5th Park inevitable ?

[rteetz]

You also have to figure in the cyclic nature of the economy. I big downturn would not be unexpected in that time frame which would push it out even further.

Yep and especially if that downturn is soon.

 

[George4]

Yep and especially if that downturn is soon.

I don't disagree with the economy concerns, and I don't think Disney is poised to build more than they have to in order to maintain a huge profit margin on the parks. However, I will continue to advocate that Disney is failing to realize how much of their potential market they are eroding themselves. So many of my peers have taken their kids to WDW only to say they will never go back because of the crowds/price gouging/wait times/food quality/etc. My perspective is that Disney has made a conscious effort to make some percentage of their guests high-income and is catering to their demands to keep them coming back in an effort to provide a backstop against fluctuations in the economy. Unfortunately, as pronounced by my peers that won't ever go back, they may be eroding their bread and butter customer for the future.

One of my observations (which I think I have made here before) comes down to use of the space at the parks. MK has close to 50 attractions, some of which are meet and greets (young kids still want to do these). The other parks have 8-16 each, many of which don't appeal to young children, and therefore many families. When our kids were young EPCOT was a 2-3 hour visit, and still isn't much longer. They've seen the movie's in the countries, and they aren't interesting a second (and third and fourth) time. Rides and shows, they are willing to do over and over. Many of their parks don't really have a high level of repeatability nor do they really have a family appeal. Huge crowds end up in MK because it appeals to many different demographics. If you want to see a bigger dispersion of crowds, there need to be attractions that appeal to more people.

In EPCOT, give every country a show or ride (not all E-tickets either), bring back all of the pavilions in FutureWorld (including all of those currently closed), and you would still need to add 10-15 attractions to bring it to equality with MK. In DHS, your total attraction account is around 16 (including the coming SW), and needs closer to 30 attractions to be a real compliment to MK. Again, these don't all need to be huge attractions. DAK is actually the closest to being a true partner to MK, but still needs close to 20 attractions to really be an equal. Disney seems obsessed with massive themed worlds right now, at the expense of adding multiple level attractions (A-E tickets in all areas) to their new areas. I love the themes, but I would much prefer to see them spend a little more and add multiple attractions to these areas. TSL seems nice, but is lacking a 2-3 attractions in my opinion. There is nothing about SW:GE that exists for younger kids (both seem like high-level E-tickets at this point and appear to be mostly simulator based).

Disney may be fine now, but I don't think they are really seeing how their business may fair in the future.

 

[George4]

I would also be curious (I know we'll never see it) if Disney keeps statistics on which people are repeat visitors, how often they repeat, if there are certain age kids that don't seem to repeat, etc. It is my opinion that they are losing huge numbers of future repeat visitors with their recent business choices, but maybe there is data to show that I am wrong. You can't justify expanding current parks or adding a 5th gate, if there aren't huge numbers of potential visitors to warrant it.

 

[DizDaD7]

I would also be curious (I know we'll never see it) if Disney keeps statistics on which people are repeat visitors, how often they repeat, if there are certain age kids that don't seem to repeat, etc. It is my opinion that they are losing huge numbers of future repeat visitors with their recent business choices, but maybe there is data to show that I am wrong. You can't justify expanding current parks or adding a 5th gate, if there aren't huge numbers of potential visitors to warrant it.

I believe that was handled when they introduced MB's....I'd say they know exactly how much we spent, what we visited often, when & where we prefer to eat @ and TBH, probably when we brush our teeth and use the restroom...LoL Just sayin.

 

[YesterDark]

Disney has all those statistics. If you are on my Disney experience, they have all that data.

 

[George4]

Disney has all those statistics. If you are on my Disney experience, they have all that data.

Not necessarily. There are people that still aren't using it, because they don't really know how to set it up and use it. Groups can't use it yet. People that only go once, there is no data on why they went once. People that only use cards and don't use MB, there is very little information on. And, lastly, people that use different logins (because they can't remember the old one) aren't connected in Disney's database. I'm sure they have some data (probably a lot), but it isn't complete, especially since they have little information on people that don't come back and why they don't come back.

 

[rteetz]

Not necessarily. There are people that still aren't using it, because they don't really know how to set it up and use it. Groups can't use it yet. People that only go once, there is no data on why they went once. People that only use cards and don't use MB, there is very little information on. And, lastly, people that use different logins (because they can't remember the old one) aren't connected in Disney's database. I'm sure they have some data (probably a lot), but it isn't complete, especially since they have little information on people that don't come back and why they don't come back.

That’s why Disney will conduct surveys. Disney has entire teams of data scientists who go over data on guests and what not. Disney is no small operation. Sure you may not figure out exact reasons for things but they can get good info from people. They know when guest spending is up or down. We live in the age of data.

 

[WB1971]

Disney needs a 5th gate right now, however that's not going to happen.

There are ebbs and flows to vacation designations, and as long as it'll take to build a 5th theme park, the economy is more than likely going to flounder and that would put Disney World is a bad economic stand point.

The crowds will die down at some point, maybe that's because some people might not go back for a few years that normally go every year because of crowds, or the economy....

they've got issues that are keeping us from going as often as we want to. Transportation and crowds are our biggest problems right now (outside of how expensive it is now)

This is why I now prefer the cruises to the parks, which I never thought I would. The cruises are basically always the same level of crowded, and to me it’s always very manageable. I haven't been able to say that about the parks since the 2009-2010 recession time. Disney Transportation is a slow slog, and now with reworked parking lots and preferred parking, even driving yourself is a big drag and long walk. Additional bottlenecks with added security measures etc. make it feel like running the gauntlet just to get in. The park experience for me has been significantly degraded, and not sure it’ll be improved with a fifth gate anyway.

 

[Dfan79]

Perhaps it is time to expand the Magic Kingdom. Since it is definitely the most popular of the 4 parks in Disney World.

(I found this on GeekDad.com)

"At more than 960 acres, Shanghai Disney is gigantic. By comparison, Disneyland is a mere 85 acres and the Magic Kingdom is 107 acres. Disney’s Animal Kingdom, which was previously the largest park (and much of which is off-limits to guests and reserved for animals) is just over 400 acres. New York City’s Central Park is 842 acres."

So basically they just have to make Magic 9 times bigger. That's all.

 

[rteetz]

Perhaps it is time to expand the Magic Kingdom. Since it is definitely the most popular of the 4 parks in Disney World.

(I found this on GeekDad.com)

"At more than 960 acres, Shanghai Disney is gigantic. By comparison, Disneyland is a mere 85 acres and the Magic Kingdom is 107 acres. Disney’s Animal Kingdom, which was previously the largest park (and much of which is off-limits to guests and reserved for animals) is just over 400 acres. New York City’s Central Park is 842 acres."

Are you sure those numbers are accurate? I don’t think the park Shanghai Disneyland is 960 acres. That has to include their DisneyTown and hotels.

 

[Dfan79]

Are you sure those numbers are accurate? I don’t think the park Shanghai Disneyland is 960 acres. That has to include their DisneyTown and hotels.

Yep, here is the web page.

https://geekdad.com/2017/09/shanghai-versus-hong-kong-disney-parks/

 

[The Pho]

Perhaps it is time to expand the Magic Kingdom. Since it is definitely the most popular of the 4 parks in Disney World.

(I found this on GeekDad.com)

"At more than 960 acres, Shanghai Disney is gigantic. By comparison, Disneyland is a mere 85 acres and the Magic Kingdom is 107 acres. Disney’s Animal Kingdom, which was previously the largest park (and much of which is off-limits to guests and reserved for animals) is just over 400 acres. New York City’s Central Park is 842 acres."

So basically they just have to make Magic 9 times bigger. That's all.

Shanghai Disney’s entire Resort size is 960 acres, not including additional phases for growth which will add about 500 more acres. The park only takes up a small portion (I want to say it’s 150 including all backstage areas but that number may be off). Animal Kingdom is still the largest park in the world.

 

[Dfan79]

Shanghai Disney’s entire Resort size is 960 acres, not including additional phases for growth which will add about 500 more acres. The park only takes up a small portion (I want to say it’s 150 including all backstage areas but that number may be off). Animal Kingdom is still the largest park in the world.

That is not what the article said. It judges park size separately and says Animal is no longer the biggest park.

 

[The Pho]

That is not what the article said. It judges park size separately and says Animal is no longer the biggest park.

The article is wrong. Shanghai’s entire property is 1.5 sq miles (963 acres) and will expand to 2.7 sq miles. The park does not take up that full plot.

 

[rteetz]

Yep, here is the web page.

https://geekdad.com/2017/09/shanghai-versus-hong-kong-disney-parks/

No way the park is 960.

 

[Dfan79]

No way the park is 960.

I think you're right, Geekdad must have messed up.

 

[The Pho]

https://disneygeek.com/shanghai/

This says the park is 225 acres.

Animal Kingdom is 580. But the largest ever remains as Six Flags Ohio at 700 before it closed.

 

[Dfan79]

https://disneygeek.com/shanghai/

This says the park is 225 acres.

Animal Kingdom is 580. But the largest ever remains as Six Flags Ohio at 700 before it closed.

Yep, don't trust Geekdad. DisneyGeek out geeked him on this one.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

I’ve always tried to find a number for how big the park was in Shanghai but always came up short. Was that ever discussed? Edit: 225? It seems a heck of a lot larger than that!

 

[Dfan79]

I’ve always tried to find a number for how big the park was in Shanghai but always came up short. Was that ever discussed? Edit: 225? It seems a heck of a lot larger than that!

I know, it seems humongous. I guess it looks even bigger though because there's so very few attractions.