Why hasn't Disney solved the main/late dining debacle already?

[BruinEd03]

I did read your full post, and I understand the laws of supply and demand.

If your first idea doesn't work, that would suggest Main/Early is full. How can the $10 surcharge work in that situation? You can't charge a fee for a seating that ihas no space available.

It's not for the "same cruise." It's two alternative plans. In the first plan, you offer a $10 gift card per day per room. If Disney finds that after they have implemented the policy for 1 year, that there is still a shortage of people who voluntarily give up main dining to go to late dining, then they may consider implementing the second plan. Though, as you've sort of proved, people feel much more pain losing $10 than not gaining $10.

As for your iPhone example, it is somewhat flawed. Disney has a limited opportunity to sell a cruise ship. Once it sales, all empty rooms are essentially assets that are forfeited. In addition, the supply of rooms, will never increase from when it goes on sale. Thus, their goal is to maximize the amount of profits for the limited number of rooms.

On the other hand, an iPhone will have limited color quantities, but it will eventually be refreshed. Someone just has to wait. Now they are somewhat time limited in that a newer phone will come out, but all of the excess inventory will not be lost. Instead, they still have robust sales on those (especially for replacements for damaged phones).

 

[BruinEd03]

You're suggesting they monetize dinner seating? Like higher on the ship and you pay more for your view? I could see them doing this, but I don't like it. That's $70 for a 7 day cruise. Are you suggesting that's per person or per cabin? Because that would really add up. You might actually have the reverse happen... too many people wanting late seating. Or people who take late seating but just don't bother with the MDRs, so miss the 'shows' and there's a run on people wanting Cabanas right around early seating time. So then, Cabanas would have to be by reservation, probably at sign in time and then the first timers wouldn't have a chance at reservations.

It's meant to solve a problem. Again, I presented two options, pay people $10 GC or charge people $10. The $10 is not static - if too many people are flocking to late dining, then decrease it to $5. As for the specifics, my plan would be per cabin per day (to adjust for the variance of a cruise), but again the idea is just that, an idea. I'm also not sure it is that much of a problem. I'm just saying here is a proposal if it is a problem. The idea is that it provides incentives for people to go to the other dining option that does not have a resource problem.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

It's meant to solve a problem. Again, I presented two options, pay people $10 GC or charge people $10. The $10 is not static - if too many people are flocking to late dining, then decrease it to $5. As for the specifics, my plan would be per cabin per day (to adjust for the variance of a cruise), but again the idea is just that, an idea. I'm also not sure it is that much of a problem. I'm just saying here is a proposal if it is a problem. The idea is that it provides incentives for people to go to the other dining option that does not have a resource problem.

The whole process of taking a cruise is pretty basic. You get on a ship, the ship offers meals, entertainment, stops in different ports.

Once you start nickle and dimeing separate parts of this people will not be happy. Recently Holland America decided to charge people an extra $10 at dinner if they ordered more than one entree. And that went over like a lead balloon. People cancelled cruises, wrote bad trip reports, and basically raked HAL over the coals.

Giving one group of people a benefit ($10 gift card dangling in front of them to take late dinner) or charging another group for the reverse will most likely case the same backlash.

It's worked fine (on all cruise lines) to just let people pick their dinner seating when making a reservation. Once one of them fills up, then you don't get a choice. Life is like that. We make our choices based on what the options are.

I'm sorry if there are people that can't book early enough to get what they want, but that's the way it is.

I can only repeat that out of 9 cruises (where we booked late, and were initially on late seating), we were moved prior to the cruise to early. In many cases this is what happens. But not always.

I certainly hope DCL (or any other cruise line) will not entertain the suggestion to pay people to take late seating, or charge people who opt for early.

 

[squirk]

It's not for the "same cruise." It's two alternative plans. In the first plan, you offer a $10 gift card per day per room. If Disney finds that after they have implemented the policy for 1 year, that there is still a shortage of people who voluntarily give up main dining to go to late dining, then they may consider implementing the second plan. Though, as you've sort of proved, people feel much more pain losing $10 than not gaining $10.

As for your iPhone example, it is somewhat flawed. Disney has a limited opportunity to sell a cruise ship. Once it sales, all empty rooms are essentially assets that are forfeited. In addition, the supply of rooms, will never increase from when it goes on sale. Thus, their goal is to maximize the amount of profits for the limited number of rooms.

On the other hand, an iPhone will have limited color quantities, but it will eventually be refreshed. Someone just has to wait. Now they are somewhat time limited in that a newer phone will come out, but all of the excess inventory will not be lost. Instead, they still have robust sales on those (especially for replacements for damaged phones).

The analogy is not perfect but the point remains the same - "first-come, first-served" is a course of business recognized and accepted in virtually every aspect of retail business when supply is limited, be it staterooms or iPhones. Yes, the Apple store will get new iPhones eventually, and while you may have to wait days or weeks for new stock, you can eventually get the color and config you want if it's that imporetant to you. And Disney will introduce more cruises and more staterooms into inventory, and you can eventualy shift to a cruise that will allow you Early seating if it's that important to you.

Again, I like your first idea, as it's an optional carrot for early-bookers vs. your second idea, which introduces a stick for no real reason other than accommodating the late-bookers (who may or may not have had a good reason for booking late - who makes the call on that?).

For the 0.01% of people who ***** about current policy, I would bet my left hand that number would increase a thousand-fold with that $10 surcharge policy. And it would be totally unnecessary. So many other ways DCL could jack up revenue without a shift in policy that most people would deem patently unfair.

 

[CT Yankee]

We have always done the early seating, but the next time we cruise, both of our kids will be adults already so we may go with the late seating. We did always feel rushed to get ready for 5:45, and there is always so much food available on the cruise that we never really felt all that hungry for our dinners.

 

[BruinEd03]

The analogy is not perfect but the point remains the same - "first-come, first-served" is a course of business recognized and accepted in virtually every aspect of retail business when supply is limited, be it staterooms or iPhones. Yes, the Apple store will get new iPhones eventually. And Disney will introduce more cruises and more staterooms into inventory.

Again, I like your first idea, as it's an optional carrot for early-bookers vs. your second idea, which introduces a stick for no real reason other than accommodating the late-bookers (who may or may not have had a good reason for booking late - who makes the call on that?).

For the 0.01% of people who ***** about current policy, I would bet my left hand that number would increase a thousand-fold with that $10 surcharge policy. And it would be totally unnecessary. So many other ways DCL could jack up revenue without a shift in policy that most people would deem patently unfair.

Another proposal - hopefully less controversial. As part of the selection process ask people if they are flexible on dining and be willing to change dining times. If they are then they may be contacted by Disney if there is an imbalance to switch. They would not be obligated to switch, but they could if they choose to do so. Disney could then at their option opt to provide whatever magical pixie dust they deem worthy (or not) such as two free drink vouchers, or two free rainforest spa vouchers.

 

[DisneYE]

I’m sorry your employer wouldn’t accommodate your original sailing, and that you lost your Main seating and paid more money because you had to move to November. However, absolutely none of that is DCL’s concern.

Customers who commit early have to pick a seating, and if they ask for 5:45, what is DCL supposed to do? Tell them “Yeah, no, sorry. Even though you’ve placed a deposit and committed to sailing with us, there might be some people out there who haven’t booked yet because they don’t know if they can get off work or haven’t been able to scrounge up the deposit money. So, even though you are asking for 5:45 and we have 5:45 slots open, we’re gonna stick you in the Late seating so we can accommodate those other people“?

Is Apple supposed to sell you the new iPhone you want if you show up late on release day?
Is Delta supposed to offer you the seat you want if you book the day before your flight?
Is the movie theater supposed to delay starting the movie by 30 minutes because your boss needed you to work a little late?

I totally understand that these cruises are expensive, and you don't want your family to have to make any compromises for what you're paying. However, there are lots of other people in the mix who also are spending a lot of money on the cruise. Are they supposed to be disadvantaged because of complications in your life?

Man, what a reply.... Harsh but true.
I like this thread and I see it becoming a staple on this forum.
Maybe the mods will eventually close it as its getting a little flame-y.

 

[monarchsfan16]

I don't think it's a debacle. Inconvenience to some, yes. Not a debacle.

I also think part of the reason the wait list seems to start so early is because of seating. I assume they do seating assignments pretty close to sail date, since the match parties by group demographics. Plus you have all of the requests for private tables. Given that there is a finite amount of space in the MDRs, and quite the variety of groups, that has to be quite the process. I'm sure once they have initial seating charts done, more people are able to be moved off the wait list, based on spaces that still need filling. I hated doing seating charts for my wedding. I can't imagine the task they have for seating for the dining rooms.

There ARE some healthy snacks available. Room service has the cheese plate (cheese, crackers, and grapes: the All Hands on Deck), and there is a large selection of fruit available on deck. Those of us that are not used to eating late but have late seating tend to bring snacks with us onboard too (granola bars, etc) to tide us over. I generally eat dinner (and get HANGRY) about 5 at home (east coast), but do late dinner on the cruises.

I think part of what makes DCL what it is is the themed dining rooms and the total dining experience. If they were to go to flexible dining, a lot of that would be lost in translation. You certainly wouldn't have an effective show in Animator's, Tiana's, or Rapunzel's, for example. I think, just like you will never have everyone happy with the food being served, you're never going to please everyone with the dinner times, because dinner and food are such subjective things. I think they COULD definitely beef up their snack selection on board (snack food...not meal food) in between meals, which might help a bit, but no alternative dining plan is going to make EVERYONE happy.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

I find it hard to believe this is a "debacle". Those who really feel they need to feed their kids earlier have Cabanas, and the other counter-service locations, and the kid's club, and room service.

That being said, we always request late dining. Our regular dinner time is around 8:30pm. Yes, that includes our 6-year-old.

 

[Caboosey]

Of all the options to solve this, I think a 3:30 dining time is the most unworkable. It would be unprecedented on any cruise line in an MDR, and I suspect it would be poorly attended. On MSC, early dining is 5:30 or so, mid-evening dining is 7:30 or so, and late dining starts around 9:30. I honestly think eating dinner at 4pm or earlier is an anomaly.

A 3:30 dining time might do well on a Panama Canal cruise, if you know what I mean...

 

[Dug720]

A 3:30 dining time might do well on a Panama Canal cruise, if you know what I mean...

FWIW, my parents are in their late 70s and prefer late dining. Not all older people eat ridiculously early.

 

[smmco]

We’ve always had late dining. We started cruising when our kids were 6 and 7. It’s never been a problem for us. Bedtimes don’t exist on vacation. ..my rules.

 

[cktrotter]

I think a pretty high percentage get their first dining time choice that Disney does not view it as a debacle. However, I empathize with those that have to be waitlisted with uncertainty on vacation. We’ll pretend we’re helping as we always do second dining because our excursions are full day. Plus we often eat later at home because of our kids’ various activities after school & we own a business. We actually started jokingly calling it ‘second dining’ at home when we eat later. Haha!

 

[tvguy]

Let's face it, DCL researches everything to death. If people not getting early seating was a problem, they would do something. Us old timers remember DCL did take action when they discovered that charging extra for soda was a problem. Thus, soda is now no charge. DCL has been operating for 22 years, they have it down pretty well.
And two things are in DCL's favor in the dining time situation.
1) An awful lot of folks who wanted Early Seating and were forced to take Late Seating discovery have discovered Late Seating works well on a cruise vacation.
2) If people cancel because of an issue with not getting, DCL can resell that cabin at a higher rate, since DCL fares go up the closer you get to the sailing date.

I would also point out that in the big picture in the cruise industry as a whole, not just with DCL, there used to be just one seating on cruises, early. Late seating was added based on passenger demand in the overall cruise industry.

 

[tvguy]

I find it hard to believe this is a "debacle". Those who really feel they need to feed their kids earlier have Cabanas, and the other counter-service locations, and the kid's club, and room service.

That being said, we always request late dining. Our regular dinner time is around 8:30pm. Yes, that includes our 6-year-old.

I have to admit, my hat has always been off to people who work and have kids who could manage to get dinner on the table at 5 or 6 pm. If we were lucky it was 7 pm in the winter. Summer, with Little League, there were many nights when it was 9 pm, and it was only that early because we picked up fast food.

 

[Spiffy MacSpiff]

I have to admit, my hat has always been off to people who work and have kids who could manage to get dinner on the table at 5 or 6 pm. If we were lucky it was 7 pm in the winter. Summer, with Little League, there were many nights when it was 9 pm, and it was only that early because we picked up fast food.

Yep, same here. DH and I don't even get home until almost 5:30 most days. By the time we sit down to eat it's nearly 7:00 and that's when it isn't soccer or basketball season.

 

[Lisa F]

No cruise line can make everyone 100% happy as there will be a downside to any method of trying to get that many people fed in a narrow window. We usually eat around 6-ish at home and my kiddo is an early riser so we plan ahead and get main seating. First come, first choice is the way to alienate the least amount of people as child free people are not an insignificant part of Disney's market.

Just like at the parks, booking in advance has advantages.

 

[Lisa F]

I have to admit, my hat has always been off to people who work and have kids who could manage to get dinner on the table at 5 or 6 pm. If we were lucky it was 7 pm in the winter. Summer, with Little League, there were many nights when it was 9 pm, and it was only that early because we picked up fast food.

I'm a single mother to a special needs kid (so I have a fair amount of hands on involvement in homework) and I work full time and we are usually done with dinner by 6:30. I meal prep for the week on the weekends so it's quick and easy to get dinner on the table and my son's after school activities are done by 6 at the latest (Hebrew school and theater.) It's just enlightened self interest, I already don't sit down til 10pm and can't imagine what a later dinner would go to that schedule! Also my son is on meds that affect appetite, he is ravenous by about 5:45-6pm when they are coming out of his system. It's really not a miracle, just a priority! I like to have dinner done and cleaned up so I can spend some time with him before bedtime... He really wants/needs the attention.

 

[MomOTwins]

Is Apple supposed to sell you the new iPhone you want if you show up late on release day?
Is Delta supposed to offer you the seat you want if you book the day before your flight?
Is the movie theater supposed to delay starting the movie by 30 minutes because your boss needed you to work a little late?

Actually I think all of these examples only confirm why Disney's system is a bit absurd. We're not talking about a last-minute booking here, we're talking about giving main dining to people who book a year and a half in advance but not 9 months in advance. And we're not talking about a situation in which everything is sold out--far from it: there are plenty of main dining seats available 9 months out, but Disney hides them from view and puts everyone on a waitlist. I can't think of anything else that requires planning that far ahead--even DVC lets you book much closer in time to your vacation than DCL.

Per your analogies, no I don't think that if I show up 30 minutes for embarkation I should be let on, nor that I should be allowed to book a day before the cruise and expect everything to be available. But I also don't think I should have to book movie tickets, flights, or iphones 18 months ahead of time to have a chance of getting one. There is some reasonable in-between where Disney could make it possible to book main dining without having to know plans a year plus ahead of time, especially when there are lots of spaces left. As I said before, I would actually be fine if they had TRUE first-come first-serve, where they allow you to book main dining until it is full. This "we have lots of spaces but we are going to waitlist you and then refuse to tell you anything about how the waitlist works and may end up giving your spot to people who come after you on the ship even though we had spots to give and just didn't" is what frustrates me.

 

[tvguy]

I'm a single mother to a special needs kid (so I have a fair amount of hands on involvement in homework) and I work full time and we are usually done with dinner by 6:30. I meal prep for the week on the weekends so it's quick and easy to get dinner on the table and my son's after school activities are done by 6 at the latest (Hebrew school and theater.) It's just enlightened self interest, I already don't sit down til 10pm and can't imagine what a later dinner would go to that schedule! Also my son is on meds that affect appetite, he is ravenous by about 5:45-6pm when they are coming out of his system. It's really not a miracle, just a priority! I like to have dinner done and cleaned up so I can spend some time with him before bedtime... He really wants/needs the attention.

You are aware the DCL does give priority to those with medical needs?