New law, parents/kids sitting together

[gwynne]

I'm in that "us", my kids are tweens now but have flown plenty when they were younger. I do not agree at all that families with young children should be penalized simply for having young children - it's not like they can choose out of their kids' ages. If a child is not able to be an unaccompanied minor on a flight according to the airline's own policies, the airline should not force their parents to pay additional charges so that they are seated with a guardian.

I'm in that us too. I travel with someone who needs my assistance. Booking what works for us is not an upcharge.
My opinion-those base bottom fares for for college students, people travelling alone or groups of able adults who have zero preference where and who they sit by. They are no perks, no frills fares. Period.

 

[daisy2013]

I'm in that us too. I travel with someone who needs my assistance. Booking what works for us is not an upcharge.
My opinion-those base bottom fares for for college students, people travelling alone or groups of able adults who have zero preference where and who they sit by. They are no perks, no frills fares. Period.

Exactly. And to book those fares you have to click that you agree to the rules of the fare including no seat selection. Some even say your party is likely to split up. So it is rude imo to buy that fare and then expect people, who may have paid for their seat selection, to move so your child can sit near you. As a parent you made a choice- you valued the savings over the seat selection. That’s on you, not the person next to you.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm in that "us", my kids are tweens now but have flown plenty when they were younger. I do not agree at all that families with young children should be penalized simply for having young children - it's not like they can choose out of their kids' ages. If a child is not able to be an unaccompanied minor on a flight according to the airline's own policies, the airline should not force their parents to pay additional charges so that they are seated with a guardian.

They shouldn’t get special treatment and be able to pick seats for free just because they have kids, they should pay the price or fly another airline. And I have 5 kids who’ve I’ve flown with many times.

 

[MomOTwins]

If after I book they move us, then it’s on them to find us seats together.

Except that technically it is not. In your contract, even if you pay for seat selection (and even if you pay even more for one of the "upgrades" to seats with extra legroom, closer to the front, etc), they have no obligation to honor your seat selection. Some airlines are nicer than others on this. Like I said, when it happened to me on United, the airline outright refused to do anything to help me get back seats together and said I would have to try my luck by asking other guests. It happened to me again on American Airlines on another trip, but there the gate attendant was much more helpful and did something to fix it. In both cases, I was not paying a "cheaper" fare--airlines just screw up a lot.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I'm in that "us", my kids are tweens now but have flown plenty when they were younger. I do not agree at all that families with young children should be penalized simply for having young children - it's not like they can choose out of their kids' ages. If a child is not able to be an unaccompanied minor on a flight according to the airline's own policies, the airline should not force their parents to pay additional charges so that they are seated with a guardian.

I think you are missing the point.

They aren't paying premium prices or being penalized.

It is the people that don't care where they sit that get a discount.

 

[siren0119]

I think you are missing the point.

They aren't paying premium prices or being penalized.

It is the people that don't care where they sit that get a discount.

Respectfully, I didn't miss anything. Base fares should be just that. Standard fares, anything else is extra. A base fare for a family flying with young children should not exclude ensuring that child isn't sitting with a stranger. Mind you, I understand that the whole selling point of airlines like Spirit, Frontier et. al. is that they are "stripped" - below what a "base" fare on a major airline would be. These are not the airlines I have in mind.

And again, these are my opinions, having traveled frequently as a child and traveling fairly regularly with my own kids. You don't have to agree

 

[gwynne]

Respectfully, I didn't miss anything. Base fares should be just that. Standard fares, anything else is extra. A base fare for a family flying with young children should not exclude ensuring that child isn't sitting with a stranger. Mind you, I understand that the whole selling point of airlines like Spirit, Frontier et. al. is that they are "stripped" - below what a "base" fare on a major airline would be. These are not the airlines I have in mind.

And again, these are my opinions, having traveled frequently as a child and traveling fairly regularly with my own kids. You don't have to agree

Times change. Terms of service change. In 2018 many legacy airlines discount fares based on the passenger getting zero perks. Those are the new "base" fares.
If you have any preference or need, no frills is not for you. That's ok. There are other fare options.

 

[siren0119]

Times change. Terms of service change. In 2018 many legacy airlines discount fares based on the passenger getting zero perks. Those are the new "base" fares.
If you have any preference or need, no frills is not for you. That's ok. There are other fare options.
And FWIW, I lived 12 years overseas. I am very familiar with flying, how it used to be and how it is currently.

Also very aware of changes, as I mentioned I travel (currently) frequently with my own kids.

 

[piccolopat]

Respectfully, I didn't miss anything. Base fares should be just that. Standard fares, anything else is extra. A base fare for a family flying with young children should not exclude ensuring that child isn't sitting with a stranger. Mind you, I understand that the whole selling point of airlines like Spirit, Frontier et. al. is that they are "stripped" - below what a "base" fare on a major airline would be. These are not the airlines I have in mind.

And again, these are my opinions, having traveled frequently as a child and traveling fairly regularly with my own kids. You don't have to agree

Perhaps the cheap base fares where you can't get assigned seats should be limited to adults or kids over a certain age. Perhaps these should be renamed "get what's left" fares with glaring, flashing red warnings about not being seated together so people better understand what they are getting. Honestly, if the parent buying the tickets for their family isn't reading the warnings about their group likely being split up on the plane, they should not complain about not being accommodated when they board.

 

[siren0119]

Perhaps the cheap base fares where you can't get assigned seats should be limited to adults or kids over a certain age. Perhaps these should be renamed "get what's left" fares with glaring, flashing red warnings about not being seated together so people better understand what they are getting. Honestly, if the parent buying the tickets for their family isn't reading the warnings about their group likely being split up on the plane, they should not complain about not being accommodated when they board.

I don't disagree with that at all - I'm a big fan of knowing what you're getting. What I dislike as a practice (and again, this is just my opinion based on personal experiences and having frustrating experiences shared by friends and family) is that families with young children are expected to pay the "add on" charge to ensure littles aren't sat with strangers, I feel like it approaches a low level of extortion to "force" families to pony up extra or just not fly. The airlines are already collecting three, four, five or more seat fares from a family, and sometimes the "nominal" extra fee times three/four/five can add up to almost the cost of an additional ticket. In addition, if airlines are going to allow kids to be seated away from parents, they need better safeguards to keep small kids from being alone. Airlines have age limits for unaccompanied minors, and it seems odd that an airline would allow a 2 year old to be seated away from their parent but yet wouldn't allow that child on the plane at all if unaccompanied - at 2 years old having the parent physically on the plane but not with the child isn't enough supervision.

 

[gwynne]

I don't disagree with that at all - I'm a big fan of knowing what you're getting. What I dislike as a practice (and again, this is just my opinion based on personal experiences and having frustrating experiences shared by friends and family) is that families with young children are expected to pay the "add on" charge to ensure littles aren't sat with strangers, I feel like it approaches a low level of extortion to "force" families to pony up extra or just not fly. The airlines are already collecting three, four, five or more seat fares from a family, and sometimes the "nominal" extra fee times three/four/five can add up to almost the cost of an additional ticket. In addition, if airlines are going to allow kids to be seated away from parents, they need better safeguards to keep small kids from being alone. Airlines have age limits for unaccompanied minors, and it seems odd that an airline would allow a 2 year old to be seated away from their parent but yet wouldn't allow that child on the plane at all if unaccompanied - at 2 years old having the parent physically on the plane but not with the child isn't enough supervision.

It's not "extortion". Some airlines are offering a discount to folks with zero needs and preferences. These are passengers who agree to sit anywhere in exchange for some savings. (And in some cases they also have baggage/carry on restrictions.)
Airlines make the restrictions with these fares very clear. You have to click through the warnings.

If these fares are too restrictive, then select fares that allow more options. It's a straightforward consumer decision.

 

[porschegrl]

families with young children are expected to pay the "add on" charge to ensure littles aren't sat with strangers

I look at it another way. If I want my traveling party to sit together, I fly an airline that allows me to choose seat assignments in advance and select a fare class that allows me to do so. Doesn't matter if my traveling companions are children or adults. This is not an "add on" charge for families.

 

[MomOTwins]

I look at it another way. If I want my traveling party to sit together, I fly an airline that allows me to choose seat assignments in advance and select a fare class that allows me to do so. Doesn't matter if my traveling companions are children or adults. This is not an "add on" charge for families.

The thing that is weird to me is that it doesn’t cost the airline anything more to let people choose their seats. So it that sense, it is a surcharge.

 

[daisy2013]

Except that technically it is not. In your contract, even if you pay for seat selection (and even if you pay even more for one of the "upgrades" to seats with extra legroom, closer to the front, etc), they have no obligation to honor your seat selection. Some airlines are nicer than others on this. Like I said, when it happened to me on United, the airline outright refused to do anything to help me get back seats together and said I would have to try my luck by asking other guests. It happened to me again on American Airlines on another trip, but there the gate attendant was much more helpful and did something to fix it. In both cases, I was not paying a "cheaper" fare--airlines just screw up a lot.

The times they have moved our seats and separated the children from a parent I have always been able to resolve it prior to getting on the plane. I check my reservation a few days in advance to make sure things are good and if not call. If it changes when I check in I talk to the gate agent. Every time they have been able to resolve my issue and have the children sitting with at least one parent. I tend to be calm and rational and not blame the person helping. Having flown dozens of times with my kids, I have never been moved from them and not been moved to seats adjacent to them when asked.

 

[daisy2013]

The thing that is weird to me is that it doesn’t cost the airline anything more to let people choose their seats. So it that sense, it is a surcharge.

Not really because the base fares are used to fill in seats that may otherwise go empty. Who wants to pay the same for a middle seat as an aisle seat? They may choose a different flight or airline, but give them a discount for that middle seat, they are more likely to take it.

 

[MomOTwins]

The times they have moved our seats and separated the children from a parent I have always been able to resolve it prior to getting on the plane. I check my reservation a few days in advance to make sure things are good and if not call. If it changes when I check in I talk to the gate agent. Every time they have been able to resolve my issue and have the children sitting with at least one parent. I tend to be calm and rational and not blame the person helping. Having flown dozens of times with my kids, I have never been moved from them and not been moved to seats adjacent to them when asked.

Well lucky you then. I’ve heard plenty of people who had the opposite experience. I think it’s fair to say that experiences with airline customer service can vary.

 

[siren0119]

It's not "extortion". Some airlines are offering a discount to folks with zero needs and preferences. These are passengers who agree to sit anywhere in exchange for some savings. (And in some cases they also have baggage/carry on restrictions.)
Airlines make the restrictions with these fares very clear. You have to click through the warnings.

If these fares are too restrictive, then select fares that allow more options. It's a straightforward consumer decision.

And I *might* feel differently if that was how they were marketed. But outside of the known bare-bones airlines, they are marketed as "base fare"...so not at a discount from a "regular fare" but the implication is that it IS the regular fare, and if you want your child sitting with someone they know you pay EXTRA for it. There is where I start to take issue. My kids are older and fine sitting alone now, but when they were younger I tried to stick with Southwest airlines because I knew we could likely put one kid with each parent and not have to worry about one of them getting left in the lurch. But not every airport is serviced by SW, and so it very often isn't a matter of making a "better" choice depending on where you live.

The fact that supervising a child safely is acceptable as a "consumer" decision and not a standard is also part of the issue I take with the policy.

The thing that is weird to me is that it doesn’t cost the airline anything more to let people choose their seats. So it that sense, it is a surcharge.

It's a convenience fee and a way to squeeze more out of flyers. Nothing more.

 

[daisy2013]

Well lucky you then. I’ve heard plenty of people who had the opposite experience. I think it’s fair to say that experiences with airline customer service can vary.

I can only comment on my experience, although I do find that people who are not happy tend to be the ones that complain the most and the loudest, in person or online. You don't hear about the stories like mine where things work out fine. But I have found that being loud, or passive aggressive (handing a diaper bag to the person who happens to be seated next to your kid for example) will not result in getting your way. If you identify the problem early and are proactive, you are much more likely to have the problem resolved.

 

[daisy2013]

And I *might* feel differently if that was how they were marketed. But outside of the known bare-bones airlines, they are marketed as "base fare"...so not at a discount from a "regular fare" but the implication is that it IS the regular fare, and if you want your child sitting with someone they know you pay EXTRA for it. There is where I start to take issue. My kids are older and fine sitting alone now, but when they were younger I tried to stick with Southwest airlines because I knew we could likely put one kid with each parent and not have to worry about one of them getting left in the lurch. But not every airport is serviced by SW, and so it very often isn't a matter of making a "better" choice depending on where you live.

The fact that supervising a child safely is acceptable as a "consumer" decision and not a standard is also part of the issue I take with the policy.



It's a convenience fee and a way to squeeze more out of flyers. Nothing more.

If you look at the way different airlines promote it
Delta - Basic, Main, Comfort. - If you select Basic you get a checklist that says among other things - select seats, including seats together - with an X next to Basic and a check next to Main. With an additional note that your seats are assigned at check-in or the gate. You have to accept these restrictions to book the fare.
United - Basic Economy (most restricted), Economy, Economy (flexible) - If you select Basic Economy, you have a pop up window that states the restrictions including sit with you family or group - with a red X next to it. You have to click twice to book this fare.
American - Basic, Main - pop up with chart with red X next to seats assigned at check in. Again have to actively accept the restrictions.

People have to actively choose the most restrictive fare. If it doesn't work for their needs, don't choose it. Its really that simple. Its about personal responsibility. It doesn't matter if they have small children, a disabled travel companion or even just they personally can't or don't want to sit in whatever seat is available. Parents are treated the same as other travelers.

 

[daisy2013]

Respectfully, I didn't miss anything. Base fares should be just that. Standard fares, anything else is extra. A base fare for a family flying with young children should not exclude ensuring that child isn't sitting with a stranger. Mind you, I understand that the whole selling point of airlines like Spirit, Frontier et. al. is that they are "stripped" - below what a "base" fare on a major airline would be. These are not the airlines I have in mind.

And again, these are my opinions, having traveled frequently as a child and traveling fairly regularly with my own kids. You don't have to agree

They are not Base fares, but Basic ie no-frills.
and even if they are Base fares - that implies the bottom, least frills fare with additional features (like seat selection) on top of that fare.