Crowd Outlook

[BroadwayHermione5]

I love Disney but the price of our upcoming vacation is crazy. We could literally go to Europe for what we’re paying to spend 17 days in Orlando. I told DH the next time I pay this much for a vacation we are going overseas.

Land and sea is what we are finding is more bang for our buck! Also our SoCal trip last year was better in price compared to this year! Costco for the win on that one.

Do either of your places of employment have discount tickets? Its how we get a lot of our tickets including universal (orlando and hollywood), Sea World, Busch gardens, various separate ticketed events at parks and various other things.

 

[Brian Noble]

i am also curious if this is specifically a Florida problem or if it spans more of the country

Good question. We are planning an extended trip to a couple of Hawaiian islands starting in mid-June, and reservations are already tight. For example, Hā'ena parking spots are still selling out within a minute of being released each day, and the better dining reservations are already booked around sunsets.

 

[Jrb1979]

This is quoted from some one who is there this week.

"FWIW today's front desk onesheet here at All Star Music lists the resort at 83% of available capacity, with 263 available rooms. There are at least 4 other large school band groups here apart from the one I brought. The desk clerk said that Movies and Sports were "lighter" than Music this week because of the groups."

That seems low to me for a long weekend.

 

[RivShore]

This is quoted from some one who is there this week.

"FWIW today's front desk onesheet here at All Star Music lists the resort at 83% of available capacity, with 263 available rooms. There are at least 4 other large school band groups here apart from the one I brought. The desk clerk said that Movies and Sports were "lighter" than Music this week because of the groups."

That seems low to me for a long weekend.

It may seem low but without Disney's forecasted occupancy for that weekend, last years actual, and pre-covid actuals, it means...not much.

 

[Jrb1979]

It may seem low but without Disney's forecasted occupancy for that weekend, last years actual, and pre-covid actuals, it means...not much.

For perspective, in the year following 9/11 when WDW attendance plummeted, WDW hotel occupancy bottomed out at 76%, the lowest it's ever been for an entire year. A few years after the Great Recession of 2007-8, WDW hotel occupancy dropped to 79%.

 

[RivShore]

For perspective, in the year following 9/11 when WDW attendance plummeted, WDW hotel occupancy bottomed out at 76%, the lowest it's ever been for an entire year. A few years after the Great Recession of 2007-8, WDW hotel occupancy dropped to 79%.

If those numbers are right, they are amazing! Hotels shoot for somewhere around 80% or better so nearly hitting that during disastrous times speaks volumes to the power of the brand.

 

[Brian Noble]

Well, it helped that they closed sections of resorts during some of those times--I distinctly remember that large swaths of POR were taken offline right after 9/11. Those rooms would not count against those occupancy numbers.

But, yeah, the overall occupancy at WDW is bananas.

 

[glamdring269]

Europe is an interesting option to see brought up. We're a couple of adults and decided to head back to WDW/Universal this year. The price of this trip is astonishing. We were last here in 2019 and it just feels so much more expensive than when we visited back then. And that's before the inevitable Genie+ add on we will make, again something that is a little easier to deal with as just 2 adults with no kids.

So anyway with all of that said, the first thing I told my wife after agreeing to do this: You do realize we could basically be doing an amazing 2 week European vacation for this price, right? Or basically anywhere else in the world.

We love traveling so after having that discussion we basically agreed that as long as prices remain as they are then we will just opt for other destinations going forward. It's just not worth it when there are so many amazing places still out there for us to see.

 

[Upatnoon]

Europe is an interesting option to see brought up. We're a couple of adults and decided to head back to WDW/Universal this year. The price of this trip is astonishing. We were last here in 2019 and it just feels so much more expensive than when we visited back then. And that's before the inevitable Genie+ add on we will make, again something that is a little easier to deal with as just 2 adults with no kids.

So anyway with all of that said, the first thing I told my wife after agreeing to do this: You do realize we could basically be doing an amazing 2 week European vacation for this price, right? Or basically anywhere else in the world.

We love traveling so after having that discussion we basically agreed that as long as prices remain as they are then we will just opt for other destinations going forward. It's just not worth it when there are so many amazing places still out there for us to see.

No question there are vacations at many price points.

The cost of all travel has really escalated over the past few years. I've found that hotels that were $150 are now $250. Rental cars are $700 when they were $400.

I looked at the cost of a Europe trip and airfare for our family was $5,000 on the low end. And that is just getting there.

This is not to excuse Disney from contributing to all this vacation inflation. If travel slows down, everything will get less expensive eventually.

 

[PDXmouse]

No question there are vacations at many price points.

The cost of all travel has really escalated over the past few years. I've found that hotels that were $150 are now $250. Rental cars are $700 when they were $400.

I looked at the cost of a Europe trip and airfare for our family was $5,000 on the low end. And that is just getting there.

This is not to excuse Disney from contributing to all this vacation inflation. If travel slows down, everything will get less expensive eventually.

I doubt it will get significantly less expensive, and if so, only temporarily. If things are bad enough prices could at least stop increasing so fast. At least we can hope...

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I doubt it will get significantly less expensive, and if so, only temporarily. If things are bad enough prices could at least stop increasing so fast. At least we can hope...

That is typically what is seen, price increases slow, typically price doesn't drop. A slow down does give the working class time to "catch up" with raises until an equilibrium is reached again

 

[BrianL]

That is typically what is seen, price increases slow, typically price doesn't drop. A slow down does give the working class time to "catch up" with raises until an equilibrium is reached again

I don't even mind if they don't lower prices, I just want to see quality and service levels back up to where they used to be. It has been getting somewhat better, but there are still a lot of gaps. I don't mind paying premium prices for a truly premium experience.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't even mind if they don't lower prices, I just want to see quality and service levels back up to where they used to be. It has been getting somewhat better, but there are still a lot of gaps. I don't mind paying premium prices for a truly premium experience.

Email Bob, he will get right on that .

In all seriousness, I feel WDW has a long way to go still to get back to what they once were. It's pretty bad when I feel that the service I got Cedar Point last weekend was better than what WDW has been offering lately.

 

[BrianL]

Email Bob, he will get right on that .

In all seriousness, I feel WDW has a long way to go still to get back to what they once were. It's pretty bad when I feel that the service I got Cedar Point last weekend was better than what WDW has been offering lately.

Oh, it definitely still has a ways to go - but it has gotten significantly better too, at least since the COVID era. There are still services they need to bring back though.

 

[RivShore]

Well, it helped that they closed sections of resorts during some of those times--I distinctly remember that large swaths of POR were taken offline right after 9/11. Those rooms would not count against those occupancy numbers.

But, yeah, the overall occupancy at WDW is bananas.

You know, that had occurred to me late last night - that maybe large areas/hotels were just closed up during that time. If that's the case, occupancy with the closed units included was probably a lot lower - 50% or less, I would guess.

You are so right about overall WDW occupancy - any hotel would kill to have the 90%+ that WDW sees regularly.

I recently ran across a chart (that of course I can't find now) that combined two lodging data points - occupancy rates and avg nightly cost for cities across the US. The top 3 were (1) HI, (2) NYC, and (3) Orlando. The cost we pay is really all about supply and demand.

 

[J-Dog]

Here's a good reason why.

https://planneratheart.com/vacation-spots-besides-disney/

According to Time2Play, 92.6% of surveyed Disney World enthusiasts said they believe the cost of a Disney vacation is now out of reach for average families. What used to be regular vacation for middle-class families has evolved into a luxury trip with pricey add-ons everywhere you look.

With admission prices that change based on demand, a one-day, one-park base ticket for Disney World costs $141.74 on average, according to a LendingTree analysis. However, purchasing tickets during popular travel periods, park hopping, or reserving ride times to skip crowds can double the cost of tickets.

...

But the disillusionment doesn’t stop there. 68.3% said rampant price increases and nickel and diming have made it feel like Disney World has lost its magic. So parents across the country are making other vacation plans. From wanting to show their kids the world now that borders have re-opened, to showing them the wonder of mother nature, families are saying bye bye to Mickey and Minnie and hello to these vacation destinations
ions.

“I always believed that Disney was a brand that needs to be accessible,” said Bog Iger, CEO of Disney, at a March Morgan Stanley media conference. “And I think that in our zeal to grow profits, we may have been a little bit too aggressive about some of our pricing.”

This is the first time I had heard that he made that comment. Is that true? I'm wondering if he really thinks that, or it's just lip-service and/or a jab at Chapek's regime?

 

[focusondisney]

Well, it helped that they closed sections of resorts during some of those times--I distinctly remember that large swaths of POR were taken offline right after 9/11. Those rooms would not count against those occupancy numbers.

But, yeah, the overall occupancy at WDW is bananas.

Yep. And they closed the whole French Quarter resort. I think at least 1 AllStar resort was closed too. From Port Orleans.org:

After the terrible events in New York in September 2001, the subsequent drop in tourist demand meant that Disney needed to urgently reduce some of its resort capacity. From late November 2001, French Quarter was completely closed and Riverside’s capacity was severely curtailed to around 350 rooms. Guests who had bookings were contacted and offered alternative resort choices. The Sassagoula River Cruise was also taken out of service for several months. As demand picked up again, French Quarter was reopened for new bookings starting from 31 May 2002. Disney apparently used the six month downtime to undertake renovation work on the food court.

A year later, with demand presumably still lower than normal, French Quarter was once again closed for more extensive update and renovation work to all guest rooms from 4 May 2003 until 21 March 2004, see the Local News 6 website for details. The freshly renovated rooms had new furniture, new carpeting, new wall coverings and remodeled bathrooms. 200 new or rehired staff were recruited to reopen the resort.

 

[tee11]

No question there are vacations at many price points.

The cost of all travel has really escalated over the past few years. I've found that hotels that were $150 are now $250. Rental cars are $700 when they were $400.

I looked at the cost of a Europe trip and airfare for our family was $5,000 on the low end. And that is just getting there.

This is not to excuse Disney from contributing to all this vacation inflation. If travel slows down, everything will get less expensive eventually.

But it doesn't have to be. If you were watching airline tickets as closely as Disney's releases and specials, you can get airline tickets to Europe for much less. We spent 2400 on tickets to France this Spring for a family of four (included suitcase and seat reservations for all). We are going back to Disney this summer, but I'm constantly thinking - should I've rather booked us on another Europe trip instead?! A week at WDW can easily be more expensive than a week in Europe.

 

[J-Dog]

But it doesn't have to be. If you were watching airline tickets as closely as Disney's releases and specials, you can get airline tickets to Europe for much less. We spent 2400 on tickets to France this Spring for a family of four (included suitcase and seat reservations for all). We are going back to Disney this summer, but I'm constantly thinking - should I've rather booked us on another Europe trip instead?! A week at WDW can easily be more expensive than a week in Europe.

I guess I don't understand this argument. I totally understand that Disney's prices are going up like crazy, but I'm not really sure how Disney and Europe are comparable.

People talk like somehow going to Europe is everyone's ultimate goal, and they were only previously going to Disney because they couldn't afford to go to Europe.

What about people who aren't interested in Europe? The increases in costs of a Disney trip aren't somehow "solved" because Europe might be cheaper.

 

[tee11]

I guess I don't understand this argument. I totally understand that Disney's prices are going up like crazy, but I'm not really sure how Disney and Europe are comparable.

People talk like somehow going to Europe is everyone's ultimate goal, and they were only previously going to Disney because they couldn't afford to go to Europe.

What about people who aren't interested in Europe? The increases in costs of a Disney trip aren't somehow "solved" because Europe might be cheaper.

Oh, absolutely. It's such an individual decision where to vacation, and what to do and see when you have the chance. It's just regarding the price, in response to the common notion "We would choose Europe, but it's still much more expensive." It's truly not.