Charge for FP? Please say it aint so!

[Liljo22]

I certainly would not dispute what you are saying, especially since I have not been to the Disney parks in a few years, but it seems to go against the experiences of many. The TPAS forum (and others) seems to exist primarily for people desperately trying to get FP+ and ADRs or bemoaning the fact they could not get what they wanted.

That's because everyone that is bemoaning is trying to book ADRs and FP+ right as they open when hundreds of others are trying to get the same ones. When you get closer to the visit date, plans are changing and everything is opening up without everyone trying to grab them at once.

 

[twolittletinkerbells]

Except for the fact that other than Character meals, you can pretty much book most restaurants the day before.

Based off your posts, I am not sure you know how Disney works. My Disney trips are all very last minute and usually during the week after Christmas. I can get pretty much get most of my FP+ and still get good dining reservations a day or two before I go during the busiest week of the year.

Annual pass holder and my experience is that is not a true statement. SOME restaurants and then you are at the mercy of times available. But there are a LOT of popular places it’s hard to get day of especially for larger party’s

 

[mrcase77]

Universal's model provides unlimited rides for deluxe hotel guests while guests at other resorts, day guests and even pass holders (before 4pm) must pay extra for any sort of Express/Fastpass service. Do you really think that would translate well to Walt Disney World? Guests staying at the Poly, Grand Floridian, Beach Club and other deluxes get all-you-can-eat ride access while others are asked to pay more or use Standby exclusively?

(I wonder if Universal actually thinks that model is in their best interest or if they're held to it by a legacy contract with Loews. Curious that the newer resorts do not provide the free Express Pass.)

Nevertheless, Disney doesn't force you to "plan your day down to the minute." At worst, it's three attractions chosen in 60 minute time blocks. If you don't want to plan every day of your trip 60 days in advance...simply don't do it. Personally I'd probably pick one day for Animal Kingdom to lock in a Pandora ride and another for Mine Train. But other than that, guests could secure their FPs days or hours in advance and still have access to nearly all attractions.

Looking at the WDW wait times vs Universal wait times in the touring plans app for today, it totally seems like that model is in Universal's interest. They don't have the charm of Disney, but they're able to argue that their guests are able to ride more rides with less stress at a time when the Disney parks (it sounds like) are becoming increasingly gridlocked. And by the way, they've got a 3rd park coming and a relationship with Nintendo who has 30 years worth of IP to pull from.

 

[Liljo22]

Disney Values are not even vaguely in the same ballpark as a high end hotel. They are equivalent to the Rosen Pointe (from my list above) but with a lot of themeing.
They absolutely are. Just with a bunch of themeing. Take the giant sports gear away from All-Star Sports and it is just a higher end (that is not a Motel 6 or Days Inn) I-4 motel.

I guess we will have to disagree then. Even the All-Stars are above most of the hotels you mentioned in terms of amenities and service. Down right scary to read the reviews on the hotels you listed.

"The room itself was absolutely disgusting. It smelled of mildew and trash. The carpets were dirty, along with the bed. A miniature refrigerator was set top a chair on the far side of the room with an extension cord being plugged into across the room. I left immediately to go to the front desk to be checked out. The front desk individual told me I still had to pay for the 6 minute stay. After a conversation with her manager, she released me from the rooms I purchased. Myself, and my associates were disgusted with the price gouging and overall conditions of the room."

"Too much to complain about. The only decent staff is the maid service and maintenance. Very run down hotel with lots of issues. I would NOT recommend. Save your money and go elsewhere. No bugs or roaches like others said so that issue must have been resolved. A place to lay your head. That is it.. Never again. Yuck!"

"Price is low but for good reason. Location is close to Disney parks which is the best thing about this hotel. You don’t feel safe at this location but we had no issues for the three nights we were there. Room was large but definitely needs to be updated as carpets and bathroom is a bit run down."

 

[Scifidiner]

I get your point I just don't see it that way. My in-laws live 20 minutes from the gates and 10 minutes from UO. We decide the day before if we are going to go to a park and buy our tickets and book FP+ and ADRs during Christmas Break. We get to do everything we want with no problem and have a great time. Your point is that this is not possible.

Ok, so you can show up next week and get FPs for flight of passage, 7DMT and N'avi river, as well as BOG, Cinderella's RT, and California grill. Sure, and to accomplish this what would you have to do?

 

[Liljo22]

Ok, so you can show up next week and get FPs for flight of passage, 7DMT and N'avi river, as well as BOG, Cinderella's RT, and California grill. Sure, and to accomplish this what would you have to do?

Our last trip to MK, I got 7DMT for 4 the day off as one of our extras. I have also booked CRT less than a week before my MK date. You act like if you don't overplan you will have a terrible time. All I am saying is you do not need to be up at 7am on day 60 or at 180 and still have just as good of a trip as those that did. You can still "wing it" right before going and get most of what you want.

 

[Princess_Lisa]

I guess we will have to disagree then. Even the All-Stars are above most of the hotels you mentioned in terms of amenities and service. Down right scary to read the reviews on the hotels you listed.

"The room itself was absolutely disgusting. It smelled of mildew and trash. The carpets were dirty, along with the bed. A miniature refrigerator was set top a chair on the far side of the room with an extension cord being plugged into across the room. I left immediately to go to the front desk to be checked out. The front desk individual told me I still had to pay for the 6 minute stay. After a conversation with her manager, she released me from the rooms I purchased. Myself, and my associates were disgusted with the price gouging and overall conditions of the room."

"Too much to complain about. The only decent staff is the maid service and maintenance. Very run down hotel with lots of issues. I would NOT recommend. Save your money and go elsewhere. No bugs or roaches like others said so that issue must have been resolved. A place to lay your head. That is it.. Never again. Yuck!"

"Price is low but for good reason. Location is close to Disney parks which is the best thing about this hotel. You don’t feel safe at this location but we had no issues for the three nights we were there. Room was large but definitely needs to be updated as carpets and bathroom is a bit run down."

I have never had any of these issues at the places I listed (FWIW, I only stay in the tower part of the Ramada, so I can't speak for the motel in back). I see negative reviews of every hotel/motel no matter how nice. I've learned to take them with a grain of salt.

#1

Stayed here only because I had to as part of a group for a sports tournament. This is not a hotel. This is an old motel that decorated the outside to appeal to families. The rooms are small, dirty, and outdated with the only window placed against the outer walkway so you can't open the drapes but that's almost ok since ours were broken anyway. They lacked basic amenities and had overpriced bad food at the food court. I would not recommend staying here when there are so many other options that are reasonably priced. All I wanted was a clean room and shower to stay in and was disappointed.

I wouldn't stay here for free.
Came here for my boys birthday. I knew I wasn't getting the bells and whistles but figured we would be at the parks all day, so all we need is a bed.
Well, I couldn't tell we were even staying at a Disney hotel. Staff was rude, room was dirty and stained, beds were super uncomfortable, the sink in room smelled of vomit, and someone STOLE MONEY from my husbands drawer. They did credit us the money back, but they said they would investigate- no call.
Either I will stay off resort next time or go to another hotel. This one is crap.

I stayed one week here with my 8 yr old daughter. It was gross. The bathroom was very small. There was something sticky on the ground in two parts of the rug, despite the cleaning service coming every day. There was something disgusting on the light switch I had to clean off. I was itchy the entire time..by the last day my entire face was blotchy red and very itchy. I believe it as an allergic reaction to the detergent for the sheets. The water coming out of the sink smelt very bad and tasted disgusting. If I come back to Disney, I will spend the money on the nicer hotel. Definitely worth staying at Disney for the fastpass, we only stood on 4 lines throughout our stay. Also worth it for dining plan.

#2

This is gross.....

For starters, the buildings are very hard to find and difficult to navigate. The elevator is also concealed and not easy to find, so you are kinda forced to take the stairs.

When we get to our rooms, everything is fine, until you turn on the lights. BUGS EVERYWHERE. I understand Florida and humid weather but they're even in beds! This is unacceptable, and you should save your hard earned money and spend your time at Disney.... Anywhere else but here.

For a Disney resort, even for a value Disney resort, this place is like walking into a rent by the hour motel. I get that the room was 80's themed, but that shouldn't mean that everything has to be dated. The shower experience was the worst! The toilet is in the shower room and there is no shower floor, only a drain in the middle of the room for the water to run down. So, if you have to use the bathroom after someone had taken a shower, your feet will be soaked. The room itself, was filthy. The rugs had stains all over them, there was a layer of dust over everything, and on my last day I dropped an earring which rolled under the bed, took my flashlight out to find it and it was DISGUSTING!! An inch of dust, old candy, candy wrappers, dead bugs!! THIS is what we were sleeping above for a week? Also, we left a note for our housekeeper to leave a few extra bottles of shampoo since we forgot ours at home, it took her three days to do this. By the time she gave us extra, we had already bought a bottle down at Disney Springs. I know I'm not the only one saying this, but Disney used to have such a high standard for everything, they have since lowered their standard while raising their prices, instead. It's a shame.

#1 is from Yelp Reviews of All-Star Sports and #2 is for Pop Century. This is why I don't put too much weight in reviews anymore. I would never be able to stay anywhere.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/disneys-all-star-sports-resort-orlando?sort_by=rating_asc
https://www.yelp.com/biz/disneys-pop-century-resort-kissimmee?sort_by=rating_asc

 

[tjkraz]

I think you're missing our point. I can go to US today with an express pass and not worry about ANY FPs, at the most I'll have to think a little ahead that day and make dining reservations. There is no restaurant in US that I have to make reservations for 60 days in advance. Again, I can show up to Universal and experience all they have to offer with little or no planning. The same cannot be said for WDW. This is not an indictment of WDW, it is what it is. Like it or not in order to do all you want at WDW you really need to start planning 60 days out, AND EVEN THEN you may not get to do everything you want to do (BOG). This does not mean I prefer US over WDW, it's just the reality of the situation.

Here's the rub: Universal Express only works BECAUSE of the limited availability. Hard Rock + Portofino Bay + Royal Pacific = about 2400 rooms. Walt Disney World has more than 10x that number. Access to all WDW hotel guests means the occupants of 30,000+ hotel rooms have unlimited rights to the FP queues for Mine Train, Pandora, Toy Story mania, etc. Disney also has more attractions, but I think it's safe to assume that a disproportionate number of people would gravitate toward the newest attractions. Visualize the largest Express Pass line you've seen for Gringotts or Forbidden Journey and multiply by 10 for the volume Flight of Passage could draw on any given day.

Or, perhaps closer to the Universal model, only give unlimited ride rights to Disney Deluxe resort guests and make the rest pay for it. Anecdotally, I'll say that such a move would not be warmly received.

The Universal model simply cannot be transplanted to WDW without excessive pain points. So pick your poison: Universal with Express or Disney with FP+. They simply aren't interchangeable. As stated in my first post, with FP+ it's pretty easy to advance plan a couple days of a vacation to lock in things like 7DMT and Pandora, while scheduling other park visits on the fly. If you want greater freedom, by all means enjoy your day at Universal Florida.

 

[tjkraz]

Looking at the WDW wait times vs Universal wait times in the touring plans app for today, it totally seems like that model is in Universal's interest. They don't have the charm of Disney, but they're able to argue that their guests are able to ride more rides with less stress at a time when the Disney parks (it sounds like) are becoming increasingly gridlocked. And by the way, they've got a 3rd park coming and a relationship with Nintendo who has 30 years worth of IP to pull from.

I'm not criticizing Universal but (IMO) it doesn't take an MBA spot signs of the underlying agreements. The nightly hotel rate is often less than what US would charge for Express Passes alone for a family of 4. Universal considers Sapphire Falls to be the same class as Royal Pacific, but only RP guests receive the free Express. Seems very likely that they're contractually obligated to provide Express to guests at the 3 older resorts. I suspect USF would like nothing better than to be able to charge the $99 per person to everyone who wants that access. Let Loews worry about filling their hotel rooms.

 

[Scifidiner]

Our last trip to MK, I got 7DMT for 4 the day off as one of our extras. I have also booked CRT less than a week before my MK date. You act like if you don't overplan you will have a terrible time. All I am saying is you do not need to be up at 7am on day 60 or at 180 and still have just as good of a trip as those that did. You can still "wing it" right before going and get most of what you want.

My point is what did you have to do to get the reservations? You have to actually visit an app/website and make each individual reservation. Sometimes repeatedly. If I went to WDW next week and wanted to do all those "on my above mentioned" list I doubt very seriously I'd get to do everything I wanted. If I go to US I just show up, I may have to wait a little (dining) but I still get to do everything I want to do, not "most of what I want".

The Universal model simply cannot be transplanted to WDW without excessive pain points. So pick your poison: Universal with Express or Disney with FP+. They simply aren't interchangeable. As stated in my first post, with FP+ it's pretty easy to advance plan a couple days of a vacation to lock in things like 7DMT and Pandora, while scheduling other park visits on the fly. If you want greater freedom, by all means enjoy your day at Universal Florida.

We went to WDW in December and could not get a FP reservation for N'avi river, and I kept going to MyDisney daily. If you show up and try to get reservations "on the fly" sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You don't get to do everything you want, at US you do. We went to US after WDW and did everything we wanted. I understand the difference between WDW and US logistically. The bottom line is I don't care, I'm on vacation.

 

[tlmadden73]

What I fear is some sort of "combo" system of paid/unpaid (sorta like you are seeing with the Club Level fast passes) that basically fills up the available fast pass spots .. making the system loaded (and day-of fast passes harder and harder to come by).

For example:
What if they just expanded the Club Level perks to all Deluxe guests? Basically allowing any deluxe guest to "buy" 3 additional fast passes they can schedule at 90 days?
OR
What if everyone got 3 free, that you could schedule as normal, but ALL Deluxe resort guests got a free 4th Fast pass to use and schedule at 90 days out (similar to the Club Level perk).
OR
What if everyone got 3 free, that you could schedule out, but you can upgrade to a "premium" fast pass for your trip where you don't bother with scheduling and your 3 fast passes become "anywhere" "anytime" fast passes? If you want to get in the Fast Pass line for SDMT at 2 in the afternoon and ride it twice more that day, you can. (I would think that this would be hugely popular considering the biggest complaint about the FP+ system is having to schedule things 30-60 days in advance.

My guess is that rather than mess with the FP system, they will just continue to monetize "skipping the line" via events. I would not be surprised if we see a "Toy Story Early Morning Magic" at DHS in the next with a QS breakfast (at the new restaurant) and unlimited rides at all three Toy Story attractions for $80/person or something like that. And maybe something like that for SWGE as well.

 

[Princess_Lisa]

What if everyone got 3 free, that you could schedule out, but you can upgrade to a "premium" fast pass for your trip where you don't bother with scheduling and your 3 fast passes become "anywhere" "anytime" fast passes? If you want to get in the Fast Pass line for SDMT at 2 in the afternoon and ride it twice more that day, you can. (I would think that this would be hugely popular considering the biggest complaint about the FP+ system is having to schedule things 30-60 days in advance.

That would sell like hotcakes.

My guess is that rather than mess with the FP system, they will just continue to monetize "skipping the line" via events. I would not be surprised if we see a "Toy Story Early Morning Magic" at DHS in the next with a QS breakfast (at the new restaurant) and unlimited rides at all three Toy Story attractions for $80/person or something like that. And maybe something like that for SWGE as well.

I really hope they do this. If it follows MK's model and pricing, I would grab a reservation. I wonder how fast EMM reservations for SWGE would go?

 

[mrcase77]

I'm not criticizing Universal but (IMO) it doesn't take an MBA spot signs of the underlying agreements. The nightly hotel rate is often less than what US would charge for Express Passes alone for a family of 4. Universal considers Sapphire Falls to be the same class as Royal Pacific, but only RP guests receive the free Express. Seems very likely that they're contractually obligated to provide Express to guests at the 3 older resorts. I suspect USF would like nothing better than to be able to charge the $99 per person to everyone who wants that access. Let Loews worry about filling their hotel rooms.

My understanding is they do sell fastpasses to individuals who didn't stay in those 3 hotels until they run out of fastpasses they have enough throughput to provide, and then they stop selling them. (which is why their passpasses work as expected and Disney's sometimes don't). Because they only made promises to the people staying in those 3 hotels, they can control how many of those fastpasses they have in the park on any given day.

Disney, on the other hand, promised every single person who walks through the gate their 3 fast passes minimum (now many how many people walk through that gate and no matter how few people they have on staff or how few rides they have up and running). That gives them poor control over how many fast passes are out there. Then to add insult to injury, they started selling even more of them. If they're having 30 minute wait times, it would appear that system is sort of on the brink of collapsing under its own weight.

I'm not an MBA, but I am a Software Engineer. I understand throughput. Universal gave themselves more of a relief valve by doing it the way they've done it. It looks to me like Disney has painted themselves into a corner and they can't change it without people throwing a massive hissy fit now. The unfortunate truth is that if everyone has too many fast passes, then nobody really has a fast pass...and then gridlock. And if nobody can ride the rides....well...there's another park across town that has rides people can actually ride. That's a problem if you're Disney eventually. Or at least you would think.

 

[tjkraz]

Universal gave themselves more of a relief valve by doing it the way they've done it.

I guess that's one way to look at it. Operationally, they could have also stopped selling the separate Express passes--or sold fewer of them--and instead bundled the passes with both of their "Preferred" class resorts: Royal Pacific and Sapphire Falls. But that obviously didn't happen.

 

[tjkraz]

We went to WDW in December and could not get a FP reservation for N'avi river, and I kept going to MyDisney daily. If you show up and try to get reservations "on the fly" sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You don't get to do everything you want, at US you do.

As stated in my first post, with FP+ it's pretty easy to advance plan a couple days of a vacation to lock in things like 7DMT and Pandora, while scheduling other park visits on the fly.

We went to US after WDW and did everything we wanted. I understand the difference between WDW and US logistically. The bottom line is I don't care, I'm on vacation.

If you want greater freedom, by all means enjoy your day at Universal Florida.

 

[mrcase77]

I guess that's one way to look at it. Operationally, they could have also stopped selling the separate Express passes--or sold fewer of them--and instead bundled the passes with both of their "Preferred" class resorts: Royal Pacific and Sapphire Falls. But that obviously didn't happen.

Exactly. Universal is doing both, which was smart imo. They've ensured the most cost effective way to get those passes it to stay in those 3 hotels and they've ensured that those passes hold their value by making sure they actually work by controlling just how big that supply is.

Saphire Falls doesn't need the fast passes. People want to stay there because it's the new shiny. If they let anyone who is in any of the hotels have, it would drive up the hotel price (when they're clearly trying to make them cheaper than Disney's hotels) and they might oversell the fast passes (see also Disney).

 

[tjkraz]

Exactly. Universal is doing both, which was smart imo. They've ensured the most cost effective way to get those passes it to stay in those 3 hotels and they've ensured that those passes hold their value by making sure they actually work by controlling just how big that supply is.

Saphire Falls doesn't need the fast passes. People want to stay there because it's the new shiny. If they let anyone who is in any of the hotels have, it would drive up the hotel price (when they're clearly trying to make them cheaper than Disney's hotels) and they might oversell the fast passes (see also Disney).

Businesses charge what they're capable of charging. The Universal hotels are priced where they need to be in order to attract guests. They've simply learned that a lower hotel rate + potential to sell $400 worth of Express passes is a better formula than a higher hotel rate with free Express Passes. We can certainly find faults in Disney's system but it provides a real value-added benefit to every single guest entering the park vs. the chosen 2400 families at USF + those willing to spend an extra $100 per person, per day.

The Express Pass is a double edged sword. I've been to Universal twice, both times staying at their hotels. But on a recurring basis we have accommodations (timeshare) and the existence of Express Pass is a HUGE part of what keeps us away. I'm not spending $400 PLUS tickets for our family to visit the park, nor am I taking the chance that I'm going to end up languishing at the tail end of their normal lines.

Meanwhile, I have few difficulties navigating the FastPass system. I know how our family vacations. It's no great chore to pick three attractions for our estimated daily arrival time. Adjustments are easily made when necessary. And when the 3 FPs are used up, a few taps on the smartphone adds more. It's not uncommon to redeem 8-10 FPs in a single day. And it's free.

To each their own.

 

[cbl1]

Magic Kingdom alone has about the same amount of rides (24-26 range) as Universal (both parks combined) and same amount of annual visitors (just over 20 million).

Each summer I see huge lines at Universal Studios well over an hour - very comparable to Disney. Of course if you stay on site you get unlimited fast pass, which does beat out fastpass+.

I think they both handle the crowds as well as possible but I would pick Disney before Universal if I didn't have the Universal unlimited fast pass.

Universal benefits some from having rides that were built to handle a larger crowd. Some of Magic Kingdom rides weren't built with the modern throughput required.

Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, and Epcot only suffer with long lines because they don't have enough eticket rides to accommodate the crowds. As the newer popular rides keep getting added to these 3 parks their wait times will even out more.

 

[Scifidiner]

nevermind......

 

[zebrastreyepz]

I've said it was coming for years. It won't surprise me at all. It's already started with being able to buy extra to book earlier with club level.