OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[DeniseJH]

Exactly and the point people are making is the overall meaning is different today than it was then.

The overall meaning is that racism is acceptable. It isn't now and it wasn't then.

 

[DopeyDame]

I don't particularly care at all what version is used. But I was speaking towards a bigger picture. Sometimes we just try to erase all traces of something for fear of glorifying it even if glorifying it wasn't actually done.

I can't think of an instance where people tried to erase all traces of something. I can think of plenty of instances where people realize there are other/better ways to remember something and other/better people to honor.

 

[skyblue17]

I personally don't care what song anyone chooses to play.
I'm just shaking my head at the need for some to be offended. If you are searching 50 years in the past for it, then you've got issues.

I's love to know just how many people, and fans actually knew about this woman's horrible racist past (that's sarcasm BTW) yesterday? Or did they just get to their seats, barely pay attention to the song and enjoy the game they were watching?
Yeah, "sensitive" is putting it nicely

I would venture to say most people DIDN'T know but this is an easy thing to just move on along from, since a. she's dead, b. most people won't notice or care and c. the only people who are actually annoyed that it is happening are the kind of people who worry about what other people are offended about and try to invalidate those things.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I'm so tired of the PC crowd and the thought police. It's gotten way out of hand.

 

[luvsJack]

I would venture to say most people DIDN'T know but this is an easy thing to just move on along from, since a. she's dead, b. most people won't notice or care and c. the only people who are actually annoyed that it is happening are the kind of people who worry about what other people are offended about and try to invalidate those things.

So you agree that most people probably didn't know about "her past". So if that is the case, why would they be offended by hearing her sing to the point that the song had to be removed?

 

[disneyjunkie]

So the Yankees and the Flyers will stop playing a recording of the National Anthem because the singer sang songs with racist lyrics 80 YEARS ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/sports/kate-smith-new-york-yankees-philadelphia-flyers.html

Can we not admit things were different that long ago and not hold people responsible for something they did back then?

Can we admit that not all people were racist long ago? We should continue to hold people accountable for their racists acts.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Poor example. Not that anyone would hire Weinstein to sing now, but much different era and it would have occurred in relativley the same time period as the accusations (if not the actual offenses.)

I don’t think I’m understanding what you’re saying here. Are you suggesting modern societies shouldn’t be turned off by people’s past actions simply because those actions were acceptable at the time they were alive?

All of whose accusations/trials/sentencing came during their lifetimes.

Also, is it really necessary to point out that Smith's songs, while [much?] more offensive now than 80 years ago, is not illegal? Wasn't then, isn't now.

I was thinking about the morality of those examples, not the legality. And the point was that famous people fall from grace all the time once society learns more about the individual or changes its views on certain subjects.

Not. The. Nation. Anthem.

I couldn’t remember which was the song in question so I listed them both. My bad.

Sure they have the right. That doesn't mean that what the OP says isn't true. We have grown to sensitive. Of course most people today are revolted by Bill Cosby because he is being judged by people in the era he did what he did and by the standards of the time he did it in. It isn't that hard to see the difference.

But one should also point out that a baseball team taking this stance is being extremely hypocritical considering their own history.

So baseball, once a segregated sport, should always remain a segregated sport? Of course not, it needs to evolve and change alongside society. This is exactly my point. The Yankees have decided this singer’s body of work no longer fits with the image they want for their organization in the context of today’s social mores and values. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[skyblue17]

So you agree that most people probably didn't know about "her past". So if that is the case, why would they be offended by hearing her sing to the point that the song had to be removed?

WHO is? Have you found anyone who is actually offended, or are people just offended that the Yankees and Flyers decided to part ways with her? Reading this thread, it seems like people are more offended by the concept of other people potentially being offended than anything else, and yet it's people who are ok with moving on from these types of things that have "issues."

 

[Hikergirl]

I would venture to say most people DIDN'T know but this is an easy thing to just move on along from, since a. she's dead, b. most people won't notice or care and c. the only people who are actually annoyed that it is happening are the kind of people who worry about what other people are offended about and try to invalidate those things.

I admit that it is annoying, it is annoying to see an organization cower to people that can't handle the fact that there are entire generations out there who lived a different way than we do now, and *gasp* during their time it was acceptable.
I'd rather see that organization grow a pair and tell those people to go find a safe space and some coloring books.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I can't think of an instance where people tried to erase all traces of something. I can think of plenty of instances where people realize there are other/better ways to remember something and other/better people to honor.

I'm speaking towards covering up the statue and then removing it in the case of the OP. We do that too in other things. People destroying things. Things may have better places to be at totally agree there but it doesn't mean we erase that they exist. I'm sorry you can't think of instances where people tried to erase traces of stuff but I can. Your second statement is part of what I'm talking about. Things exist in our past. We can strive to educate ourselves and view things in contexual ways while also bringing to the forefront how we view things today (for at least some things) or we can opt to put it under the rug or removed entirely.

 

[DeniseJH]

I admit that it is annoying, it is annoying to see an organization cower to people that can't handle the fact that there are entire generations out there who lived a different way than we do now, and *gasp* during their time it was acceptable.
I'd rather see that organization grow a pair and tell those people to go find a safe space and some coloring books.

Racism has never been acceptable. There have always been people who knew and did better.

 

[Scifidiner]

I admit that it is annoying, it is annoying to see an organization cower to people that can't handle the fact that there are entire generations out there who lived a different way than we do now, and *gasp* during their time it was acceptable.
I'd rather see that organization grow a pair and tell those people to go find a safe space and some coloring books.

This X 10.

 

[skyblue17]

I admit that it is annoying, it is annoying to see an organization cower to people that can't handle the fact that there are entire generations out there who lived a different way than we do now, and *gasp* during their time it was acceptable.
I'd rather see that organization grow a pair and tell those people to go find a safe space and some coloring books.

Cool. I think it's annoying to see people so wrapped up in the past that they can't handle a change in direction, and have to lash out at people who want to move forward. And I think it's even MORE annoying when people dismiss things by using terms like "safe space."

 

[gina2000]

The song was a hit in 1931. Paul Robeson, an African-American singer also sang it.

Jim Crow laws existed from the late 19th century and were finally outlawed in 1965.

Brown v. The Topeka Board of Education was decided in 1954.

I'd say there was plenty of prejudice in the USA in the early to mid 20th century.

You can try to sanitize the past any way you want to but it doesn't alter the facts. I personally don't care about Kate Smith's rendition of "God Bless America" but to dismiss her legacy because of a song she sang at a time when racial prejudice was alive and well, is ridiculous.

 

[disneyjunkie]

yes but you dont seem to grasp is that you are judging things by 2019 standards, and not understanding that the world and termonolgy was very different in the 1930's

Stop making excuses!

Those words were always hurtful and vile. Just talk to any black person that grew up hearing that garbage on a daily basis.

These conversations are always discussed from the point of view of the users (white folks) and not from that of the targets( black folk).

 

[Hikergirl]

Cool. I think it's annoying to see people so wrapped up in the past that they can't handle a change in direction, and have to lash out at people who want to move forward. And I think it's even MORE annoying when people dismiss things by using terms like "safe space."

Oh the irony in that statement

 

[skyblue17]

Oh the irony in that statement

Seriously, if you're aren't going to make comments in good faith, what is the point of having a conversation about this? I think I've been clear about how most people probably did not know about her past, but learning of it, decided to move forward. But when you can laugh at someone, why not, right?

 

[Scifidiner]

Honestly I think some people get "offended" then make a stink about just to see if an organization/business is dumb enough to jump through their PC hoop.

 

[DeniseJH]

You can try to sanitize the past any way you want to but it doesn't alter the facts. I personally don't care about Kate Smith's rendition of "God Bless America" but to dismiss her legacy because of a song she sang at a time when racial prejudice was alive and well, is ridiculous.

Racial prejudice is has always been alive and well - that doesn't mean it was, or ever will be acceptable.

 

[mrsstats]

And now American Idol is racist because 2 black singers were voted off by the public. Not by the judges.