Why the single mom with kids argument?

[DLgal]

But you said: "I mean, we all know they can slum it at a motel on International Drive, and just get day tickets, but even those have become prohibitively expensive to the point that it's not an option for a large swath of people who formerly could make it work."


Seriously? - why not use the timing right after the 4th of July or at the end of July where they are back down to $176 a night? ... I couldn't find an end of June number because they are all booked up. I think we know this variability has more to do with remaining inventory left at 30 days which is why I used the 60 day period in the first place - it was only a $16 difference for a base room anyway as it turns out.

Christmas week is in the $239-300 range from a seasonality perspective to be fair in the discussion.

Whether they are worth it or not, or how much it is actually worth, is up to the person booking them - my question was in light of the OP's observation, your take and observations on room cost for Disney Value Hotels. It seemed high and that's why I asked. Depending on how this fictional single mother family of four is being portrayed - $176/night isn't inexpensive either.

"Those" meaning the day tickets to the park.

 

[DLgal]

What were you asking about?

I'm lost at this point too, honestly.

 

[john7994]

I'm lost at this point too, honestly.

No worries. I was a bit lost on the costs being suggested as well, so I can definitely relate to that feeling too, honestly.

 

[Jrb1979]

No worries. I was a bit lost on the costs being suggested as well, so I can definitely relate to that feeling too, honestly.

The thread isn't so much about the cost of things. Since Covid Disney has changed who they market to. A lot of times it feels like they have lost touch of the clientele that got them here. I don't fully believe it has anything do with demand. They aren't going to turn people away but they are more interested in upper class over your average family.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

There is absolutely no point in staying on disney property…but if you do more power to you and your choices

 

[john7994]

The thread isn't so much about the cost of things. Since Covid Disney has changed who they market to. A lot of times it feels like they have lost touch of the clientele that got them here. I don't fully believe it has anything do with demand. They aren't going to turn people away but they are more interested in upper class over your average family.

So what are you proposing to correct this lost touch of the clientele that got them there?

 

[Jrb1979]

So what are you proposing to correct this lost touch of the clientele that got them there?

Disney has always been expensive so I don't expect them to lower prices. The Extra Magic Hours that Deluxe guests get should be extended to all resorts. That would help a lot.

 

[john7994]

Disney has always been expensive so I don't expect them to lower prices. The Extra Magic Hours that Deluxe guests get should be extended to all resorts. That would help a lot.

Ok, I am good with that - what about those in that clientele group that you mentioned that are staying off site - what do they get?

 

[Jrb1979]

Ok, I am good with that - what about those in that clientele group that you mentioned that are staying off site - what do they get?

You can't please everyone.

There is lot of people who stay at the All-Stars cause they want to stay in the bubble but also can't afford the next level up.

 

[john7994]

You can't please everyone.

There is lot of people who stay at the All-Stars cause they want to stay in the bubble but also can't afford the next level up.

I could not agree with you more.
But, I am gonna have to start calling you Bob 3.0 ... I think you might have lost touch with the clientele that got you there

 

[Jrb1979]

I could not agree with you more.
But, I am gonna have to start calling you Bob 3.0 ... I think you might have lost touch with the clientele that got you there

I think you're missing the point. It's not about pleasing everyone more so catering to your high end guest over your average guest. I personally believe there should be a balance.

 

[john7994]

I think you're missing the point. It's not about pleasing everyone more so catering to your high end guest over your average guest. I personally believe there should be a balance.

Oh I got the point - CEOing is hard

I understand you are suggesting that Disney only caters (or somehow caters more) to the Deluxe crowd. I get why it might seem like that but I don't think its as significant as you might think it is - which by the way - is a huge source of contention to the DVC crowd these days - especially those without AP access.

While I think the perk of Extended Park Hours for Deluxe Only is a bit on the "icky" side (even though I am DVC), the reality is a little complicated in trying to cater to all cohorts as well - because we can't please everyone all the time. If everyone gets everything - then there is no real benefit to paying more for anything - what's the point of it all?

I also think its a bit of a miss to suggest that higher-end clientele (not talking about 1%'ers here - the Deluxe Category) didn't also contribute to building Disney into what it is today either.

 

[Jrb1979]

Oh I got the point - CEOing is hard

I understand you are suggesting that Disney only caters (or somehow caters more) to the Deluxe crowd. I get why it might seem like that but I don't think its as significant as you might think it is - which by the way - is a huge source of contention to the DVC crowd these days - especially those without AP access.

While I think the perk of Extended Park Hours for Deluxe Only is a bit on the "icky" side (even though I am DVC), the reality is a little complicated in trying to cater to all cohorts as well - because we can't please everyone all the time. If everyone gets everything - then there is no real benefit to paying more for anything - what's the point of it all?

I also think its a bit of a miss to suggest that higher-end clientele (not talking about 1%'ers here - the Deluxe Category) didn't also contribute to building Disney into what it is today either.

You can point that to Genie+ as well when they do eventually cap it.

 

[Fiji271]

Lots of good points being made. I feel like Universal will raise prices once they have taken some of Disney’s market share. (Just like every other company that enters a market. Apple, Hyunda, Southwest Airlines, Netflix, etc).
I also agree that most families that visit Disney are not “average” on the income scale.

 

[john7994]

You can point that to Genie+ as well when they do eventually cap it.

Screws everyone equally and Hunger Games' the commodity of line skipping but will likely still skew towards the Deluxe crowd again because they will also charge more for it while they artificially reduce the supply.

 

[john7994]

Lots of good points being made. I feel like Universal will raise prices once they have taken some of Disney’s market share. (Just like every other company that enters a market. Apple, Hyunda, Southwest Airlines, Netflix, etc).
I also agree that most families that visit Disney are not “average” on the income scale

Universal isn't immune to a price increase here and there - they got a third gate to pay for heading into a potential recession

 

[Her Dotness]

"Average" families can go, and shouldn't be priced out to cater to the above-average and wealthy families. There has always been additional offerings for this group - club level, holiday parties, dessert firework viewing parties, back stage tours, and on and on and on and on.

The basic - get in the park and have fun - should be priced at a level that the average family can afford. It doesn't matter if average families stay in the nearest Quality Inn and bring in their lunch and leave for dinner, they should still get to experience the magic.

My question is how we can quantify what exactly an average family is where Disney trips are concerned.

I think a lot of us are still harkening back to the belief that Walt Disney's focus was upon providing a place offering wholesome entertainment for "the average American family." That was just a "feel-good" appeal to encourage people to believe he cared about them. What he really cared about was making more money.

Following his example, Disney the corporation focuses their efforts on targeting the people who'll come and spend. If Disney marketing research shows that offering more perks to Deluxe resort guests brings in more money than offering them to Value or Mod guests, what do we really think Disney likely to do? Fairness to the Value or Mod guest isn't the object. That's why Disney trips are advertised as making dreams come true, thus inspiring people to come and probably spend more than they anticipated--or even should.

The hurt feelings that Disney doesn't care anymore about offering "something for everyone" are ours and briefly those of the vloggers highlighting them to keep or draw an audience.

Much though many of us are fond of that iconic "average family" or Ryno's single mom with 4 kids going to Disney often, the reality is that Disney doesn't really care about making the product more affordable as long as parks and hotels are crowded. THEY NEVER HAVE when people are still coming and spending money.

 

[MamaBelle4]

THEY NEVER HAVE when people are still coming and spending money.

If that were the case, tiered hotels would have never been constructed.

Promotions and discounts are temporary - vast buildings are much less so.

 

[Her Dotness]

If that were the case, tiered hotels would have never been constructed.

That's not really the point of the "single mom" argument.

It's more about what will finally cause people to stop returning, because there's more talk about not coming back due to prices increasing with reduced service and fewer niceties.

That's what the affordability concern primarily involves as I see it.

More crassly, those who can afford it are whining increasingly about not feeling loved as much as they once did. Pete put that directly as a good deal of the cause of the unhappiness being expressed here as well as spurring the increased number of DVC contracts on the market.

ETA: That's what the OP nailed with these statements: "Crowds would be even more unbearable than they currently are. Economics 101 says Lower price = more demand."

Those of us able to return and wishing to keep doing so are upset about paying more and getting less, particularly getting fewer things free. We don't care about affordability for more people; the OP stated a significant reason why we don't.

Anybody arguing that Disney ought to be made more affordable more likely means "Disney should make it more affordable for ME."

 

[fumanchu2488]

If that were the case, tiered hotels would have never been constructed.

Promotions and discounts are temporary - vast buildings are much less so.

Those hotels were only constructed once Disney realized people were willing to stay in lesser accommodations off site and drive in every day. It was there response to the Kissimmee Econolodge.

I think to the original point, why does Disney have any obligation to lower there price? Demand is still huge and International travel is still lagging.

Lastly, I hate the argument they make of “well wait 10 years”. Disney has generational families now and can easily target the higher income groups. For example, we know a family who went to Disney 30 years ago with their 3 kids. Higher income group. That family is now 19 people including grandkids and marriage and they still take their yearly trip to Poly. I think there are as many of those people as there are single mom with 4 kids people. That to say I don’t think Disney really has to worry about demand or targeting lower income individuals.