Covid And The Rest of Us

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I never learned a different language. I tried Spanish and that last has a quarter (really a few weeks) in school. I dropped because I was failing and so far behind. In college I had to take a langue so I took sign language. This was so much easier to me.

DS is taking German. He loves it and is really go at it. He is in his second year of it. He can't wait to go to Germany one year. He laughs at me when I try to pronounce something in German from his homework. It is really bad.

That's really beautiful though that you took sign language. Barriers don't just exist verbally

 

[ronandannette]

Totally off topic but your post reminded me that sometimes I used to suddenly fly into French (not remotely fluent) instead of a Japanese word/phrase while living in Japan. . Like the mind was playing well I am speaking a foreign language! The brain is one fascinating body part!

I hear you! I have no aptitude whatsoever for languages and only know English, my native tongue. When we travelled through France, Italy and Spain we did try to pick up enough rudimentary words and phrases to meet basic needs and be polite. Going from one country and language to the next in such quick succession, I rarely ever said the right words to the right people - I might as well have just spoke English the whole time.

 

[ronandannette]

...I don’t think they have specifically planned who will get the vaccines first (although it will likely be health care workers, aged care residents and the elderly) as it will depend on whether there are any outbreaks and whether each vaccine proves to work better in particular groups. As I am young and not an essential worker, it will probably be awhile before I get my vaccine. The vaccines will likely be done through GPs, vaccination clinics (e.g. in pharmacies), in aged care homes and in large workplaces, similar to how the flu vaccine is administered. The vaccine will be 100% free.

We tend to have a good vaccination rate (for childhood vaccines at least), so hopefully people will be happy to have the jab. There was talk of introducing measures like a “no jab no play” policy to prevent kids from going to daycare unvaccinated or cutting off government benefits, but I don’t think there are any such plans at the moment. I believe they will require proof of vaccination to enter the country without quarantine and I think they are also looking at how to assist Australians overseas to get the vaccine before returning.

It's "easier" for us in areas where the risk of death has so obviously revealed itself to be amongst the elderly in care facilities. In Canada, they will absolutely be front-of-the-line, it's now just a matter of the logistics of delivery.

 

[ronandannette]

I just heard a press conference given by Dr. Teresa Tam, Canada's Chief Medical Officer, regarding our vaccination program. She just said that due to the necessity of keeping the BioNTech (Pfizer) vaccine so cold, it can only be given at centralized distribution facilities. This means our most vulnerable seniors in care homes that are not easily mobile will NOT get the first doses. I think we need to try a little harder on this.

ETA: Initially there will be 14 sites nation-wide that are already in preparation but their locations have not yet been disclosed.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I just heard a press conference given by Dr. Teresa Tam, Canada's Chief Officer of Health, regarding our vaccination program. She just said that due to the necessity of keeping the BioNTech vaccine so cold, it can only be given at centralized distribution facilities. This means our most vulnerable seniors in care homes that are not easily mobile will NOT get the first doses. I think we need to try a little harder on this.

So this seems to be very different than what the plan has been for here.

I haven't heard about it from my state but I assume it's the same as the state next to me. The state next to me my metro and the other large metro in the state will get Pfizer that has the colder temps. Mid-size cities would get Moderna that doesn't have quite as an issue with the temps.

Walgreens and CVS Pharmacy workers would vaccinate people at the long-term care facilities using Pfizer's vaccine (and Moderna in places that will be getting them). So is the difference logistics, geographical, administrative, etc?

 

[piglet1979]

Just a heads for everyone with the vaccine. We have a doctor on our board at work. He spoke at our meeting last week. He told us to keep track of which vaccine you get. You will need to get the same one for the second dose. You do not want to get say Pfizer for the first dose and then Maderna for the second. This is just something that I would have not thought about.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Just a heads for everyone with the vaccine. We have a doctor on our board at work. He spoke at our meeting last week. He told us to keep track of which vaccine you get. You will need to get the same one for the second dose. You do not want to get say Pfizer for the first dose and then Maderna for the second. This is just something that I would have not thought about.

I would have thought that was obvious. In The UK they are giving appointment cards. I would expect Ireland to do the same. Also I doubt that it will be choice for which one. In UK and Ireland we don't request a particular brand or type of drug, so I can't see that being an issue here.

 

[ronandannette]

Just a heads for everyone with the vaccine. We have a doctor on our board at work. He spoke at our meeting last week. He told us to keep track of which vaccine you get. You will need to get the same one for the second dose. You do not want to get say Pfizer for the first dose and then Maderna for the second. This is just something that I would have not thought about.

One would hope that "they" are keeping track of who is getting what so there are no errors of this kind. It would surprise me if people are able to just get the shots willy-nilly, as in show up randomly for a second dose at a different facility or without proof of what was previously received.

 

[piglet1979]

One would hope that "they" are keeping track of who is getting what so there are no errors of this kind. It would surprise me if people are able to just get the shots willy-nilly, as in show up randomly for a second dose at a different facility or without proof of what was previously received.

I agree. It never occurred to me that I should ask to make sure. I am thinking the as long as you go to the same place you would be fine. When my kids got H1N1 when they were little I took them to a school that was doing a clinic. They had to get 2 shots and I went to 2 different clinics and never asked. I am not sure if there were different companied with that one though.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just a heads for everyone with the vaccine. We have a doctor on our board at work. He spoke at our meeting last week. He told us to keep track of which vaccine you get. You will need to get the same one for the second dose. You do not want to get say Pfizer for the first dose and then Maderna for the second. This is just something that I would have not thought about.

Here in the states it's been said CDC will get cards for the purpose and for reminding people to get their additional dosage. My state said they would be giving cards too to remind for the second dose(I don't know now if they will default to CDC or still do their own in addition) and both my state and the one next to me mentioned they had registries they've used for vaccines though what exact information is in that I'm not sure.

While Pfizer and Moderna both function similarly yes you wouldn't want to mix them up, they haven't been studied as such either.

It's probably something though many people aren't used to having to think about

 

[Karin1984]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we had another press conference in NL. We are not doing well. Last week versus the week before:
Hospitalizations: 1.229 versus 1.007 (+22%)
ICU: 179 versus 183 (-2%)
Deaths: 338 versus 406 (-17%) We are nearing the 10K mark.
Tests: 320K versus 259K (+23%)
Positives: 37K versus 29K (+29%)
% positives 11.6% versus 11% (+0,6%)
R: 1 versus 1.04 (-0,04)


So the Netherlands and Vaccines... Pfff, that's a thing. While other countries are building facilities, we don't. The reason? We have a pretty good system for the yearly flu shots, the other countries apparently don't have this. At least that was the story a few days ago. Now they do say they will start building 30 locations for medical personnel to get their shots.
- We will start with medical personnel, we have 450K Pfizer vaccines, and 625K personnel, so not everyone will get vaccinated the first time. We are starting with them, as with the -70 degrees storage requirements with Pfizer, that makes it logisitcally complicated to start with the nursing homes. People in nursing homes will get Moderna.
- Initially we were supposed to get 1 million vaccines late December, now it's going to be January with only a 0.5 million.


- My province (county if you will) is the number 1 hotspot in the country! Not the city I live in, some other smaller communities are worse offenders.
- No changes to how many guests you can have in your home for Christmas, still at 3 per day. (Our crown princess is celebrating her 17th birthday this entire week, with 3 friends a day max to celebrate)
- Restaurants still want to open asap and still fighting to get this arranged again in a safe way. Apparently there is a report on restaurants and infections, and probably it would be safer to reopen them, as now everyone went to visit each other at their homes, longer visits, closer together, more alcohol etc. so home infections went up!
- Extra infections probably due to the black Friday sales. Some shopping areas got so busy.
- In January there will be tests in theaters to see how these businesses can reopen again. Also tests for team sports for adults.

We might get extra measures on the 22nd, really depends on the next weeks.

 

[piglet1979]

Here in the states it's been said CDC will get cards for the purpose and for reminding people to get their additional dosage. My state said they would be giving cards too to remind for the second dose(I don't know now if they will default to CDC or still do their own in addition) and both my state and the one next to me mentioned they had registries they've used for vaccines though what exact information is in that I'm not sure.

While Pfizer and Moderna both function similarly yes you wouldn't want to mix them up, they haven't been studied as such either.

It's probably something though many people aren't used to having to think about

I am in the States as well. I am in Ohio. I haven't heard about the cards. That is great to help keep it all together.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we had another press conference in NL. We are not doing well. Last week versus the week before:
Hospitalizations: 1.229 versus 1.007 (+22%)
ICU: 179 versus 183 (-2%)
Deaths: 338 versus 406 (-17%) We are nearing the 10K mark.
Tests: 320K versus 259K (+23%)
Positives: 37K versus 29K (+29%)
% positives 11.6% versus 11% (+0,6%)
R: 1 versus 1.04 (-0,04)


So the Netherlands and Vaccines... Pfff, that's a thing. While other countries are building facilities, we don't. The reason? We have a pretty good system for the yearly flu shots, the other countries apparently don't have this. At least that was the story a few days ago. Now they do say they will start building 30 locations for medical personnel to get their shots.
- We will start with medical personnel, we have 450K Pfizer vaccines, and 625K personnel, so not everyone will get vaccinated the first time. We are starting with them, as with the -70 degrees storage requirements with Pfizer, that makes it logisitcally complicated to start with the nursing homes. People in nursing homes will get Moderna.
- Initially we were supposed to get 1 million vaccines late December, now it's going to be January with only a 0.5 million.


- My province (county if you will) is the number 1 hotspot in the country! Not the city I live in, some other smaller communities are worse offenders.
- No changes to how many guests you can have in your home for Christmas, still at 3 per day. (Our crown princess is celebrating her 17th birthday this entire week, with 3 friends a day max to celebrate)
- Restaurants still want to open asap and still fighting to get this arranged again in a safe way. Apparently there is a report on restaurants and infections, and probably it would be safer to reopen them, as now everyone went to visit each other at their homes, longer visits, closer together, more alcohol etc. so home infections went up!
- Extra infections probably due to the black Friday sales. Some shopping areas got so busy.
- In January there will be tests in theaters to see how these businesses can reopen again. Also tests for team sports for adults.

We might get extra measures on the 22nd, really depends on the next weeks.

That is a lot to unpack there! Sorry to hear about the numbers worsening

 

[ronandannette]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we had another press conference in NL. We are not doing well...

- My province (county if you will) is the number 1 hotspot in the country! Not the city I live in, some other smaller communities are worse offenders.
- No changes to how many guests you can have in your home for Christmas, still at 3 per day. (Our crown princess is celebrating her 17th birthday this entire week, with 3 friends a day max to celebrate)
- Restaurants still want to open asap and still fighting to get this arranged again in a safe way. Apparently there is a report on restaurants and infections, and probably it would be safer to reopen them, as now everyone went to visit each other at their homes, longer visits, closer together, more alcohol etc. so home infections went up!
- Extra infections probably due to the black Friday sales. Some shopping areas got so busy.
- In January there will be tests in theaters to see how these businesses can reopen again. Also tests for team sports for adults.

We might get extra measures on the 22nd, really depends on the next weeks.

How interesting, and in some ways, very discouraging. Here we have been completely prohibited from any in-home social visits - not one single person of any kind and no gatherings larger than 6 people outside in masks and fully distanced. On the other hand, restaurants are still open for dine-in but only with persons from your own household (seriously - ID is being checked by a lot of restaurants). Stores are still open with strict capacity limits.

Almost exactly the opposite approach as NL has taken but yet with the same unsatisfactory result. Other regions of Canada are currently engaging all the measures without much better success. What, if anything, can actually help us now?

 

[lanejudy]

Initially we were supposed to get 1 million vaccines late December, now it's going to be January with only a 0.5 million.

The reason for this is the other 1/2 mil will be reserved as the 2nd dose for those who received the first dose. So you will get the full 1mil doses, but in 2 batches and for the same 500K individuals. Sorry there's a delay in the expected timing, though.

Here in VT our health department just announced the state will get approx. 6K doses first round, with a similar number held in reserve as the 2nd dose; that's maybe a third of the initial phase population (healthcare workers and those living in senior care facilities). They do not have an option to only provide 1 dose and since this initial phase is pretty much a "captive audience" it will be fairly easy to ensure everyone gets both doses. How well that works with the general public remains to be seen. By then, maybe single-dose vaccine will be available (I think 2 or 3 pharmas are developing single-dose).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The reason for this is the other 1/2 mil will be reserved as the 2nd dose for those who received the first dose. So you will get the full 1mil doses, but in 2 batches and for the same 500K individuals. Sorry there's a delay in the expected timing, though.

Here in VT our health department just announced the state will get approx. 6K doses first round, with a similar number held in reserve as the 2nd dose; that's maybe a third of the initial phase population (healthcare workers and those living in senior care facilities). They do not have an option to only provide 1 dose and since this initial phase is pretty much a "captive audience" it will be fairly easy to ensure everyone gets both doses. How well that works with the general public remains to be seen. By then, maybe single-dose vaccine will be available (I think 2 or 3 pharmas are developing single-dose).

Held in reserve is something no one has actually talked about. I broached the subject on a different thread saying that our local news said to keep in my initial doses were only for half the people since the vaccines presently require 2 doses, as well as saying with healthcare workers and long-term care workers and residents it would be easier to track actually getting 2 doses.

I hadn't heard of a state outright saying they would hold off on depleting their supply versus reserving to ensure people were actually fully vaccinated. I hesitate to assume that they would hold off and reserve the supply to ensure both doses are given to the same person because it appears we're getting mixed messages in the news as to what should be done.

 

[Karin1984]

Almost exactly the opposite approach as NL has taken but yet with the same unsatisfactory result. Other regions of Canada are currently engaging all the measures without much better success. What, if anything, can actually help us now?

Hold on for as long as we can to make sure our health system doesn't crack under the pressure. That ICU is slowly going down is good.

Top is daily ICU cases. Bottom is how many ICU beds are occupied by a Covid-19 patient.
For hospitalizations the graphs are very similar.

As long as there is life, there is still hope.

 

[NFLDERS]

Yes, most definitely. I was listening in French, and typing in English. Lol. and oh

boy only after can you see how badly that can go, our/are.

IMHO you multi language task text good!

 

[lanejudy]

I hadn't heard of a state outright saying they would hold off on depleting their supply versus reserving to ensure people were actually fully vaccinated. I hesitate to assume that they would hold off and reserve the supply to ensure both doses are given to the same person because it appears we're getting mixed messages in the news as to what should be done.

I don't know, there does seem to be a lot of variable information out there. What I understood him to say just this morning (which he had also stated last week) is that my state won't actually receive the total number of doses ordered as the initial shipment because half will be held in reserve and shipped later. I did not understand it as the state is holding them back, but the 2nd half would physically ship later. The vaccines aren't interchangeable, so if someone who receives Pfizer's vaccine as a 1st dose can't take Moderna's vaccine as a 2nd dose.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't know, there does seem to be a lot of variable information out there. What I understood him to say just this morning (which he had also stated last week) is that my state won't actually receive the total number of doses ordered as the initial shipment because half will be held in reserve and shipped later. I did not understand it as the state is holding them back, but the 2nd half would physically ship later. The vaccines aren't interchangeable, so if someone who receives Pfizer's vaccine as a 1st dose can't take Moderna's vaccine as a 2nd dose.

So that's interesting about holding back the shipment itself. To my knowledge that hadn't been mentioned before. Just that the amount sent would be for X number of people when considering 2 doses.

Like the wording from my state, which is still assuming EUA is granted, was "Kansas’ 23,750 doses from Pfizer won’t cover the 40,000 people in the top priority group. Each person needs two doses, so only about 16,875 people in the state will get immunized. Missouri’s 50,000 will take care of about 25,000 people." Both of those numbers are from the first shipment and don't include the numbers mentioned for by the end of the month. But that wasn't official communication from either state saying that's what they will do either depleting the full supply they get and then circling back or if they will only vaccinate about 16,875 and 50,000 people respectively despite the wording saying "will get immunized".

There was a discussion on the other thread where Dr. Gottleib I guess was saying basically to deplete the shipment even with a small risk of a subsequent shipment with doses (that would give the first people their second dose) not making it in time, but another article mentioned experts saying it was critical people get the second dosage due to effectiveness (which would cast doubts on the depleting supply) but now Pfizer has come out discussing the effectiveness based on 1 dose. Seriously it's a bit like whiplash here!

This seems like something that could vary all over not only in the U.S. but also throughout the world how they will handle multiple doses. I'm actually intrigued now how different places will do this. One of my biggest concerns is consistent shipments that arrive in time for the second dose (21 days for Pfizer, 28 days for Moderna) and of course hearing about the U.S.'s issues with the amount they purchased from Pfizer is putting doubt on that, that's why your mention of holding doses in reserve would actually work out. The concern of people only getting 1 dose and unable to get the 2nd dose because there aren't any supplies available at that time wouldn't be there so long as the doses meant for the second shot stay specifically in reserve for the people who got it the first time.

Sorry..I know kinda rambling here hope I'm making sense


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On a random note apparently my state will have 5 to 6 distribution centers located throughout the state though locations of such have not been disclosed. I will automatically assume one will be in my area simply because we are right by the major airport in a very populated area with easy access to the main highway that feeds east to west of the state and we are a big rail and trucking hub but of course I can't confirm that.