Aggressive anti-rental email response from MS

[Bearval]

Agree with this.

I also think there is (should be) a legitimate concern within DVC as to whether this provision would stand up to a legal challenge. While many would argue that limiting rentals serves a greater good, we're talking about a large corporation trying to dictate how customers can use a very expensive product. Just because DVC wrote this vague language into the contract prohibiting "commercial rentals" doesn't mean that courts would agree that Internet rentals or 20+ transactions per year are a reasonable test. They may find that Disney has absolutely no right to prohibit owners from selling points after purchase.

Or they could go the other direction and uphold the clause, while expanding it to include Disney's own commercial point rental activities. This could potentially leave Disney unable to use its own point holdings to sell villas to cash guests.

DVC could consider some across-the-board policy changes which are designed to limit rentals. But there would likely be fallout for all members. For instance, if they tried to limit changes to the names on a reservation to avoid spec rentals, it would impact all of us whenever we need to make changes to a traveling party.

One thing that DVD could enforce the no commercial rentals. This would effectively close down all the 3rd party sites. Wouldn't take much for Disney to find out who is using these services and for Disney to cancel the reservations. With the "new" language these 3rd party services have in their contracts the owner will be on the hook for getting their guests a room after they show up with no DCV accommodations.

 

[tom1944]

One thing that DVD could enforce the no commercial rentals. This would effectively close down all the 3rd party sites. Wouldn't take much for Disney to find out who is using these services and for Disney to cancel the reservations. With the "new" language these 3rd party services have in their contracts the owner will be on the hook for getting their guests a room after they show up with no DCV accommodations.

I would think that would be the safest option to take if they decide to curtail rentals.

 

[OKW Lover]

I've skimmed this entire thread but not read each comment throughly. Having said that, I'm a bit in the dark about why DVC would care if members rented their points out. DVC operates at a nearly 100% occupancy rate, be it actual members or other guests.

 

[MillauFr]

What does commercial mean? Seems like a nebulous term.

 

[Bearval]

I've skimmed this entire thread but not read each comment throughly. Having said that, I'm a bit in the dark about why DVC would care if members rented their points out. DVC operates at a nearly 100% occupancy rate, be it actual members or other guests.

It is direct competition for Disney's cash bookings. If Disney didn't have this competition for the deluxe resorts they could theoretically raise the prices for these cash bookings.

 

[Bearval]

What does commercial mean? Seems like a nebulous term.

Dictionary definition - "making or intended to make a profit".

 

[Sandisw]

Who said anything about holding up a sale? Accounts were locked from making reservations or adding guest certificates. As far as I know, no sales were held up.

You quoted my comment regarding buying and selling, so that is what I thought you were referring to.

 

[Sandisw]

One thing that DVD could enforce the no commercial rentals. This would effectively close down all the 3rd party sites. Wouldn't take much for Disney to find out who is using these services and for Disney to cancel the reservations. With the "new" language these 3rd party services have in their contracts the owner will be on the hook for getting their guests a room after they show up with no DCV accommodations.

I just don't think they can. We are expressly allowed to find renters and there is no such clause that can have them define how you can do that. Using a go between to connect myself and renter does not make it renting for "commercial" purpose...

As @drusba pointed out, the FL statues are pretty strong when it comes to owners being able to rent, and any such restriction would, at least IMO, violate that. No way DVC is going to say that renting on the Disboards or FB is okay, but not if you want to hire someone to help you.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I never heard the DVC sales spiel because I was already sold on VGF when it was first announced in (I think) 2013, but I think I’ve heard that their salespeople regularly use “you can always rent out your points if you ever can’t use them” as a selling point. Please correct me if I am wrong, though.

 

[take36]

I never heard the DVC sales spiel because I was already sold on VGF when it was first announced in (I think) 2013, but I think I’ve heard that their salespeople regularly use “you can always rent out your points if you ever can’t use them” as a selling point. Please correct me if I am wrong, though.

I feel they are pivoting away from savings and money related pitches to include selling and renting. For my “pitch” in 2022 they focused on family, legacy, and generational fun. Maybe it’s how I presented and I’m older with a kid and they knew I was already staying at contemp.

 

[MillauFr]

Dictionary definition - "making or intended to make a profit".

Isn't that everyone who rents out their DVC points?

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

What does commercial mean? Seems like a nebulous term.

Dictionary definition - "making or intended to make a profit".

Yes, it is nebulous. And Disney used that language in the legal document purposefully to be able to do whatever it wants now and in the future. The other side can always sue, but good luck. As per the definition, Disney can virtually eliminate renting if they desire. I would be surprised if they do that, but Disney has surprised me before. I am still shocked about the resale restrictions, but full speed ahead on that too.

 

[HawaiianFish]

I’m not sure I would push the issue, chalk it up to a one off. Like mentioned above, in the end of the day, the contract or terms of service are very much written in favor of DVC, and as long as you get what you need…
It will be interesting to see if this becomes more frequent though. I’m renting points in July with the thread sponsor and am very happy this is an available option. I’m sure everyone can agree, the ability to rent points is a huge benefit to DVC.

 

[OKW Lover]

I never heard the DVC sales spiel because I was already sold on VGF when it was first announced in (I think) 2013, but I think I’ve heard that their salespeople regularly use “you can always rent out your points if you ever can’t use them” as a selling point. Please correct me if I am wrong, though.

They may say that but only the written agreement that we sign counts.

 

[W4WaltDisney]

I’m not sure I would push the issue, chalk it up to a one off...

I agree that it's probably best to let sleeping dogs lie. However, I would be fascinated by a supervisor's response. Please share what happens.

..As per the definition, Disney can virtually eliminate renting if they desire. I would be surprised if they do that, but Disney has surprised me before...

Exactly. There are a lot of people who rely heavily on rentals as their income or to offset dues. With the constant changes in policy, having a Plan B is important.

 

[Huskerpaul]

If Disney really wanted to stop the growth of the DVC rental industry they could go after the low hanging fruit - the DVC only rental companies like the site's sponsor. Just send a cease and desist letter stating they are commercial enterprises in the business of renting DVC points in violation of the governing documents.

Some of these companies have been around a long time and are referenced in many "Guides to WDW". Not exactly hiding what they do as a business.

Disney has not done this because they do not care. I believe they do not care because they want those rooms occupied by any means necessary.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I believe they do not care because they want those rooms occupied by any means necessary.

As well as the fact that (1) probably many people who first try DVC by renting points end up becoming owners, (2) crashing the resale market by severely restricting rentals would have a chilling effect on the sake of new points.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Disney has not done this because they do not care. I believe they do not care because they want those rooms occupied by any means necessary.

I would guess Disney would "prefer" that I stay in my own room, and that the potential renter also pays for a cash room. Two occupied rooms are better than one.

 

[TinkAgainU]

I’m not sure I would push the issue, chalk it up to a one off. Like mentioned above, in the end of the day, the contract or terms of service are very much written in favor of DVC, and as long as you get what you need…

Wyndham Bonnet Creek started cancelling reservations (when people arrived for their stay!) based on what they though were excessive rentals by certain owners. One of the Wyndham Onsite salepeople (so roughly as credible as the Disney Shuttle Drivers) said Wyndham found that action increased "new" memberships since people were afraid to rent points from anyone they did not know directly. FWIW I know it made me shy away (and I bought more personal use points at DVC lol).

 

[sethschroeder]

Wyndham fixed it pretty quick, sent a few letters then canceled reservations.

Did they? I see rentals all the time for their brand around me personally. Maybe they didnt target all of them though and the ones around me are fine to rent for some reason?