Barca33Runner's Journal: Thanks For Noticin' Me(Comments Welcome)

[Barca33Runner]

Back from vacation and a 6-mile bike ride pulling my four-year-old nephew around Mackinaw Island and five rounds of golf were about as close as I got to exercise. Good thing was that I only crashed twice riding the bike and my nephew was completely unscathed; my right leg will have some nice bruises for a while though. For those of you wondering how you go about crashing on a bike, well, there's really no excuse. I haven't been on a bike for over twenty years and I had a an issue figuring out how to stop. My nephew was in something called a Weehoo and, beyond not really knowing how to stop in the first place, I vastly underestimated how much the Weehoo could throw off the equilibrium of the bike. Like I said, no good excuses and I got it figured out but it was pretty embarrassing. As my nephew said, "we got the falling, crashing spaceship." (That's what he and my niece were calling them)

Hips and abdomen are feeling good and I decided to go out for four miles today. I was way too excited and ended up averaging 9:33 pace for the run, but I was feeling good and happy afterward. Hopefully things continue to get better. I am starting my diet and am really planning on kicking things into high gear headed for my November Half.

 

[Barca33Runner]

I got back to running last week and put up 15 miles. Not exactly what I had in mind, but fortunately it was being busy and having life get in the way rather than injuries that kept the mileage down. Off to a good start this week with 6.5 on Sunday and 4 on Monday. I think I'll be back up over 30 this week and moving forward toward my goals rather than backwards for the first time in about a month.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Question for anyone who knows more about this stuff than me (so everyone, essentially):

I have been trying to focus more closely on effort and heart rate during my training runs but I am starting to get very confused. I've recently run a 2:09 Half and 26:03 5K, so I'm not fast but those aren't terrible times, and I think they're pretty representative of what I'm capable of right now. My resting heart rate is around 40 bpm and I'm pretty sure that my heart rate monitor is functioning well. That said, I have been unable to keep my heart rate under 150 bpm while running despite slowing my pace to under 11:30/mile. Even at this pace I'm getting up over 160 pretty quickly. I've never run this slowly at any point during the past four years and despite feeling comfortable with the effort I'm exerting my heart apparently disagrees with how "easy" I'm taking these training runs. Anyone have any opinions of what could be going on? Am I drastically overestimating the pace that should be a relaxed pace for me?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Question for anyone who knows more about this stuff than me (so everyone, essentially):

I have been trying to focus more closely on effort and heart rate during my training runs but I am starting to get very confused. I've recently run a 2:09 Half and 26:03 5K, so I'm not fast but those aren't terrible times, and I think they're pretty representative of what I'm capable of right now. My resting heart rate is around 40 bpm and I'm pretty sure that my heart rate monitor is functioning well. That said, I have been unable to keep my heart rate under 150 bpm while running despite slowing my pace to under 11:30/mile. Even at this pace I'm getting up over 160 pretty quickly. I've never run this slowly at any point during the past four years and despite feeling comfortable with the effort I'm exerting my heart apparently disagrees with how "easy" I'm taking these training runs. Anyone have any opinions of what could be going on? Am I drastically overestimating the pace that should be a relaxed pace for me?

Based on a 2:09 Half your training paces would be:



And based on a 26:03 5K your training paces would be (I would suggest training at these paces dependent on this being a recent performance):



What I typically refer to as easy is "Easy A" and I would describe it as the following. When you're running you barely notice your breathing. It feels almost no different breathing wise compared to walking. Every once in a while you might have to take an extra breath, but in general no noticeable breathing changes. If you run on hills during EA, you will notice your breathing a tad more, but still not too much. It should feel like you could run this pace forever.

Typically, I don't start to hit rhythmic breathing until "M Tempo" pace or in the later miles of a "long run" pace.

And based on your RHR (40) and approximate age, your HR zones are:



The key part of the HR calculations is what your actual max HR is. The 220-age calculation is a very rough calculation and real data trumps that number. For instance, you could have a real max HR of 205 and your HR chart would be the following:



So the question is based on your HR data, what was the peak HR you got in a full out speed workout (like the end of a 5K you tried really hard at). This would give us a rough max HR to work with.

It's my personal experience with using Hansons and correlating their paces to HR that the "long run" pace corresponds to my body's cutoff between Zone 2 and 3. Easy is Zone 2 and below. And marathon tempo and up is Zone 3 and above. Even at speed workouts (5K pace, but with Rest Intervals), I very rarely get up to Zone 5.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Based on a 2:09 Half your training paces would be:

View attachment 188584

And based on a 26:03 5K your training paces would be (I would suggest training at these paces dependent on this being a recent performance):

View attachment 188585

What I typically refer to as easy is "Easy A" and I would describe it as the following. When you're running you barely notice your breathing. It feels almost no different breathing wise compared to walking. Every once in a while you might have to take an extra breath, but in general no noticeable breathing changes. If you run on hills during EA, you will notice your breathing a tad more, but still not too much. It should feel like you could run this pace forever.

Typically, I don't start to hit rhythmic breathing until "M Tempo" pace or in the later miles of a "long run" pace.

And based on your RHR (40) and approximate age, your HR zones are:

View attachment 188587

The key part of the HR calculations is what your actual max HR is. The 220-age calculation is a very rough calculation and real data trumps that number. For instance, you could have a real max HR of 205 and your HR chart would be the following:

View attachment 188588

So the question is based on your HR data, what was the peak HR you got in a full out speed workout (like the end of a 5K you tried really hard at). This would give us a rough max HR to work with.

It's my personal experience with using Hansons and correlating their paces to HR that the "long run" pace corresponds to my body's cutoff between Zone 2 and 3. Easy is Zone 2 and below. And marathon tempo and up is Zone 3 and above. Even at speed workouts (5K pace, but with Rest Intervals), I very rarely get up to Zone 5.

Thank you so much. I knew I could count on someone to make sense of this for me (and I knew it would most likely be you). I usually end one treadmill session per week by ramping up my mph by .1 for every tenth of a mile I run and keep going until I am either content with the effort or can't keep up. I'm usually running faster than my 5K pace when I finally give in and my heart rate is usually in the 193 range; so I guess I'm somewhere in the middle of the two tables you've offered.

I think I was overestimating a bit on what my pace should be for my Zone 2-3 runs and I also run with a 3% incline on the treadmill and have some pretty significant hills in the 1.25-mile loop I run so I think those factors are also relevant to a slower pace. Still getting used to taking a measured approach to training rather than just going 100% every time I get out there. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thank you so much. I knew I could count on someone to make sense of this for me (and I knew it would most likely be you). I usually end one treadmill session per week by ramping up my mph by .1 for every tenth of a mile I run and keep going until I am either content with the effort or can't keep up. I'm usually running faster than my 5K pace when I finally give in and my heart rate is usually in the 193 range; so I guess I'm somewhere in the middle of the two tables you've offered.

I think I was overestimating a bit on what my pace should be for my Zone 2-3 runs and I also run with a 3% incline on the treadmill and have some pretty significant hills in the 1.25-mile loop I run so I think those factors are also relevant to a slower pace. Still getting used to taking a measured approach to training rather than just going 100% every time I get out there. Thanks for all of your help.

No problem, happy to help. Just for completeness here is the chart with a 193 max:

 

[Barca33Runner]

Just a little update. During my 11-mile treadmill run today I took the incline from 3% to 0% after 9 miles and left the speed constant. My HR had crept up to 170 during the last couple miles and I wanted to see how the incline was affecting my effort. My HR dropped down to 154 and basically leveled off for the remainder of the run. So I guess running with an incline is increasing my effort a lot more than I thought.

 

[FFigawi]

Just a little update. During my 11-mile treadmill run today I took the incline from 3% to 0% after 9 miles and left the speed constant. My HR had crept up to 170 during the last couple miles and I wanted to see how the incline was affecting my effort. My HR dropped down to 154 and basically leveled off for the remainder of the run. So I guess running with an incline is increasing my effort a lot more than I thought.

For what it's worth, you should leave the incline at 1-1.5% in order to better simulate the resistance you feel when running outside. 3% is basically a long steady hill climb, and it's to be expected it will increase your effort some.

 

[Barca33Runner]

I forgot to update last week, but I was able to run 31 miles a week ago and 21 miles last week. No excuses last week. I got busy, it was hot and I just allowed myself to take the easy road a few days. I officially added a run next weekend, it's the Perfect 10 Miler in Cleveland. First time I will ever be running that particular distance so it will be a PR, but I am just using it as a training run and an offset to all of the fair food that I will be eating later in the day on Sunday. No injuries since returning to running, so I am happy to be back on track.

 

[FFigawi]

I forgot to update last week, but I was able to run 31 miles a week ago and 21 miles last week. No excuses last week. I got busy, it was hot and I just allowed myself to take the easy road a few days.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are times when we all need to take it easy from training, though unlike you, too many people refuse to do so.

 

[Ariel484]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are times when we all need to take it easy from training, though unlike you, too many people refuse to do so.

*applause*

Life happens. Don't beat yourself up over it!

 

[Barca33Runner]

Finished the Perfect 10 Miler this morning in a little over 1:44. It was a very good training run, but since I can't stop myself from getting a little competitive I was a little disappointed that I didn't go a little quicker. I hit a bit of a wall after mile 6 and looking at my watch after the race that is when my heart rate started hitting zone 5. The plan was always for this to be a training "fun" run so I'm not really disappointed; I just always expect more from myself. This gave me a good feel for where my training is and is a good motivation moving forward.

I spent the day yesterday at the Ohio State football game followed by a drive back to Cleveland and a BBQ dinner. I wouldn't have been so brazen were I taking the race more seriously, but I can confirm (once again) that brisket, ribs, French fries, and apple slaw make for a very poor pre race meal. I'm pretty sure I had a two pound meat and carb brick in my stomach for the whole race. Strangely it doesn't make you move faster.

 

[Barca33Runner]

I've been super busy and have completely neglected my journal (and reading others) for the past few weeks. Sorry for the lack of updates. My training is going well and I plan on giving a longer updates sometime later this week.

 

[Barca33Runner]

I've been avoiding making this post for a while, but I think it's good to get this out there and put things all on the table. First off, nothing is wrong (as far as I know). I feel good both physically and mentally. Unfortunately, I have barely run in the last few weeks because I have gotten so busy at work. I work in agriculture and harvest has been on since early September and won't be finished for another few weeks. This means that I am working at least six days a week, leaving home at 7:00 AM and not returning until after 8:00 PM. It shouldn't be an excuse to miss my runs, but I have been exhausted and just haven't made the time. On top of that I end up eating garbage because I am too tired to make a decent meal when I get home. I think I am turning my November Half into another training run before making a big push to finish Dopey training on a good note.

I am not sure I am going to be able to achieve my goal this time out. The lost fitness (probably not all that bad) and added weight (sadly, a bigger problem) has made my goal a little more difficult. I am not giving up and will do everything I can moving forward to turn things around and get back moving in the right direction. It's just very frustrating to feel that I haven't done my best for the last couple months. Thanks for letting me vent a little bit.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Vent away! I'm hoping these last couple of weeks of harvest go better for you and then you'll have that push you're looking for. You've got this!

 

[Ariel484]

If life gets in the way, I think it's okay to be honest with yourself (as you are doing) and change your goals FOR NOW. This is just a bump in the road - don't beat yourself up!

 

[Barca33Runner]

Vent away! I'm hoping these last couple of weeks of harvest go better for you and then you'll have that push you're looking for. You've got this!

If life gets in the way, I think it's okay to be honest with yourself (as you are doing) and change your goals FOR NOW. This is just a bump in the road - don't beat yourself up!

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I was able to get in 3.5 miles today so that's a step in the right direction. It was definitely an "I'm not mad at you, I'm just disappointed" moment.

 

[Barca33Runner]

I posted over in the Running Thread about my disastrous Half on Saturday but figured I'd give a little more extensive recap here.

I arrived at the race knowing that it would not be a fun experience. Maybe this was self-fulfilling prophecy for how things went later in the day, but I tend to think that I was being realistic about how my training had (not) gone. My early miles were in the 10:30 range and I knew the effort was much too difficult. I was monitoring my HR throughout and decided that when I got up over 180 I would slow down and let it work back down to a better range. Unfortunately, after mile 6, anything above a walk was immediately sending my HR skyrocketing back to the 180+ range. The back half of the race was incredibly embarrassing for me; yet I knew that those around me were really putting in great efforts and achieving personal goals so I felt really bad for feeling really bad. I did my best and finished at 2:30 and tried my hardest to keep a smile on my face.

It was awesome to see that everyone here seemed to have the opposite experience from me over the weekend. Achieving new PR's and nailing long-standing goals. I want that experience and know that I can turn things around. My legs are telling me I need another day before getting back into some cross-training, but I am ready to go and motivated not to let myself down in this way again.

 

[Ariel484]

Don't be so hard on yourself! You haven't been able to train as much lately, but not because you're too lazy or you don't want to - you have a valid excuse. I know you can turn it around! Great job finishing.

 

[roxymama]

I second what Ariel said!

The good races feel even better when they happen, because we've all been in situations where we didn't have a great race. The thing to remember is that you finished when it was hard to finish...and that's sometimes more of a feat than when you finish a race and it feels easy.
I had one "DNS" this year and it still bugs me that I didn't just go do it no matter the outcome.
But you started it and finished it and that's pretty cool.

But vent away anytime you need to