Aggressive anti-rental email response from MS

Change your search to Dec 2-9 and see what you get. Almost every single WDW property has no full availability in any room category for those dates.

This is specifically what I brought up to DVC when I talked with the team that does the point chart balancing. Their answer was they balance points based on WDW as a whole which makes no sense.

December 2-9 is a great example of the busiest DVC time of the year.

Who cares when WDW is the busiest for most of us that own DVC I suspect we actively avoid those dates if possible. Heck I bet those "stuck" going over spring break even long for the days they can go during a slower period which is high DVC season.
 
This message would be coming from the legal and compliance department at DVCMC and be addressed to the entire membership at large.
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If DVC was actively taking action they would likely never send anything to the membership as a whole. The reason being it only alerts people to options for renting their points or renting others points instead of buying more.

The only way they do a letter like that is if they were extremely aggressive afterwards to the point of calling people to verify reservations which I dont see.
 
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If DVC was actively taking action they would likely never send anything to the membership as a whole. The reason being it only alerts people to options for renting their points or renting others points instead of buying more.

The only way they do a letter like that is if they were extremely aggressive afterwards to the point of calling people to verify reservations which I dont see.
Even if that is true (but history suggest otherwise given they already addressed the membership at large about the 20 reservation rule) it still would be the legal and compliance not a front end CM sending an email to an owner.

Especially with a change in the rule to mean all internet based rentals wouldn’t be allowed.
 
If they ever restrict personal renting, that'll cure any add-on-itis I have. One of the reasons I feel comfortable in adding more points is knowing that I can rent it out in the off chance that I can't use them. Don't forget that what we have now is what gives DVC its value. Restricting rentals sounds great on the surface and I'm sure other timeshares do it. But it's also why the value of a DVC timeshare is higher than the others.
You're not the problem. "In THE OFF CHANCE, I CAN'T USE THEM' is not the problem/issue .

It's the owners that have dozens of reservations (pages) and they never travel. Year after year.
DVC has the business that helps the member as a whole. They make the money not the renters.
 
Did they? I see rentals all the time for their brand around me personally. Maybe they didnt target all of them though and the ones around me are fine to rent for some reason?
I think Wyndam just pulled reservations for a few of the Bonnet Creek owners who they felt were a bit too active in rentals? It was obviously not all of them, but if they just did it to a few (which is what DVC MS was indicating they Could do) - it was enough to hit the Wyndam boards (and the DVC boards) as a heads up ... at that point I would not have rented Bonnet Creek thru Any service for fear we'd arrive to cancelled reservations. We fly into Orlando from the west coast, so that would be a disaster start to a trip.
 
it still would be the legal and compliance not a front end CM sending an email to an owner.

Why? Its in the contract you can't rent as a commercial means.

I just dont see it being sent everyone as a gentle reminder unless Disney gets aggressive based on my professional experience but that experience is outside the timeshare industry so possibly they deal with it differently since its deeded interests.
 
Did they? I see rentals all the time for their brand around me personally. Maybe they didnt target all of them though and the ones around me are fine to rent for some reason?
My understanding is that they limited rentals to 2 per year per owner, but only in what they define as “peak” times (Thanksgiving, Christmas, summer, etc.) but that rentals outside of these peak times are more or less unlimited. Also there is an “official” rental agency (Extra Holidays) through which owners can rent their points, but which does not typically pay them as much as private rentals do (and addresses the rental limit rule by not offering any rentals at all during “peak” times).
 
My understanding is that they limited rentals to 2 per year per owner, but only in what they define as “peak” times (Thanksgiving, Christmas, summer, etc.) but that rentals outside of these peak times are more or less unlimited. Also there is an “official” rental agency (Extra Holidays) through which owners can rent their points, but which does not typically pay them as much as private rentals do (and addresses the rental limit rule by not offering any rentals at all during “peak” times).
Makes perfect sense thanks.

Never looked before just looked at possible renting at times for a quick weekend getaway.
 
Some comments to a number of points that have been raised (long)...
Solutions suggesting more strict restrictions on the ability to rent have the legal issues I mentioned above, and anything created will most likely have adverse effects not just on rentals but members in general, e.g., lowering the 20-reservation presumption to 10 reservations would most likely adversely effect a large number of member’s who make ten or more reservations in a year’s period and never rent. The problem DVC has is the lack of information on whether reservations made by members are rentals and thus lacks the ability to track rentals by a member and determine whether a member is acting as a commercial enterprise. There may be no easy solution, but one possibility I thought of, but have not researched enough to determine if DVC could actually do it, is for DVC to simply adopt a rule requiring the member to provide a form that verifies whether a reservation is or is not a rental. That would give DVC information that it could collect on any given member and make evaluations as to whether there may be a violation of the pattern clause. A member could, of course, lie but discovery of the lie could itself have ramifications.

An alternative that would also provide the ability to track rental information per member is to adopt a rule requiring a member to provide a copy of the written rental agreement signed by the parties to the rental if there is a rental. Article XIII, sec. 13.2, of the declarations provides that all rentals require written agreements and have terms requiring the renter to use the Vacation Home only as allowed in the declarations. DVC could require a copy of the agreement be provided by the member to allow it to confirm the agreement meets the requirements in the declarations.
One other mentioned approach was for Disney to make changes to the 11/7 month booking priority which allocated pre-booking priority ONLY to owner/extended family, and add a 5 month priority for others. That would require the owner be present at check-in or have someone Listed as Extended Family (much like the Associates list on the Account now) who must be there as the check-in person. Extended Family would be limited to Associates plus a couple other Extended Family names per account, which could only be changed a couple times each year. Would not stop rentals, but if there are fewer options to book a specific date when someone wants to rent DVC points, they are more likely to simply go for cash rooms. Owners could still rent out their points, but would be more likely to encourage their use by Extended Family (note, they could "rent" to that extended family list too).
 
One other mentioned approach was for Disney to make changes to the 11/7 month booking priority which allocated pre-booking priority ONLY to owner/extended family, and add a 5 month priority for others. That would require the owner be present at check-in or have someone Listed as Extended Family (much like the Associates list on the Account now) who must be there as the check-in person. Extended Family would be limited to Associates plus a couple other Extended Family names per account, which could only be changed a couple times each year. Would not stop rentals, but if there are fewer options to book a specific date when someone wants to rent DVC points, they are more likely to simply go for cash rooms. Owners could still rent out their points, but would be more likely to encourage their use by Extended Family (note, they could "rent" to that extended family list too).
For this to work as intended they would also need to abolish online (and in-app) check-in and direct-to-room service, and insist that the lead guest show up physically at the front desk, photo ID in hand, before the room could be accessed. Sounds like a sledgehammer approach that would cause immense confusion and vastly more complaints by members compared to the current level of complaints about the existence of the rental market (which I believe to be quite small).
 
For this to work as intended they would also need to abolish online (and in-app) check-in and direct-to-room service, and insist that the lead guest show up physically at the front desk, photo ID in hand, before the room could be accessed. Sounds like a sledgehammer approach that would cause immense confusion and vastly more complaints by members compared to the current level of complaints about the existence of the rental market (which I believe to be quite small).
I agree some challenges, although if someone is checking in thru the App they would already be confirmed as the person on the reservation (and liable for damages, expenses etc) so I see few wanting to pretend to check in for others. I actually saw a Lot of support for this from members disgruntled at losing rooms to the rental owners, so I'm not sure as many would fight it as you think. But we Disney people do dislike change lol.
 
I agree some challenges, although if someone is checking in thru the App they would already be confirmed as the person on the reservation (and liable for damages, expenses etc) so I see few wanting to pretend to check in for others. I actually saw a Lot of support for this from members disgruntled at losing rooms to the rental owners, so I'm not sure as many would fight it as you think. But we Disney people do dislike change lol.
The points owner is the one liable for damages regardless of whether their name is on the reservation. So in the extremely unlikely event of loss or damage, Disney would pursue the owner first. If the renters have signed a rental contract agreeing to be responsible for damage, the owner could then pursue the renters.
 
One other mentioned approach was for Disney to make changes to the 11/7 month booking priority which allocated pre-booking priority ONLY to owner/extended family, and add a 5 month priority for others. That would require the owner be present at check-in or have someone Listed as Extended Family (much like the Associates list on the Account now) who must be there as the check-in person. Extended Family would be limited to Associates plus a couple other Extended Family names per account, which could only be changed a couple times each year. Would not stop rentals, but if there are fewer options to book a specific date when someone wants to rent DVC points, they are more likely to simply go for cash rooms. Owners could still rent out their points, but would be more likely to encourage their use by Extended Family (note, they could "rent" to that extended family list too).

Not sure they could for booking the home resort. The rules have to be the same for everyone and since our contract currently defines personal use as owners and guests, they can’t make it so an owner has to be on the reservation.

As mentioned, the post by @drusba detials things out pretty good in terms of the contract and the law.

While DVC has sometimes taken liberty with their interpretation of some of the contract language, they are not going yo blatantly go against what they know is a violation of way the laws are written regsrding rentals for timeshare owners.
 
I would guess Disney would "prefer" that I stay in my own room, and that the potential renter also pays for a cash room. Two occupied rooms are better than one.

That is another way Disney can quash the renter market. Selling unreserved rooms for cash at the same price as the point resale companies are doing.
 
The problem is dvc has sent letters to owners saying that commercial is anything rented over the internet. That includes almost all rentals— except for the sometimes renter who rents to people they know or to acquaintances. So yes, DVC seems to be okay with people who rent once in a while, but not people who rent on a regular basis (“a pattern of rental behavior.”). Everything in the contract ultimately says that Disney can decide what commercial activity is, and, as stated in the letter, Disney is taking a hard line.
AFAIK this discussion has been generated by one (1) instance of a member inaccurately letting member services know that a rental service was going to be contacting DVC to confirm a reservation. 1 - it was reply to that message from a CM, not a letter of any kind nor to multiple owners and 2 - the owner was asking for something that DVC cannot do. Talk to those who are not on the membership account either as owners or as associate members. This single instance should not be morphed into something larger than that with any indication that letters have gone out. And it was a response from an individual CM stating something that just doesn't exist.
 
One other mentioned approach was for Disney to make changes to the 11/7 month booking priority which allocated pre-booking priority ONLY to owner/extended family, and add a 5 month priority for others. That would require the owner be present at check-in or have someone Listed as Extended Family (much like the Associates list on the Account now) who must be there as the check-in person. Extended Family would be limited to Associates plus a couple other Extended Family names per account, which could only be changed a couple times each year. Would not stop rentals, but if there are fewer options to book a specific date when someone wants to rent DVC points, they are more likely to simply go for cash rooms. Owners could still rent out their points, but would be more likely to encourage their use by Extended Family (note, they could "rent" to that extended family list too
That cannot happen absent an amendment to the POS actually voted on by the members. Under the POS, reservations must always be detemrmined on a first come first served basis with the only priority for any reservations being the home resort versus non-home resort reservation difference. That difference can be changed to as little as a one-month difference, e.g., 11 months and 10 months, but DVC cannot create any other prioorities Based on the type of reservation or otherwise.
 
One other mentioned approach was for Disney to make changes to the 11/7 month booking priority which allocated pre-booking priority ONLY to owner/extended family, and add a 5 month priority for others. That would require the owner be present at check-in or have someone Listed as Extended Family (much like the Associates list on the Account now) who must be there as the check-in person. Extended Family would be limited to Associates plus a couple other Extended Family names per account, which could only be changed a couple times each year. Would not stop rentals, but if there are fewer options to book a specific date when someone wants to rent DVC points, they are more likely to simply go for cash rooms. Owners could still rent out their points, but would be more likely to encourage their use by Extended Family (note, they could "rent" to that extended family list too).
I supposed I'd need to read the POS for the 5th or 6th time but my initial thought is that would violate a 1st come 1st served provision by placing a certain group in a priority. It couldn't be done anymore than making a different priority booking period for those who purchase via resale vs direct.
 

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