Favreau Enters Negotiations for Lucasfilm President

[YesterDark]

So I’m not a Star Wars fan because I don’t mind Kathy?

Uh what? I just said that if you are a SW fan you already know both sides of the like/dislike prequel argument that has been raging since TLJ.

 

[BrianL]

Who hired the writers and directors? Kennedy. Solo didnt make money. IP name doesnt always equate to box office receipts. Look a Justice League. I think when Solo released was more of a problem than the mess with the directors. Star Wars in May just doesnt work anymore. They’re Holiday Season movies. If Solo released in December, it would have been a juggernaut. Aquaman released that December and is the highest crossing DCEU movie to date.

Solo is indeed the victim of poor timing. Actually, if the budget hadn't spiraled due to reshoots it probably would still be okay from an ROI standpoint (not great, but not a flop). That's one out of 5 movies that did poorly though which is still a good track record.

 

[YesterDark]

Man, I've heard it - it just doesn't make any sense.

I mean that's ok. I thought TLJ and Rise were mediocre movies. I'm not dying on a sword on this argument. I don't understand how people can watch the three movies and find them competently planned and written. Not to mentioned all the rumored reshoots and rewrites for Rise.

They were executed well (as in they took what was written and was put on film), well acted, CGI was amazing and delivered feels in a lot of places. I just don't think the overall scope was very good.

 

[BrianL]

I mean that's ok. I thought TLJ and Rise were mediocre movies. I'm not dying on a sword on this argument. I don't understand how people can watch the three movies and find them competently planned and written. Not to mentioned all the rumored reshoots and rewrites for Rise.

They were executed well, well acted, CGI was amazing and delivered feels in a lot of places. I just don't think the overall scope was very good.

See, that's a fair assessment - but how does that equate to a "disaster" as you say? They were executed well, right? Personally, I find them very well written, and don't understand the issue about "planning" - it's not like Lucas really planned out the OT. He swerved too. It's like some fans wanted PERFECTION and anything less would be considered a savage disappointment. Thy predetermined that outcome in that case.

 

[Mit88]

I mean that's ok. I thought TLJ and Rise were mediocre movies. I'm not dying on a sword on this argument. I don't understand how people can watch the three movies and find them competently planned and written. Not to mentioned all the rumored reshoots and rewrites for Rise.

They were executed well (as in they took what was written and was put on film), well acted, CGI was amazing and delivered feels in a lot of places. I just don't think the overall scope was very good.

Disney wanted to make their money back on the acquisition as fast as possible. The sequel trilogy could have waited and been planned out better had they waited until now to start planning out the new trilogy. But thats not Kennedy’s fault. She still had to serve under Iger and the shareholders.

 

[YesterDark]

See, that's a fair assessment - but how does that equate to a "disaster" as you say? They were executed well, right? Personally, I find them very well written, and don't understand the issue about "planning" - it's not like Lucas really planned out the OT. He swerved too. It's like some fans wanted PERFECTION and anything less would be considered a savage disappointment. Thy predetermined that outcome in that case.

It's a disaster because it should have been escalated to the magnitude of the MCU. The fact that Lucasfilm after the Disney acquisition has only produced 5 movies all doing worse than the last one. It's not like Disney doesn't know or have people that are experienced with growing the MCU. To the movie going audience at large, the brand has been damaged. Star Wars nerds like me will always go back because lightsabers. But it takes more than just SW nerds to make these things go.

That's the failure.

 

[YesterDark]

Disney wanted to make their money back on the acquisition as fast as possible. The sequel trilogy could have waited and been planned out better had they waited until now to start planning out the new trilogy. But thats not Kennedy’s fault. She still had to serve under Iger and the shareholders.

No that is totally Kennedy's fault. That was her primary job.

 

[Mit88]

Disney benefitted from the MCU already having a roadmap when they acquired Marvel Studios. They were able to recoup their spending quickly while also following an already laid out plan. They didnt have the same situation with Star Wars. There was nothing to work off of. It was Disney telling them, make these movies now so we can make our money back and then we’ll figure out other IP related projects later on. That is not Kennedy’s problem. She did what her bosses and superiors told her to do

 

[rteetz]

Uh what? I just said that if you are a SW fan you already know both sides of the like/dislike prequel argument that has been raging since TLJ.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[TommyJK]

Disney benefitted from the MCU already having a roadmap when they acquired Marvel Studios. They were able to recoup their spending quickly while also following an already laid out plan. They didnt have the same situation with Star Wars. There was nothing to work off of. It was Disney telling them, make these movies now so we can make our money back and then we’ll figure out other IP related projects later on. That is not Kennedy’s problem. She did what her bosses and superiors told her to do

Disney had a road map for Star Wars as well. Lucas had one and gave it to them. They just decided they didn't like it and threw it out and do their own thing which now in hindsight (to me) looks like an unorganized/seat of the pants story that looks like it changed many times along the way without an overarching start to finish plan.

 

[BrianL]

It's a disaster because it should have been escalated to the magnitude of the MCU. The fact that Lucasfilm after the Disney acquisition has only produced 5 movies all doing worse than the last one. It's not like Disney doesn't know or have people that are experienced with growing the MCU. To the movie going audience at large, the brand has been damaged. Star Wars nerds like me will always go back because lightsabers. But it takes more than just SW nerds to make these things go.

That's the failure.

Look, fact is Star Wars is competing against the MCU now - and like it or not, Star Wars is no longer the biggest dog on the block. It's still a pretty big and successful franchise. The OT also had it's returns drop with each installment, was that a disaster too? MCU movies go up and down depending - it's just part of the business. The only one that wasn't a success was Solo - the rest were all hits, or even mega-hits, that most studios would love to have on their books.

 

[skeeter31]

Anytime SW is mentioned on this board the EXACT same argument gets played out. We know the players at this point and who feels which way about the new trilogy and the other movies shows.

 

[TommyJK]

The only one that wasn't a success was Solo - the rest were all hits, or even mega-hits, that most studios would love to have on their books.

Missed opportunities and significant downward trend can't be what they were hoping for though.

The Force Awakens - $2.068B
The Last Jedi - $1.332B
The Rise of Skywalker - $1.074B

While yes they technically made a good deal of money that many studios would kill for, with a better plan/execution they could have likely made way more money. Star Wars should be an evergreen property that could potentially makes them huge money forever. The significant downward trend in Box Office from film to film has to be very concerning and definitely points to increasing viewer dissatisfaction from each subsequent film.

 

[BrianL]

Missed opportunities and significant downward trend can't be what they were hoping for though.

The Force Awakens - $2.068B
The Last Jedi - $1.332B
The Rise of Skywalker - $1.074B

While yes they technically made a good deal of money that many studios would kill for, with a better plan/execution they could have likely made way more money. Star Wars should be an evergreen property that could potentially makes them huge money forever. The significant downward trend in Box Office from film to film has to be very concerning and definitely points to increasing viewer dissatisfaction from each subsequent film.

The OT had a downward trend too:

ANH: $503M
ESB: $400M
ROTJ: $374M

It's just the nature of these things. Ep. II fell significantly form Ep. I because the excitement waned. Ep. III actually did better, but not more than Ep. I did.

Let me ask, suppose they had a"better plan" - this was ALL written out well ahead of time with a with a very tight narrative - but it was all written by Rian Johnson? Basically, three Last Jedi's - would that have been acceptible? It was all planned out, but Luke's story is the same. The line seems to be that it was bad because they didn't plan it - really it was just "bad" because they didn't like it - which is fine of course, but there's this idea that the quality is objectively bad and if they had done X or Y it would have to have been good. I just don't get that.

 

[WDW Pro]

The OT had a downward trend too:

ANH: $503M
ESB: $400M
ROTJ: $374M

It's just the nature of these things. Ep. II fell significantly form Ep. I because the excitement waned. Ep. III actually did better, but not more than Ep. I did.

Let me ask, suppose they had a"better plan" - this was ALL written out well ahead of time with a with a very tight narrative - but it was all written by Rian Johnson? Basically, three Last Jedi's - would that have been acceptible? It was all planned out, but Luke's story is the same. The line seems to be that it was bad because they didn't plan it - really it was just "bad" because they didn't like it - which is fine of course, but there's this idea that the quality is objectively bad and if they had done X or Y it would have to have been good. I just don't get that.

Marvel showed that trend doesn't need be true.

 

[BrianL]

Marvel showed that trend doesn't need be true.

So do the Prequels - oh, wait, everyone hates those too. Marvel is up and down depending on the film. If you include Rogue One & Solo, then Star Wars is also up and down. My point is that despite the trend, the numbers are still very healthy. It's like people need to "prove" that they were failures because they personally didn't like them. "How could they have been successful? I didn't like them at all!" It happens, folks.

 

[eliseisawkward]

There are certainly legitimate criticisms of the way the sequel trilogy was handled. I for one, wish they had met during development and come up with a cohesive story from the beginning instead of making it up as they went along. However, Star Wars as a franchise has done very well under the Disney umbrella with Kathy at the helm. I don’t see them firing her unless she becomes the center of some huge scandal. I do believe she will move on at the end of her contract, but as someone else mentioned there is quite some time before that happens.

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

So do the Prequels - oh, wait, everyone hates those too. Marvel is up and down depending on the film. If you include Rogue One & Solo, then Star Wars is also up and down. My point is that despite the trend, the numbers are still very healthy. It's like people need to "prove" that they were failures because they personally didn't like them. "How could they have been successful? I didn't like them at all!" It happens, folks.

I thought I hated the prequels until the I saw the new trilogy. Now I appreciate the story even though the acting is atrocious.

 

[TommyJK]

The OT had a downward trend too:

ANH: $503M
ESB: $400M
ROTJ: $374M

It's just the nature of these things. Ep. II fell significantly form Ep. I because the excitement waned. Ep. III actually did better, but not more than Ep. I did.

Let me ask, suppose they had a"better plan" - this was ALL written out well ahead of time with a with a very tight narrative - but it was all written by Rian Johnson? Basically, three Last Jedi's - would that have been acceptible? It was all planned out, but Luke's story is the same. The line seems to be that it was bad because they didn't plan it - really it was just "bad" because they didn't like it - which is fine of course, but there's this idea that the quality is objectively bad and if they had done X or Y it would have to have been good. I just don't get that.

For the original trilogy, ESB did 80% of what ANH did, and ROTJ did 74% of ANH

By comparison TLJ did 64% of TFA and TRoS did 52% of TFA. That is much more of a drop than just the "nature of things" when it comes to sequels.

Also very often when it comes to popular movie series they will have big $ for the first film, lesser for the middle film(s) and a big boost for the finales as people get excited to see how things wrap up. The prequels did $924m, $645m, and $868 respectively. Similar results for Indiana Jones, Harry Potter etc. Or for LOTR each movie increased $ as it went along. A finale of a trilogy, and in this case a saga that spans many generations, albeit being profitable, to do as poorly as it did in context to what this series is has to be heavily concerning.

As for your second part, I simply would have preferred that they had a coherent start to finish story and not "make it up as you go along" from movie to movie constantly changing course/direction. It might have been bad if their start to finish story was crap, or it might have been good. We won't know but I suspect it would have been received much better since it would have flowed more coherently from film to film.

 

[YesterDark]

There are certainly legitimate criticisms of the way the sequel trilogy was handled. I for one, wish they had met during development and come up with a cohesive story from the beginning instead of making it up as they went along. However, Star Wars as a franchise has done very well under the Disney umbrella with Kathy at the helm. I don’t see them firing her unless she becomes the center of some huge scandal. I do believe she will move on at the end of her contract, but as someone else mentioned there is quite some time before that happens.

They would probably never fire her. They would just move responsibilities around most likely (probably already did).