Spanking

[Hikergirl]

No. In the cases I’m talking about, it was more like no high school diploma. But, it’s not the formal education was the bench mark. It’s more that these were ppl who didn’t know better for most things b/c they had never been taught.

Ok, I was going to answer you but I honestly don't know where you are going with this.
They didn't know better meaning what? That they weren't specifically taught how to discipline their children the "correct" way, which to you involves no spanking?
Do you feel if they graduated HS, went on to college that somehow they wouldn't spank their children?

 

[Domo]

I was spanked as a kid and turned out to be Domo. 'Nuff said.

 

[LSUmiss]

Ok, I was going to answer you but I honestly don't know where you are going with this.
They didn't know better meaning what? That they weren't specifically taught how to discipline their children the "correct" way, which to you involves no spanking?
Do you feel if they graduated HS, went on to college that somehow they wouldn't spank their children?

No maybe you are unfamiliar with the demographic I’m talking about. This is was at an urban center where most ppl were poor & uneducated (formally and otherwise). They didn’t know better about a lot of things. I think when ppl say ppl are uneducated they don’t necessarily mean formally educated.

 

[Hikergirl]

No maybe you are unfamiliar with the demographic I’m talking about. This is was at an urban center where most ppl were poor & uneducated (formally and otherwise). They didn’t know better about a lot of things.

I understand who you are referring too.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think that’s interesting about your opinion of not agreeing that it’s never ok to hit. Do you mean other than true self defense? Are the other instances?

Self defense immediately comes to mind. IMO, if there is ANY reason (and self defense would be one) one is excused for hitting another, then you can't say "you should never hit." Then again, I've very literal.

What I meant about I’m ok with a swat on the butt is that I don’t think it’s the same & I doubt that any of the research is based on a few instances of kids being popped on the butt.

That to me IS "spanking". If you're ok with that (and that's how I read your post), then you're ok with an adult striking a child.

I agree with a pp who said that part of the issue with this debate is that ppl have different definitions of spanking. I can tell you that when I saw parents most of they’re definition of spanking was much more than a an occasional swat on the butt. It was almost always with a belt or other item or was a slap to the face or something that was pretty violent & disturbing.

That was actually me that said that. Hitting with a belt or other item to me is NOT "spanking". I'm not sure what I'd call it (other than "paddling" if you used a paddle).

I know that’s not all cases, but it was hundreds over the years. And, like I said in a pp, it was never effective for those kids so it was pointless. That experience has negatively skewed my opinion of spanking that I admit I am not even willing to consider that any of that I saw was acceptable. But, I suspect not everyone here who is condoning spanking is just talking about an occasional swat of the butt & I honestly can’t see how any of the other kinds can be justified. There was a case here where a father killed his young teenage son b/c he wouldn’t sit still for his “whipping”. Everyone testified that the kids were not abused. The boy died when the “paddle” (some kinda piece of wood) came down on the boys head b/c he turned around mid whipping. The boy died from a brain bleed. He was just not once, but in the exact wrong place. The dad was trying to whip the boys butt. It’s tragic & some may think it’s extreme & couldn’t apply to their situation. But, I have seen a lot of parents justify their version of corporal punishment b/c that’s what was done to them & “they turned out ok”. So my question is to those that think it’s ok, what is an acceptable form? What are you calling “spanking”? I can appreciate that I may be misinformed of what ppl are actually doing.

I think the father in that case deserved at least a manslaughter charge.

To me:
Spanking: hand hitting child's (usually clothed) behind. Can be anywhere from 1-3 smacks. Any pain (to the child) should be temporary (ie: subsides within 30 minutes). Totally acceptable in my book.
Paddling: Using a board (usually cut to a certain shape) to hit a child's behind. Any pain to the child should be temporary (subsides within an hour). Acceptable in certain situations.
Whipping: Using a belt or a "switch" to hit a child's behind. Pain should be temporary (subsides within an hour). I wouldn't do this, but aren't going to criticize parents who do.
Beating: Using any device (hand, board, belt, switch, anything) to hit the child in more than one location and repeatedly. This is not acceptable.

 

[LSUmiss]

Self defense immediately comes to mind. IMO, if there is ANY reason (and self defense would be one) one is excused for hitting another, then you can't say "you should never hit." Then again, I've very literal.
That to me IS "spanking". If you're ok with that (and that's how I read your post), then you're ok with an adult striking a child.


That was actually me that said that. Hitting with a belt or other item to me is NOT "spanking". I'm not sure what I'd call it (other than "paddling" if you used a paddle).

I think the father in that case deserved at least a manslaughter charge.

To me:
Spanking: hand hitting child's (usually clothed) behind. Can be anywhere from 1-3 smacks. Any pain (to the child) should be temporary (ie: subsides within 30 minutes). Totally acceptable in my book.
Paddling: Using a board (usually cut to a certain shape) to hit a child's behind. Any pain to the child should be temporary (subsides within an hour). Acceptable in certain situations.
Whipping: Using a belt or a "switch" to hit a child's behind. Pain should be temporary (subsides within an hour). I wouldn't do this, but aren't going to criticize parents who do.
Beating: Using any device (hand, board, belt, switch, anything) to hit the child in more than one location and repeatedly. This is not acceptable.

Yeah the father did get convicted. I think it was manslaughter. I can see your point about the swat on a butt. But, I just can’t understand any more than that although I really think I have tried. Guess it’s just one of those things. For whipping you said you wouldn’t do it but wouldn’t criticize someone who does. Why wouldn’t you do it then?

 

[Domo]

But that isn't at all what you said in your OP. You said the mother got close to spanking her kid. Nothing about her dropping his trousers down and getting spanked. That is much different.

What can I say? When I was spanked, my mum dropped my pants and gave me a short slap on teh booty. Struck me as the norm. For the record, I don't know if it did me any good or not. Probably in retrospect TMI for this thread...

 

[EveDallas]

This post is exactly why I refuse to respond to you.

Exactly. What's the point in talking to someone when all they want to do is point out how wrong you are?

 

[LSUmiss]

Exactly. What's the point in talking to someone when all they want to do is point out how wrong you are?

I think I explained quite clearly that it is the only experience I had so I was interested in hearing from someone who challenged my previous observations. I think that’s how most controversial conversations usually go. Disagreeing can be part of it. I don’t see the point in continuing to waste your time following a thread if you have nothing meaningful to contribute other than the occasional jab.

 

[luvsJack]

Self defense immediately comes to mind. IMO, if there is ANY reason (and self defense would be one) one is excused for hitting another, then you can't say "you should never hit." Then again, I've very literal.
That to me IS "spanking". If you're ok with that (and that's how I read your post), then you're ok with an adult striking a child.


That was actually me that said that. Hitting with a belt or other item to me is NOT "spanking". I'm not sure what I'd call it (other than "paddling" if you used a paddle).

I think the father in that case deserved at least a manslaughter charge.

To me:
Spanking: hand hitting child's (usually clothed) behind. Can be anywhere from 1-3 smacks. Any pain (to the child) should be temporary (ie: subsides within 30 minutes). Totally acceptable in my book.
Paddling: Using a board (usually cut to a certain shape) to hit a child's behind. Any pain to the child should be temporary (subsides within an hour). Acceptable in certain situations.
Whipping: Using a belt or a "switch" to hit a child's behind. Pain should be temporary (subsides within an hour). I wouldn't do this, but aren't going to criticize parents who do.
Beating: Using any device (hand, board, belt, switch, anything) to hit the child in more than one location and repeatedly. This is not acceptable.

These are my definitions too. I would be interested in definitions from other posters. Because it keeps going back and forth that swats are ok, spanking is not. I define swats on the butt as spanking.



To the pp that asked me what I meant by spankings with a belt. I tried to correct what I called "whipping" because I felt that some were thinking of something else entirely than the above definitions.

 

[North of Mouse]

I spanked my boys. They are grown men now who have turned out fine; for the most part!!

We did too for our three - now grown. Actually, they really didn't need very many spankings as we said what we meant and meant what we said, and they well knew it. We seldom disciplined in public as we didn't need to - they knew what 'the look' meant!

 

[yoopermom]

It's a hard subject for me, because my DB and I weren't spanked, but it was more because of our placid personalities than our parents not believing in it. DS was such a stubborn, willful child that we only spanked him once or twice, and it was immediate due to him putting himself into a dangerous situation (running into traffic, for example).

Maybe it was simplistic, but we parented with the "no means no" philosophy. It seems to me that many situations wouldn't escalate if boundaries were clearly set, consequences were clear, and one simple "no" from a parent was "no".

Terri

 

[LSUmiss]

It's a hard subject for me, because my DB and I weren't spanked, but it was more because of our placid personalities than our parents not believing in it. DS was such a stubborn, willful child that we only spanked him once or twice, and it was immediate due to him putting himself into a dangerous situation (running into traffic, for example).

Maybe it was simplistic, but we parented with the "no means no" philosophy. It seems to me that many situations wouldn't escalate if boundaries were clearly set, consequences were clear, and one simple "no" from a parent was "no".

Terri

That has been my experience in working with parents too...inconsistency, empty threats, & too much negotiation usually escalated things. Many parents were doing these things & didn’t realize it. I have even done these things with my own DS & I have taught other ppl not to! It’s just part of parenting that we aren’t perfect & we make mistakes in the moment. But I think that’s what bugs me about the spanking issue. It seems many in the pro group are unwilling to acknowledge that maybe spanking was/is unnecessary or done after they’ve allowed the situation to escalate.

 

[Hikergirl]

I think I explained quite clearly that it is the only experience I had so I was interested in hearing from someone who challenged my previous observations. I think that’s how most controversial conversations usually go. Disagreeing can be part of it. I don’t see the point in continuing to waste your time following a thread if you have nothing meaningful to contribute other than the occasional jab.

I graduated from HS, have some college credits, grew up in a poor urban area, I was spanked, sometimes with a belt as a child. My dh has his PhD, he was not spanked as a child, he grew up poor in a rural area.
He and I have always agreed on discipline for our kids.

We both felt that spanking was the right method of discipline in certain situations. For us, spanking was a quick swat on the butt in order to get the attention of our child in a shocking way. We didn't use it as a way to inflict pain as punishment, if that makes sense.
Out of my 3 kids, we spanked 2 of them, and a handful of times between them. There weren't many situations that warranted it, but there were a few.
I do feel that using a belt, or a paddle or anything other than an open hand on a clothed behind crosses a line I wouldn't cross. I was whipped with a belt as a child, and it was done out of anger. It was not done to correct my behavior it was done specifically to hurt me because I made my parent mad. I do consider that abuse, and feel there is a big difference between that and what I described as spanking.

 

[LSUmiss]

I graduated from HS, have some college credits, grew up in a poor urban area, I was spanked, sometimes with a belt as a child. My dh has his PhD, he was not spanked as a child, he grew up poor in a rural area.
He and I have always agreed on discipline for our kids.

We both felt that spanking was the right method of discipline in certain situations. For us, spanking was a quick swat on the butt in order to get the attention of our child in a shocking way. We didn't use it as a way to inflict pain as punishment, if that makes sense.
Out of my 3 kids, we spanked 2 of them, and a handful of times between them. There weren't many situations that warranted it, but there were a few.
I do feel that using a belt, or a paddle or anything other than an open hand on a clothed behind crosses a line I wouldn't cross. I was whipped with a belt as a child, and it was done out of anger. It was not done to correct my behavior it was done specifically to hurt me because I made my parent mad. I do consider that abuse, and feel there is a big difference between that and what I described as spanking.

I kinda suspect more of us on this thread actually agree it’s just that the term spanking is vague & we don’t know everyone’s definition.

 

[Skywalker]

Right?

It's called assault when adults hit one another. But it's okay to hit your child, who you presumably love the most in this world. It will never make sense to me.

I never understand this line of thinking of "well you wouldn't do it to another adult so how could you do it to your child". The clear difference is that we are tasked with raising our children and sometimes that includes discipline. You could say the same about any other form of discipline - you would have no right to tell another adult what to do in general, or confiscate their belongings, to ground them in their room, to limit their TV time, to give them a time out, prevent them from attending social activities, etc etc etc...any form of discipline we use with our kids would be inappropriate to use on an adult and would be abusive if we did - it's not the same relationship at all so the comparison makes no sense.

 

[sam_gordon]

What can I say? When I was spanked, my mum dropped my pants and gave me a short slap on teh booty. Struck me as the norm. For the record, I don't know if it did me any good or not. Probably in retrospect TMI for this thread...

You can say what you saw. In the OP you said it "came close to a spanking" and then later you implied the child's pants were pulled down and the spanking happened. So which was it?

 

[sam_gordon]

It seems many in the pro group are unwilling to acknowledge that maybe spanking was/is unnecessary or done after they’ve allowed the situation to escalate.

Except many of us who did spank saw it accomplished the goal (presumably stopped the child from doing whatever bad thing they were doing) with no long lasting harm.

It seems many in the anti group are unwilling to acknowledge that maybe spanking can and does work, when used appropriately.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yeah the father did get convicted. I think it was manslaughter. I can see your point about the swat on a butt. But, I just can’t understand any more than that although I really think I have tried. Guess it’s just one of those things. For whipping you said you wouldn’t do it but wouldn’t criticize someone who does. Why wouldn’t you do it then?

Because I think, while not my choice, it can function the same as a spanking or paddling.

 

[leebee]

I never understand this line of thinking of "well you wouldn't do it to another adult so how could you do it to your child". The clear difference is that we are tasked with raising our children and sometimes that includes discipline. You could say the same about any other form of discipline - you would have no right to tell another adult what to do in general, or confiscate their belongings, to ground them in their room, to limit their TV time, to give them a time out, prevent them from attending social activities, etc etc etc...any form of discipline we use with our kids would be inappropriate to use on an adult and would be abusive if we did - it's not the same relationship at all so the comparison makes no sense.

Fair point- and I'm one who believes in "you wouldn't do it to an adult, why to a child." However, as we are tasked to teach children, there are things we don't do to adults because we respect their right to self-autonomy, something that a child hasn't the experience to manage; it's our job as parents to teach them these things, and part of this is teaching that actions have consequences. I just don't believe that inflicting pain is the way to do this. I don't care if it's effective or not... it's simply not a technique that I understand using or chose to employ.

I do not agree with spanking a child in any way, and never spanked my daughter. As someone else commented about their lives, we, too, were known as the strict parents. There was clearly a line in the sand at our house, not to be crossed, and if it WAS crossed there would be consequences- which didn't include physical punishment/pain. I admit that we were fortunate in having a daughter who wasn't interested in pushing the limits, so I don't know what I'd have done if she wasn't responsive to our discipline choices or if she was a kid who'd choose to be rebellious (or whatever you want to call it). However, I know we would not have resorted to hitting/spanking. I know who we are, and the only time that either of us has ever hit another person was when we were mugged in New Orleans (I feel that that was warranted). I know, I know... but how can I "know"? I just do... just like you know that hitting your child is the way to manage them, I know that it wouldn't ever have happened in our home. In my experience, the only time I've seen a child spanked/hit was in the heat of battle, in anger. I understand that parents "lose it" sometimes; we get frustrated, angry, and sometimes react in ways we might not necessarily choose otherwise. What I really don't understand is when parents spank AFTER the fact, when they are calm and level-headed. I see that as saying, "I'm not angry with you or out of control, but I am going to teach you a lesson by physically hurting you." That's just not part of my logic, rationale, or repertoire. I don't think I am judging you if this is what you do... just saying I don't understand how you can do that or justify it.