2019 Dues

[_auroraborealis_]

Dues cannot pay for restricted events.

 

[hakepb]

I have no personal knowledge but since Oct they have had walls up at the Epcot IG boat dock cutting into what was previously the que for the boat. I was wondering if they are going to reconfigure the line and the exit to accommodate the new security area there and funnel the walkers over to that area to go through security. Otherwise the only option would be to move security onto the Boardwalk since there’s no way there would be room on the dock where the lines to board are.

Considering both IG and DHS, it would make a lot of sense if the gondola and boats were both in the security bubble.
At IG, they would still need a check for walk in’s (before the gondola/boat)
And at DHS, walkers could join the bus stop / tram/ parking security check while the gondola and boats would already be “secure”.

 

[WB1971]

There can’t be many years with increases like this before it changes the economics of the product. Budget increases are an addiction, hard to kick once you start, I hope this isn’t a trend. I foolishly thought Disney could use some of the massive theme park profits and corporate income tax savings to fund general wage increases. I get that employees who only work for DVC would logically have to be supported by dues, but the scope of these dues increases just seems unjustifiable. Theme park profits being siphoned off by a failing ESPN are a drag on the entire operation that is really affecting guest experience. Irritating.

 

[crisi]

There can’t be many years with increases like this before it changes the economics of the product. Budget increases are an addiction, hard to kick once you start, I hope this isn’t a trend. I foolishly thought Disney could use some of the massive theme park profits and corporate income tax savings to fund general wage increases. I get that employees who only work for DVC would logically have to be supported by dues, but the scope of these dues increases just seems unjustifiable. Theme park profits being siphoned off by a failing ESPN are a drag on the entire operation that is really affecting guest experience. Irritating.

Why would Disney pay for costs that we are legally obligated to cover? We own a timeshare - part of the deal is that we pay the operating expenses of the timeshare. Disney isn't going to use profits or tax savings to cover what is legally our costs.

And if they did, they might be breaking the law. They have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders.

 

[Jerry5788]

There can’t be many years with increases like this before it changes the economics of the product. Budget increases are an addiction, hard to kick once you start, I hope this isn’t a trend. I foolishly thought Disney could use some of the massive theme park profits and corporate income tax savings to fund general wage increases. I get that employees who only work for DVC would logically have to be supported by dues, but the scope of these dues increases just seems unjustifiable. Theme park profits being siphoned off by a failing ESPN are a drag on the entire operation that is really affecting guest experience. Irritating.

Why would Disney pay for costs that we are legally obligated to cover? We own a timeshare - part of the deal is that we pay the operating expenses of the timeshare. Disney isn't going to use profits or tax savings to cover what is legally our costs.

And if they did, they might be breaking the law. They have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders.

Also same logic they can't just stuff us with costs above what is applicable to be covered by us.

 

[tjkraz]

A question about the budget - what is included in member activities? And am I, as a resale member, subsidizing costs for events for direct members?

(Not at all begrudging direct members of their perks, I knew what I signed up for and chose acoordingly, just trying to understand the budget)

"Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings."

Community hall operations, pool games, outdoor movie nights, campfires, Disney Files Magazine, the annual condo meeting and any other perks / events which are open to ALL resort guests and owners. It does NOT include restricted events like Moonlight Magic or paid meals/dessert parties.

 

[lovin'fl]

Why would Disney pay for costs that we are legally obligated to cover? We own a timeshare - part of the deal is that we pay the operating expenses of the timeshare. Disney isn't going to use profits or tax savings to cover what is legally our costs.

And if they did, they might be breaking the law. They have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders.

But we pay wages for folks who work for non-DVC as well...some resorts have deluxe hotels attached. Plus they do keep some inventory for cash guests and I noticed that conference folks were staying in my BWV last year (during F&W 2017). So does Disney kick in for any salaries for desk staff, housekeeping, maintenance/groundskeep, pool staff, shop staff, bell services and the such? What salaries do we, DVC, cover and what does the mouse cover?

 

[tjkraz]

But we pay wages for folks who work for non-DVC as well...some resorts have deluxe hotels attached. Plus they do keep some inventory for cash guests and I noticed that conference folks were staying in my BWV last year (during F&W 2017). So does Disney kick in for any salaries for desk staff, housekeeping, maintenance/groundskeep, pool staff, shop staff, bell services and the such? What salaries do we, DVC, cover and what does the mouse cover?

There are no "DVC Employees" or "Hotel Employees." Costs are allocated based upon established formulas. I've been told the basis is registered guests. If the BoardWalk hosts 2 million DVC guests and 1 million hotel guests in a single year, generally speaking the DVC budgets will be charged for 66% of all resort operating costs: from front desk attendants to lifeguards to security guards.

Disney sells/rents villas to cash guests in a number of different ways. If Disney reclaims the room due to a member using an exchange program (Disney Cruise, Adventures by Disney), the original owner of the points is still paying dues on them. Disney is renting that room to a cash guest to recoup the cost of the exchange. If a room is made available to a cash guest because it was unbooked by a member, a portion of the revenue is credited back to dues under the heading of "breakage." If the room is a result of points that are owned by Disney/DVC, then Disney is essentially paying the dues.

 

[crisi]

DVC will cover a proportional cost for desk staff, housekeeping, maintenance/groundskeeping, pool staff, security, bell services. Shop staff and restaurant staff are a different division and paid out of the P&L of those divisions. And its proportional, we don't pay for the proportion of labor costs allocated to the hotel, nor does the hotel pay for the proportional labor costs allocated to us. There is a little wiggle room in how those proportions are established (i.e. they are using registered guests according to Tim which seems pretty fair, but they could do it by square foot or some other reasonable method). Most importantly - as owners of a timeshare, those are our costs - not Disney's.

 

[lovin'fl]

Disney sells/rents villas to cash guests in a number of different ways. If Disney reclaims the room due to a member using an exchange program (Disney Cruise, Adventures by Disney), the original owner of the points is still paying dues on them. Disney is renting that room to a cash guest to recoup the cost of the exchange. If a room is made available to a cash guest because it was unbooked by a member, a portion of the revenue is credited back to dues under the heading of "breakage." If the room is a result of points that are owned by Disney/DVC, then Disney is essentially paying the dues.

I know this. But is there proof that it really happens this way? Precisely this way (down to the last point)? Do members have access to this proof? What about points that members let expire (uneducated in DVC members who don't go on forums)? I am sure the mouse has an estimate of the yearly average. Do they then convert that to CRO? There are ways to shimmy and fudge the numbers on all accounts (how many CRO versus how many DVC as well as how much they can convert to CRO). This dues increase is high and doesn't add up. There are many DVC folks who wonder if we are footing the bill for the deluxe resorts attached to our DVC. And I don't think, correct me if I am wrong, that where our dues goes is 100% transparent. Which lends itself to being able to shimmy and fudge.

 

[lovin'fl]

I will say though, It's still worth it to own some DVC. Though we had plans to own enough to winter there in retirement (at least a good chunk of winter) and were working up to owning like 1500 points. We have 650. But now it makes more sense to just rent a seasonal condo when we winter there. Really, it always has made sense but the more dues increases the more paying a rent is the most economical choice (or even buying a condo). Now we just need enough points for a decent vacation or 2 a year. We have way more then we need. Also, 125 of our points are at HHI. I had 3 nights in a 1BR booked in May. Just the annual dues for the points used (98) would be $839 (or $280 per night). I can rent for less and be closer to (or on) the ocean. So, time to sell those. Just doesn't make sense. And for a while now you can book there CRO with discount (AP or DVC....not sure????) cheaper than what your annual dues are...at least sometimes during the year.

 

[crisi]

I know this. But is there proof that it really happens this way? Precisely this way (down to the last point)? Do members have access to this proof? What about points that members let expire (uneducated in DVC members who don't go on forums)? I am sure the mouse has an estimate of the yearly average. Do they then convert that to CRO? There are ways to shimmy and fudge the numbers on all accounts (how many CRO versus how many DVC as well as how much they can convert to CRO). This dues increase is high and doesn't add up. There are many DVC folks who wonder if we are footing the bill for the deluxe resorts attached to our DVC. And I don't think, correct me if I am wrong, that where our dues goes is 100% transparent. Which lends itself to being able to shimmy and fudge.

You are permitted to make an appointment and go in and look.

But here is the thing, if you think Disney is defrauding you - because what you are saying they might be doing is fraud - illegal and unethical and just really really slimy - then you really should not be doing business with Disney.

They have some wiggle room - you either buy into that idea or you don't. But anything outside that wiggle room is fraud.

 

[lovin'fl]

You are permitted to make an appointment and go in and look.

But here is the thing, if you think Disney is defrauding you - because what you are saying they might be doing is fraud - illegal and unethical and just really really slimy - then you really should not be doing business with Disney.

They have some wiggle room - you either buy into that idea or you don't. But anything outside that wiggle room is fraud.

A little wiggle room equals a lot of $$$.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Every DVC unit is represented in points. The units that Disney rents for cash are not exceptions. They pay dues on those points they own, and the points they acquire in trade had dues paid by the owners of the points who made the trades.

 

[crisi]

A little wiggle room equals a lot of $$$.

Not really, not in terms of dues per point it sure doesn't. And the professed way of doing it seems fair. There has to be some sort of proportional costing mechanism. But go ahead and go in and audit if you think they are committing fraud.

 

[TexasAggie73]

Remember that the DVC books have to be audited each year by an outside auditing company.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Remember that the DVC books have to be audited each year by an outside auditing company.

And that worked fine for Enron and Arthur Anderson.

 

[hakepb]

Given that BW basically shuttered the concierge desk and most resorts have moved the majority of reservations to online check-in, what could cause such a huge bump in front-desk costs?

A lot of people keep suggesting that the trash pickups/security checks are what caused the huge bump in housekeeping costs, but is Disney double-dipping with the huge bump in security costs, as well?

I wonder if administrative includes increased MDE costs? And if so, does DVC get rebates from IT when the MDE site is down?

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

"Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings."

Community hall operations, pool games, outdoor movie nights, campfires, Disney Files Magazine, the annual condo meeting and any other perks / events which are open to ALL resort guests and owners. It does NOT include restricted events like Moonlight Magic or paid meals/dessert parties.

Thanks! I did read the definition but wasn’t sure what “certain member activities” meant. I appreciate the clarity!

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

You are permitted to make an appointment and go in and look.

But here is the thing, if you think Disney is defrauding you - because what you are saying they might be doing is fraud - illegal and unethical and just really really slimy - then you really should not be doing business with Disney.

They have some wiggle room - you either buy into that idea or you don't. But anything outside that wiggle room is fraud.

Ahhh but as I’ve learned in my career in forensic accounting, “trust but verify”

all joking aside, I would actually like to see the audits, if only out of curiosity!