per hour than Cabin crew. Most crew are single as they love the travel in any airline, and why long haul is the creme for singles (and short haul for the marrieds
)You forget to add in the away from home pay, something many other businesses do not pay, plus the mates rates, the 10% total fare flights, the free meals, all add up to benefits other part time workers don't get, nor in fact many doing 37-40 hour weeks.
What is the pay rate of a soldier in Iraq?
What about Junior Doctors in hospitals? or nurses doing 12 hour shifts?
BA is rather like comparing Rover to Ford, much bigger company, much bigger routes and therefore more money coming in. But even they are feeling the squeeze.
How many people are prepared to pay much, much more for their flights to pay for the Millions of pounds more than the 4.8% pay rise for this year which is on the table.
(Hands up those of you not getting any pay rise this year or less than that)
They have trhe right to choose to go and work for BA, or any other airline if they do not like the wages. They don't, not because they love working for Virgin, but because the majority of airlines paying these higher salaries are cutting staff and routes, merging with other airlines because they cannot afford to have these fixed rate costs so high and perform in the increasingly price concious market place any more.
Why do you think more and more airlines are moving bases from the UK?
I understand all of your comments, as to the 9 day question there is a flight that goes each day from LHR to SYD. I will corrext you on the comment that most crew are away for less than 2 days, there is one flight pattern at the moment where crew are away from there base for 2 days (normally 15 crew), all other flights are away for a MIN of 3 days. As for the benefits I agree with you these are fantastic but most company employees do get a perk!
I am unaware of the pay of a soldier so am unable to comment on this comparison!
You ask about the 12 hour shifts that a nurse would work but a very quick flight i.e a JFK this flight takes approx 7.30 hrs please also take into consideration the 2 hours before this flight departs that crew have to check-in also it is normally 2 hours after the aircraft has landed that the crew will finally get to there room to rest this flight does not require the crew to have ANY sort of break - not even 5 min to grab a bite to eat! And this 11.30 hour day is one of the shortest that we do.( I wont bore you with the details of a San Fran or Mumbai)
Everyone chooses who they work for but unfortunatly needs must! I think in an ideal world you could just swap and change companies to whom is giving the better pay/benefits offer but people need financial stability and although Virgin employees may fight for a better pay deal the majority are still very loyal to the company.
I am extremely passionate about this subject- I was as you said a single girl who flew long distance routes but on my travels found my fiancee, had a child with him and now we are both still very loyal to the company but believe (as do the majority of Virgin crew) that we are worth more than a 4.8% payrise.(oh and we have not had a payrise in what seems an eternity)
But still I will refer to my comment earlier-as much as I hope that we get a pay offer that we are happy with I also hope that everyone manages to go on there hols without any stress and I really feel for them-I think all Virgin employees would agree with me when I say that it is ashame that it has come to this!!!
I am unaware of the pay of a soldier so am unable to comment on this comparison!
You ask about the 12 hour shifts that a nurse would work but a very quick flight i.e a JFK this flight takes approx 7.30 hrs please also take into consideration the 2 hours before this flight departs that crew have to check-in also it is normally 2 hours after the aircraft has landed that the crew will finally get to there room to rest this flight does not require the crew to have ANY sort of break - not even 5 min to grab a bite to eat! And this 11.30 hour day is one of the shortest that we do.( I wont bore you with the details of a San Fran or Mumbai)
Everyone chooses who they work for but unfortunatly needs must! I think in an ideal world you could just swap and change companies to whom is giving the better pay/benefits offer but people need financial stability and although Virgin employees may fight for a better pay deal the majority are still very loyal to the company.
I am extremely passionate about this subject- I was as you said a single girl who flew long distance routes but on my travels found my fiancee, had a child with him and now we are both still very loyal to the company but believe (as do the majority of Virgin crew) that we are worth more than a 4.8% payrise.(oh and we have not had a payrise in what seems an eternity)
But still I will refer to my comment earlier-as much as I hope that we get a pay offer that we are happy with I also hope that everyone manages to go on there hols without any stress and I really feel for them-I think all Virgin employees would agree with me when I say that it is ashame that it has come to this!!!
Obi Wan Kenobi
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
babystar,
what you have said is no different to many jobs in this country.
I know of people who travel 1.5 hours each morning and night to get to a job at 8am finishing at 5pm or later.
this is normal in todays society unfortunately.
I won't go into the hours I work, as they break every EEC regulation going, but I am not the only one, but not to would mean others not having a job.
I know of many in my buisness (including me) who have not had a pay rise in three years as we are under tremendous pressure all the time against foreign competition, yet none of them would dream of striking for more than what is a great percentage increase.
By striking all that happens is that the cabin crew pizz off the people who pay their wages, the passengers, create nothing but ill feeling with them, causing themselves more stress on difficult routes and lose money (wages whilst striking, money never got back) all for a position where routes will be cut and crew will be made redundant/contracts cancelled, whilst the other hard working stiffs who have saved up some of them for years for that magical trip to Florida, see their holidays going up in smoke, with massive delays and loss of days holiday.
On the other side of the coin, the businessman who has to get to New york etc, will fly another airline and the revenue goes down and flights like after 911 get cut with subsequent more job losses.
Virgin crew have painted themselves into a corner. The last pay offer was a good one. By turning it down, they have only two options left to them.
To vote against a strike and take whatever the final offer is, or strike, loes jobs and money for possibly a small percentage increase which will not cover the losses they have made from striking.
Many businesses in the seventies had this problem. All that has happened is that contingencies were made of less permanent staff, more contract staff who wont strike and yes, more staff from foreign climes who do not have the British strike and complain about conditions mentality. Others moved their buisnesses abroad with consequential loss of UK jobs.
If I was Virgin, I would be considering these options for the future most seriously. You don't have to live in the UK to crew a UK plane anymore.
Weare all worth more in salary, but what we are worth and what we can acheive are two different thngs, as Virgin CC are yet to find out.
This will not end nicely for them. SRB has a lovely public face, but those who know him will tell you that under this is a complete ******* when he wants to be. Virgin cannot afford to back down now.
what you have said is no different to many jobs in this country.
I know of people who travel 1.5 hours each morning and night to get to a job at 8am finishing at 5pm or later.
this is normal in todays society unfortunately.
I won't go into the hours I work, as they break every EEC regulation going, but I am not the only one, but not to would mean others not having a job.
I know of many in my buisness (including me) who have not had a pay rise in three years as we are under tremendous pressure all the time against foreign competition, yet none of them would dream of striking for more than what is a great percentage increase.
By striking all that happens is that the cabin crew pizz off the people who pay their wages, the passengers, create nothing but ill feeling with them, causing themselves more stress on difficult routes and lose money (wages whilst striking, money never got back) all for a position where routes will be cut and crew will be made redundant/contracts cancelled, whilst the other hard working stiffs who have saved up some of them for years for that magical trip to Florida, see their holidays going up in smoke, with massive delays and loss of days holiday.
On the other side of the coin, the businessman who has to get to New york etc, will fly another airline and the revenue goes down and flights like after 911 get cut with subsequent more job losses.
Virgin crew have painted themselves into a corner. The last pay offer was a good one. By turning it down, they have only two options left to them.
To vote against a strike and take whatever the final offer is, or strike, loes jobs and money for possibly a small percentage increase which will not cover the losses they have made from striking.
Many businesses in the seventies had this problem. All that has happened is that contingencies were made of less permanent staff, more contract staff who wont strike and yes, more staff from foreign climes who do not have the British strike and complain about conditions mentality. Others moved their buisnesses abroad with consequential loss of UK jobs.
If I was Virgin, I would be considering these options for the future most seriously. You don't have to live in the UK to crew a UK plane anymore.
Weare all worth more in salary, but what we are worth and what we can acheive are two different thngs, as Virgin CC are yet to find out.
This will not end nicely for them. SRB has a lovely public face, but those who know him will tell you that under this is a complete ******* when he wants to be. Virgin cannot afford to back down now.
diddldonna
Disney crazy :)
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2004
I go on 19th Nov and i have been going on and on to my inlaws how excellent virgin has been on our lasttwo holidays, if they fail me and strike and make me look stupid, they will lose me as a customer. I was planning on booking a holiday to the usa for next year but i am going to wait and see what happens.
Fingers crossed everything goes okay.
Donna
Fingers crossed everything goes okay.
Donna
Obi,
Travelling time is something completely different to what I was saying-crew hve to check-in for thier flight 2 hours before, I have not taken into consideration my 2 hours driving time to get to LHR.
I dont want to get into a discussion about the rights and wrongs and pros and cons about strikes, all I am trying to say is that there are 2 sides to every coin and each side is entitled to fight for what they think they deserve and in their opinion is right!!
I truly hope that this ends happily for both sides-I go on holiday and save V.V hard to have 2 weeks away each year and I can feel for every single person whom is concerned about there up coming holiday and I do keep my fingers crossed for them that it all works out.
I know there are people in other companies who work long hours and for low wages but then it is THIER choice to do something about it and this is what the Virgin crew are doing.
I do value all your points raised though and honestly can see where you are coming from.
Travelling time is something completely different to what I was saying-crew hve to check-in for thier flight 2 hours before, I have not taken into consideration my 2 hours driving time to get to LHR.
I dont want to get into a discussion about the rights and wrongs and pros and cons about strikes, all I am trying to say is that there are 2 sides to every coin and each side is entitled to fight for what they think they deserve and in their opinion is right!!
I truly hope that this ends happily for both sides-I go on holiday and save V.V hard to have 2 weeks away each year and I can feel for every single person whom is concerned about there up coming holiday and I do keep my fingers crossed for them that it all works out.
I know there are people in other companies who work long hours and for low wages but then it is THIER choice to do something about it and this is what the Virgin crew are doing.
I do value all your points raised though and honestly can see where you are coming from.
Obi Wan Kenobi
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
Babystart I completly understand your position, I think however, that its now gone too far for either side to come out of this unscathed.
I have great misgivings where this will end up.
I have great misgivings where this will end up.
homerdog
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2004
Lots of very selfish thoughts on this thread! I am due to fly with Virgin in January and will be annoyed if my flight is disrupted, but my gripe will be with the company and not its employees. Virgin staff have a legal right to take industrial action if they believe their employer is treating them badly. It is a fact that they are poorly paid, and it seems that they have now decided to take a stand - good luck to them.
Obi Wan Kenobi
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
Of course in these situations there will be "selfish" thoughts, especially from passengers who may have saved up for years for their once in a lifetime trip to WDW only to see it potentially going down the drain.
I am sad to see however, there are still those who did not learn from the seventies and think its a "right" to screw up their employers, the type of attitude that almost destroyed this country then.
jharrowell
Disney Phreak
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2007
I fly on December the 5th and return of December the 15th and as with everyone else effected I'd be most miffed if my flight is delayed (more than usual, I had a 2 hour delay in September) or canceled.
Saying that however, I don't understand the background enough to know if it's the CC I should be annoyed with or VA, so I'll hold my righteous anger I think.
Let's see if I understood this correctly.
Assuming your info is correct and assuming the start date for the process is November the 2nd, that would put the earliest possible strike date is the 14th December, correct? (Which for me means outgoing should be ok, but return could be an issue)
If we could get this confirmed it'd put those people who are flying in November mind's at ease.
Saying that however, I don't understand the background enough to know if it's the CC I should be annoyed with or VA, so I'll hold my righteous anger I think.
Let's see if I understood this correctly.
Assuming your info is correct and assuming the start date for the process is November the 2nd, that would put the earliest possible strike date is the 14th December, correct? (Which for me means outgoing should be ok, but return could be an issue)
If we could get this confirmed it'd put those people who are flying in November mind's at ease.
mushumadness
<font color=ff6633>Shopaholic<br><font color=cc339
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2004
hi
obi we fly on november 28th is that the possible week the strikes on do you think?
Im just worried as I will have my two neices me and jordan gets very agitated and I guess I am panicking
obi we fly on november 28th is that the possible week the strikes on do you think?
Im just worried as I will have my two neices me and jordan gets very agitated and I guess I am panicking
Some very good comments on this possible strike. Let me put my opinion in. My wife and I are both nurses and work bloody hard all year to pay for our holiday. She is a general nurse I am mental health. Both of us have responsibilities that involve lives and freedoms. Our pay rise this year was finally agreed at 2.5% in Wales, less in England. As yet we have not received our increase or back pay, bearing in mind the pay should be dated back to April this year. If it is everyones right to strike, as seems to be some opinions here, how would people feel if all nurses decided enough was enough and walked out? Do you think 2.5% is a good rise?
jharrowell
Disney Phreak
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2007
Slightly OT but I just wanted to say that I think Nurses, Firemen (or people if you want to be PC), Police and other "front line" primary service employees are worth their weight in Gold.
Anything they offer you guys isn't enough.
Freaky
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
We are flying out Monday week, 12th, so by the sounds of it we should get away. Whether we get home might be another story and my mum won't be too happy as she is looking after the kids 
Everyone has gripes about their pay increase whether you work for a big multi-national company or small local one. In todays economy a rise of 4.8% is good. I work for part of a big financial company making millions and got 2.5% this year
Keeping my fingers crossed this all works itself out without any major disruption - Virgin will be sure to lose out on future bookings if a strike goes ahead.
Everyone has gripes about their pay increase whether you work for a big multi-national company or small local one. In todays economy a rise of 4.8% is good. I work for part of a big financial company making millions and got 2.5% this year
Keeping my fingers crossed this all works itself out without any major disruption - Virgin will be sure to lose out on future bookings if a strike goes ahead.
Hilary
There's always something new to learn!
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2000
Hmm, I read it differently -
2 Nov ballot papers out
9 Nov papers to be returned
7 Dec LATEST date for start of action
(we're booked to fly out 24 Nov and back 2 Dec)
I know we're still a way from knowing if there might be any strike action but, without being alarmist, what's the worst-case scenario if they do vote to strike?
I'm sure there are all sorts of variations depending on how many and which positions decide to take action, but it would help me to to make contingency plans if I knew what could be facing us! Disruption / delays / postponed flights / re-booked flights with other carriers / complete cancellation?
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