Blue Card Increased Info 100 to 125 (Effective Oct 19)

[dvc lover 1970]

First, I want to say I'm happy for the people that bought in at super low minimums for direct benefits, as low as 25 points. When I say it was a dumb move by DVD to give direct benefits for as few as 25 points, I don't mean to disparage those who took advantage, especially because I'm super jealous of yall.

But they really screw it up when direct benefits are low thresholds. With so many people in as direct members it dilutes the special things DVD is able to do. A huge pot means more "costs" to any variable cost benefit while overcrowding and creating too much demand fixed costs stuff like Moonlight Magic. If they didn't give basically everyone direct benefits we wouldn't see as many complaints of people not getting Moonlight Magic.

Unfortunately the period of super low threshold direct benefits overlapped nearly exactly with Poly and CC point hog bungalows and cabins, creating other issues.

Increasing the minimum benefits requirement will eventually allow DVD to create more special benefits for members, stuff that can further differentiate direct and resale, differences that will ultimately push more direct sales.

Increasing the minimum for benefits should in theory immediately help sales considering the number of people saying "buy only the min and then buy the rest resale." With strategies like that, it's no wonder DVD looked to both undercut resale and further differentiate direct.

And yes I acknowledge the "get off my lawn" mentality of this post.

While DVD initially had a set buy in at around 260 points (back when OKW was the only DVC), the cost was more reasonable - still expensive-but still reasonable. I have a mix of early grandfathered resale points (pre any resale restrictions) and direct add-ons. I don't think disney ever anticipated the resale market as viable as it is-but I think resale is a small percent of new owners, but thanks to the internet growing. I certainly do not blame disney for implementing blue card changes/privileges for resale buyers. The only perk that is worth the blue card is the AP in my honest opinion-so if you do not need that then its really not worth the blue card. I do not like the "games" disney plays with these numbers 25 -75 - 100 -???How many direct points are needed for the blue card. In my opinon they need to pick a number and stick to it, but also need to be careful as too high could turn people away. 125 might be the limit for many. I honestly think 100 is an even and fair number for the blue card. There are some resale buyers who consider adding on over the years for the blue card, but if they keep increasing it, then that will eventually keep them on resale and never consider direct.

 

[ScubaCat]

The only perk that is worth the blue card is the AP in my honest

Let's be honest - the mickey ice cream bars at moonlight magic is the best perk!

But really, this feels odd to me. I'm holding out judgment until I see it officially changed. I still think it may just be a new member minimum. (My monorail conductor concurs.)

 

[Doberge]

I also think they're slowly building up minimums in advance of the new California Hotel. I'm guessing it will open with ridiculously high point requirements and thus a need to increase minimum buy-ins (new and add-on)). It'll also be high per point. I wouldn't be surprised to see it start at $230, considering the demand for California.

Expected high California price is also why it's probably a good idea Reflections is on hold and not set to overlap with California. That's good for WDW because I don't think the WDW buyer market can stomach what the California market will. Riviera will likely still exists when California opens and they're probably hoping to end Riviera and California around the time before whatever will be next at WDW, which I can see marketed as needing fewer points despite high buy-in.

 

[LilyJC]

Let's be honest - the mickey ice cream bars at moonlight magic is the best perk!

I agreed with this sentiment at the last DL MM where they still had all the ice cream options out (I think it was 2017...)! I much prefer the Mickey ice cream sandwiches, and my mom enjoyed at least a couple frozen bananas. The kids tried almost everything I think. I’m sure it’s easier and more efficient to just have two options: Mickey bar or strawberry bar, but I still miss all the options!

 

[Kickstart]

But they really screw it up when direct benefits are low thresholds...

...
Flip side is even if they removed 50% of all direct members would they actually improve the benefits?

^ This... they likely didn't screw up anything because they're not going to offer more than they need to (to entice new buyers).
I assume the reason they've been restricting benefits for non-direct buyers is they realized there's no point in giving away money (in the form of direct benefits) to entice someone to buy resale.

Is the AP discount really a benefit?... or is it a way to encourage members to purchase enough points to cover 10+ days per year?

Anyone know what percentage of members are white card only? I'm thinking it can't be that high.

Also, all points stared out as direct (obviously) so I assume the original plan was to give direct benefits to everyone.

 

[mgarbowski]

Is the AP discount really a benefit?... or is it a way to encourage members to purchase enough points to cover 10+ days per year?

My impressions is that outside of locals and regionals who mix DVC trips with day trips and non-dvc short stays, DVC annual passes are (mostly) bought by people who manage to schedule their annual trips within 52 weeks. EG, go 3rd week of May one year, then 1st week of May the next.

 

[striker1064]

Is the AP discount really a benefit?... or is it a way to encourage members to purchase enough points to cover 10+ days per year?

It's a marketing gimmick, pure and simple. Great for those who really plan around it and use it, but otherwise wasted on a lot of people. Friends of ours bought 75 at CCV to get the perks and they buy/renew their Gold AP every year. You'll note 75 annual points is not enough to actually make use of the Gold AP, they are wasting money and should be buying only day tickets. But they don't care because they're buying the AP for a discount. It's a way for Disney to make even more money on unsuspecting buyers. Those of us who plan our trips to get 2-3 uses every 52 weeks and skip the next 52, or actually do the math of an AP over day tickets, is very small.

 

[havoc315]

It's a marketing gimmick, pure and simple. Great for those who really plan around it and use it, but otherwise wasted on a lot of people. Friends of ours bought 75 at CCV to get the perks and they buy/renew their Gold AP every year. You'll note 75 annual points is not enough to actually make use of the Gold AP, they are wasting money and should be buying only day tickets. But they don't care because they're buying the AP for a discount. It's a way for Disney to make even more money on unsuspecting buyers. Those of us who plan our trips to get 2-3 uses every 52 weeks and skip the next 52, or actually do the math of an AP over day tickets, is very small.

Considering that "renewal" is also more discounted than buying a new AP, just for the years you want it, it's really only a benefit to locals and to those planning multiple trips every year, for year after year.
While that's certainly a portion of DVC owners... For those DVC owners doing 1 trip per year or less, it's entirely useless.

 

[Sandisw]

Considering that "renewal" is also more discounted than buying a new AP, just for the years you want it, it's really only a benefit to locals and to those planning multiple trips every year, for year after year.
While that's certainly a portion of DVC owners... For those DVC owners doing 1 trip per year or less, it's entirely useless.

It is definitely a nice perk but it does not meet everyone’s needs. As you said, you have to be strategic in staggering trips but families of 4 can make it pay for itself in a very short time even with one yesrly trip,

Not to mention the dining and shopping discounts and memory makers Now, you can get that with buying one regularly priced AP for the family too.

I bought my DDs boyfriend a 6 day ticket discounted and it cost me close to $500. But my DD got an AP...she is now an owner with me...for $719 plus tax.

Just gotta run the numbers for your situation. I mean 100 points at the least expensive resorts of SSR and OKW is only about $60/ more..or $6000...that family of 4, even with ever other, make it up in about 8 years.

 

[striker1064]

Just gotta run the numbers for your situation. I mean 100 points at the least expensive resorts of SSR and OKW is only about $60/ more..or $6000...that family of 4, even with ever other, make it up in about 8 years.

And I absolutely think that math to justify the direct markup is part of why Disney markets it. Once you've done the math, now you "have" to buy at least 8 years' worth of APs to make it worthwhile. So then maybe you go more often to justify paying for the AP. It's pretty easy to see how it gets rolling.

 

[Sandisw]

And I absolutely think that math to justify the direct markup is part of why Disney markets it. Once you've done the math, now you "have" to buy at least 8 years' worth of APs to make it worthwhile. So then maybe you go more often to justify paying for the AP. It's pretty easy to see how it gets rolling.

The 8 years is buying one every other year. If one gets them yearly and goes enough, it’s covered in about 4!

 

[Lorana]

The 8 years is buying one every other year. If one gets them yearly and goes enough, it’s covered in about 4!

This is pretty much why we bought some direct points. We bought DVC not just so we could “save” but so we could go more often. AP discounts to allow for more frequent, shorter trips was part of our equation. And it’s a big savings for a family of 4!

 

[4luv2cdisney]

It's a marketing gimmick, pure and simple. Great for those who really plan around it and use it, but otherwise wasted on a lot of people. Friends of ours bought 75 at CCV to get the perks and they buy/renew their Gold AP every year. You'll note 75 annual points is not enough to actually make use of the Gold AP, they are wasting money and should be buying only day tickets. But they don't care because they're buying the AP for a discount. It's a way for Disney to make even more money on unsuspecting buyers. Those of us who plan our trips to get 2-3 uses every 52 weeks and skip the next 52, or actually do the math of an AP over day tickets, is very small.

Considering that "renewal" is also more discounted than buying a new AP, just for the years you want it, it's really only a benefit to locals and to those planning multiple trips every year, for year after year.
While that's certainly a portion of DVC owners... For those DVC owners doing 1 trip per year or less, it's entirely useless.

I have 60 points at BWV and my last 2 trips were 6 night trips 11 months apart. I paid $550 per AP. Day tix on those trips would have been over $1000.

Even with current pricing, a renewal is $600 ish and a 7 day hopper for my next trip runs $550ish on www.undercovertourist.com So, it's not impossible for an AP which includes photopass downloads and other perks to make sense even if only getting 1 use out of it.

Now, maybe you only need to buy for 1 family member in that case, but also sometimes you don't know your long term plan and spending an extra $50 per person in case you can swing a 2nd trip etc is worth the risk for some. A last minute weekend on cash or rented points can suddenly become possible. My daughter and I took a 3 day/2 night trip once because we scored $49 flights and MM tix with just a small points transfer to stay @ SSR.

ETA: My direct vs resale purchase "upcharge" was around $3000 (2017) and I'm already about even on my entire DVC purchase when comparing to what cash trips with a discount would have cost.

 

[ScubaCat]

Just gotta run the numbers for your situation. I mean 100 points at the least expensive resorts of SSR and OKW is only about $60/ more..or $6000...that family of 4, even with ever other, make it up in about 8 years

It's also 6 bucks per mickey ice cream bar in the parks now.... Just saying...

I find the gold AP to be a great perk, and would certainly miss it if it went away. But the extra cost of direct points does have to be factored in. I'd probably do the every 2 or 3 year AP thing without it.

 

[Lorana]

I have 60 points at BWV and my last 2 trips were 6 night trips 11 months apart. I paid $550 per AP. Day tix on those trips would have been over $1000.

Even with current pricing, a renewal is $600 ish and a 7 day hopper for my next trip runs $550ish on www,undercovertourist,com. So, it's not impossible for an AP which includes photopass downloads and other perks to make sense even if only getting 1 use out of it.

Now, maybe you only need to buy for 1 family member in that case, but also sometimes you don't know your long term plan and spending an extra $50 per person in case you can swing a 2nd trip etc is worth the risk for some. A last minute weekend on cash or rented points can suddenly become possible. My daughter and I took a 3 day/2 night trip once because we scored $49 flights and MM tix with just a small points transfer to stay @ SSR.

ETA: My direct vs resale purchase "upcharge" was around $3000 (2017) and I'm already about even on my entire DVC purchase when comparing to what cash trips with a discount would have cost.

These are all excellent points!

In the days before we bought DVC - don't even get me started. In hindsight, I wish I had been ready to pull the trigger - we did a big trip to WDW over the Christmas and New Years Holiday before my oldest turned 10 (as we wanted a big trip before adult pricing kicked in for him). We did the Disney Fantasy, and then two weeks in WDW. As our luck would have it, at the END of that trip, literally the day we were to fly back home, a blizzard hit New England and we ended up stuck in Disney for 4 more days before we could get home. We had already used all 10 days admission on our 10 day passes, but the passes were still valid as we still had a couple of admissions left on the water parks and more. When we did the math of upgrading to annual passes versus buying a new 4 day pass, it was a no brainer.

As a result? We went back to WDW and Vero Beach in the summer, and then did a long weekend in October for our youngest's birthday. Disney got a lot more money ultimately out of us because of that AP.

We are definitely the types of people who will likely squeeze in a trip if we have an AP since "the parks are already paid for." ;-)

 

[Sandisw]

I have 60 points at BWV and my last 2 trips were 6 night trips 11 months apart. I paid $550 per AP. Day tix on those trips would have been over $1000.

Even with current pricing, a renewal is $600 ish and a 7 day hopper for my next trip runs $550ish on www.*****************.com So, it's not impossible for an AP which includes photopass downloads and other perks to make sense even if only getting 1 use out of it.

Now, maybe you only need to buy for 1 family member in that case, but also sometimes you don't know your long term plan and spending an extra $50 per person in case you can swing a 2nd trip etc is worth the risk for some. A last minute weekend on cash or rented points can suddenly become possible. My daughter and I took a 3 day/2 night trip once because we scored $49 flights and MM tix with just a small points transfer to stay @ SSR.

ETA: My direct vs resale purchase "upcharge" was around $3000 (2017) and I'm already about even on my entire DVC purchase when comparing to what cash trips with a discount would have cost.

I had to edit your post vs delete because you did not post a link to a business that is in the boards filter. It is always best to do that because things do get added

 

[4luv2cdisney]

I had to edit your post vs delete because you did not post a link to a business that is in the boards filter. It is always best to do that because things do get added

Oh wow!

No problem. Sorry!

 

[havoc315]

I have 60 points at BWV and my last 2 trips were 6 night trips 11 months apart. I paid $550 per AP. Day tix on those trips would have been over $1000.

Even with current pricing, a renewal is $600 ish and a 7 day hopper for my next trip runs $550ish on www.*****************.com So, it's not impossible for an AP which includes photopass downloads and other perks to make sense even if only getting 1 use out of it.

Now, maybe you only need to buy for 1 family member in that case, but also sometimes you don't know your long term plan and spending an extra $50 per person in case you can swing a 2nd trip etc is worth the risk for some. A last minute weekend on cash or rented points can suddenly become possible. My daughter and I took a 3 day/2 night trip once because we scored $49 flights and MM tix with just a small points transfer to stay @ SSR.

ETA: My direct vs resale purchase "upcharge" was around $3000 (2017) and I'm already about even on my entire DVC purchase when comparing to what cash trips with a discount would have cost.

As I said, if you're taking multiple trips per year, it's worth it. If you are doing 1 or less trips per year, useless.
For example: 6 days in 2020.
None in 2021
2 5 day trips in 2022
None in 2023
1 7 day trip in 2024

Current pricing -- initial platinum pass is $1,000, renewal is $800. So for 5 years: $4200 per person
Just buying park hopper tickets:
2020 -- 6 day park hopper: $610
2022 -- 2 sets of 5 day park hoppers (based on current pricing) -- About 1180
2024 -- 7 day park hopper -- About $630
Total for the 4 trips over 5 years: $2420

So not even close -- over 5 years -- AP was almost $2000 more per person than just buying tickets for each trip. Even if you threw in short trips in 2021 and 2023... Say 2 3-day trips those years: That would be $900.
So even with 6 trips over 5 years.... APs are still $1300 more than just buying tickets as you go.

So yes, if you are doing multiple trips per year.. then the AP can be a nice savings. But no, if you're mostly doing 1 trip with an occasional 2nd trip, AP is still a big $$$ loser.

 

[havoc315]

It is definitely a nice perk but it does not meet everyone’s needs. As you said, you have to be strategic in staggering trips but families of 4 can make it pay for itself in a very short time even with one yesrly trip,

Not to mention the dining and shopping discounts and memory makers Now, you can get that with buying one regularly priced AP for the family too.

I bought my DDs boyfriend a 6 day ticket discounted and it cost me close to $500. But my DD got an AP...she is now an owner with me...for $719 plus tax.

You can get most of the same discounts on dining and shopping with DVC, without owning an AP.

If you're going off-peak, you can get a Gold Pass for $740 and renewing for $630. 8 night, off season, park hopper is $600. So the Goldpass isn't saving anything even compared to a single 8 night trip.
Now, if you want holiday period.. Platinum is $900, $800 renewal. 8 day regular parkhopper $677 ---

So really, I can't find any realistic scenario where single yearly trips could make APs worthwhile. Even in your comparison, the AP cost $200 more than the 6-day ticket.

 

[Lorana]

As I said, if you're taking multiple trips per year, it's worth it. If you are doing 1 or less trips per year, useless.
For example: 6 days in 2020.
None in 2021
2 5 day trips in 2022
None in 2023
1 7 day trip in 2024

Current pricing -- initial platinum pass is $1,000, renewal is $800. So for 5 years: $4200 per person
Just buying park hopper tickets:
2020 -- 6 day park hopper: $610
2022 -- 2 sets of 5 day park hoppers (based on current pricing) -- About 1180
2024 -- 7 day park hopper -- About $630
Total for the 4 trips over 5 years: $2420

So not even close -- over 5 years -- AP was almost $2000 more per person than just buying tickets for each trip. Even if you threw in short trips in 2021 and 2023... Say 2 3-day trips those years: That would be $900.
So even with 6 trips over 5 years.... APs are still $1300 more than just buying tickets as you go.

So yes, if you are doing multiple trips per year.. then the AP can be a nice savings. But no, if you're mostly doing 1 trip with an occasional 2nd trip, AP is still a big $$$ loser.

You can get most of the same discounts on dining and shopping with DVC, without owning an AP.

If you're going off-peak, you can get a Gold Pass for $740 and renewing for $630. 8 night, off season, park hopper is $600. So the Goldpass isn't saving anything even compared to a single 8 night trip.
Now, if you want holiday period.. Platinum is $900, $800 renewal. 8 day regular parkhopper $677 ---

So really, I can't find any realistic scenario where single yearly trips could make APs worthwhile. Even in your comparison, the AP cost $200 more than the 6-day ticket.

You're assuming short trips, though. Certainly you are right that if someone is only taking a 6-day trip once per year, the AP likely isn't worth it*.
Unless, of course, you want Memory Maker: Given that Memory Maker alone is $169 in advance, the gold pass even for a 6-day visit makes up the difference in cost between a Gold AP and 6 Day Park Hopper, and then you get the additional discounts.

If someone were to go more than 10 days at a time, the Gold Pass at $765.74 can represent a savings. The Gold Pass blackout dates are only over Easter and Christmas/New Years periods, so if you aren't traveling in the periods around those holidays, the Gold Pass is a great deal for Blue Card holders.

*it may be worth getting at least one for the additional dining and shopping discounts, depending on your spending habits at Disney, and the free Memory Maker access, if you value Park photographer photos and magic shots.