DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Angel Ariel]

This is what is happening now though. There are lots of guest complains about long standby line, how the only way to enjoy rides is with Genie+ and there are complains from Genie+ users that they aren't getting their money's worth from it.

Purely from a numbers perspective and assuming the numbers that have been floating around are true. If 8% of my guests are very happy, but 50% are unhappy and a percentage of those 50% are paying extra, who should I focus on???

The only way Disney is going to fix the actual issue at the root of all of this is to add ride capacity.

I would also add I think it's a huge jump to say all 8% of DAS users are "very happy" - we don't have data to base that on at all. There's still lots of reasons DAS users have difficulties in the parks and may not be ranking high on guest satisfaction. Not all of that 8% are riding significantly higher numbers of attractions than the average guest either. Some are, absolutely - those who likely don't actually need DAS. But that's not all DAS users.

 

[OurBigTrip]

They can be a business, make a killing for their shareholders AND still do better than the average Joe on accommodations. None of this is either/or territory.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We can agree to disagree.

Yep.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Not to mention a favorite destination of people with disabilties. They absolutely have room for improvement, but they're still a lot more accessible than many other vacation spots, which makes people with disabilities and their families choose a Disney trip. The company makes a LOT of money on disabled guests.

This may be too cynical, but I suspect that Disney has realized (with their reams of data) that they make relatively less on DAS parties so they are willing to lose the business of some groups of DAS users (to whom they do not have a legal obligation to provide DAS) if it means that other higher spending demographics will visit more frequently again and/or spend more time in the parks if wait times drop (or Genie+ works better). I don’t know if it’s been reported anywhere but anecdotally, it seems a lot of DAS holders are AP holders and coming frequently using advanced selections and LL capacity without paying for LL access— then add in fakers and misusers (those who could successfully wait in line but prefer not to) AP holders with large DAS parties, I suspect Disney would be happy to have fewer of that group .

Others have pointed out Tiana’s Bayou Adventure as the immediate impetus, but it’s going to open before the late June changeover as best I can tell. I do think that Disney has its hottest rides on VQ to keep access manageable (lines under 2-3 hours, ability to sell ILL) and equal for DAS and non-DAS guests—but many people also hate VQs, so I think they are trying to get DAS numbers manageable (smaller parties, fewer qualifying guests) so that they can stop using VQs, give all guests shorter waits (both standby and LL), and sell more LLs (and/or allow Genie+ users to actually get more than 2-3 high value LLs a day).

One final thing— when this thread started, I believed Disney had hard capacity constraints but many have pointed out that they could significantly increase capacity but extending park hours (standard hours and also extra resort hours) which would spread out daily attendance, allow some who can’t handle lines to attend at less crowded times, and offer more LL capacity for all kinds of guests— I know it’s a tight labor market but I really hope they will try to increase the ride capacity pie instead of just slicing it up differently.

 

[Disneychick75]

This may be too cynical, but I suspect that Disney has realized (with their reams of data) that they make relatively less on DAS parties so they are willing to lose the business of some groups of DAS users (to whom they do not have a legal obligation to provide DAS) if it means that other higher spending demographics will visit more frequently again and/or spend more time in the parks if wait times drop (or Genie+ works better). I don’t know if it’s been reported anywhere but anecdotally, it seems a lot of DAS holders are AP holders and coming frequently using advanced selections and LL capacity without paying for LL access— then add in fakers and misusers (those who could successfully wait in line but prefer not to) AP holders with large DAS parties, I suspect Disney would be happy to have fewer of that group .

Others have pointed out Tiana’s Bayou Adventure as the immediate impetus, but it’s going to open before the late June changeover as best I can tell. I do think that Disney has its hottest rides on VQ to keep access manageable (lines under 2-3 hours, ability to sell ILL) and equal for DAS and non-DAS guests—but many people also hate VQs, so I think they are trying to get DAS numbers manageable (smaller parties, fewer qualifying guests) so that they can stop using VQs, give all guests shorter waits (both standby and LL), and sell more LLs (and/or allow Genie+ users to actually get more than 2-3 high value LLs a day).

One final thing— when this thread started, I believed Disney had hard capacity constraints but many have pointed out that they could significantly increase capacity but extending park hours (standard hours and also extra resort hours) which would spread out daily attendance, allow some who can’t handle lines to attend at less crowded times, and offer more LL capacity for all kinds of guests— I know it’s a tight labor market but I really hope they will try to increase the ride capacity pie instead of just slicing it up differently.

Wish late hours would be extended because the children could swim during the day, then we could go the parks with fewer other guests (?), stay late, and sleep late.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Again - Disney has nowhere to put any responsibility for this thought process than themselves. It has been a mantra I of how the company has been run for decades - a source of pride, even.

They can be a business, make a killing for their shareholders AND still do better than the average Joe on accommodations. None of this is either/or territory.

I think some of the things that have helped create Disney's reputation, and part of the reason many people come back is the "little extras," those little bits of magic Disney would sprinkle here and there. Moments that added to he magic and made guests feel special. Things like towel animals, a FP for use on a future trip for a kid disappointed by being too short to ride, the extra time/interaction characters would sometimes spend with people, the occasional free ice cream or whatever, how hard Disney always tried to both "make things right" when something went wrong and add magic when people weren't expecting it.

A lot of those things aren't as common anymore, and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with expectations of guests. It spreads through word of mouth and online that one guest received "x" and then everyone gets upset if they aren't given the same thing. Those little bits of pixie dust became expectations and aren't sustainable or realistic to be given to all.

The point is, yes, Disney does have a reputation for going "above and beyond" but it's not always feasible to continue going above and beyond when that becomes the expectation. Relating that to accommodations, I would imagine that over the years many have received DAS that maybe weren't supposed to have qualified, but CMs were trying to give a little extra pixie dust. Then it becomes an expectation and spread around that "I received it for x" and everyone expects that same accommodation for x, or, y, or z. Eventually, it becomes unsustainable.

I think Disney is trying to do what they can to make things magical for everyone while reigning in expectations.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think some of the things that have helped create Disney's reputation, and part of the reason many people come back is the "little extras," those little bits of magic Disney would sprinkle here and there. Moments that added to he magic and made guests feel special. Things like towel animals, a FP for use on a future trip for a kid disappointed by being too short to ride, the extra time/interaction characters would sometimes spend with people, the occasional free ice cream or whatever, how hard Disney always tried to both "make things right" when something went wrong and add magic when people weren't expecting it.

A lot of those things aren't as common anymore, and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with expectations of guests. It spreads through word of mouth and online that one guest received "x" and then everyone gets upset if they aren't given the same thing. Those little bits of pixie dust became expectations and aren't sustainable or realistic to be given to all.

The point is, yes, Disney does have a reputation for going "above and beyond" but it's not always feasible to continue going above and beyond when that becomes the expectation. Relating that to accommodations, I would imagine that over the years many have received DAS that maybe weren't supposed to have qualified, but CMs were trying to give a little extra pixie dust. Then it becomes an expectation and spread around that "I received it for x" and everyone expects that same accommodation for x, or, y, or z. Eventually, it becomes unsustainable.

I think Disney is trying to do what they can to make things magical for everyone while reigning in expectations.

I want to make clear that in my post, I was not referring to pixie dust moments.

I'm referring to things that were the basis of the company - like walt walking main street with a hot dog to determine how close together trash cans should be placed to ensure his park was impeccably clean (which was above and beyond what other parks were doing at the time). I'm referring to the *attention to detail* that made this company, not pixie dust moments. Accessibility is a part of park operations, just as trash collection is - it's not a pixie dust moment.

As I've said numerous times in this thread, I appreciate that abuse exists and understand that Disney needs to address that. I am not, nor have at any point in this thread, argued against it being appropriate to have various accommodations available - not every accommodation is appropriate for every person, wholeheartedly understand and agree with that.

I also believe - based on the history of the company - that the company is creative and resourceful enough to figure out a way to implement such changes without negatively impacting people with disabilities who actually need these accommodations.

 

[rastuso]

DISCLAIMER: These are results from another park I received today, but I wanted to share with everyone that not all is lost if not directly mentioned on the website. Tell your story, and Disney, with their history, I'm sure will take the time to analyze your case and see what will work for you best

• Which park? -- Canada's Wonderland
• Does your trip start before or after the 'new rules' date? If before, are all the days of your trip before?-- New rules of Line Pass (return to queue for non DDs) kicked in November 2023. Trip is AFTER
• What kind of tickets? Did your ticket type require park reservations? Only date based tickets don't require reservations -- Season's Pass (like Annual Pass)
• Does the person you did registration for fit into the category of developmental disability (autism or similar) that is listed on the website or some other issues/concerns with waiting in the regular lines? -- OTHER
• REMINDER: don't post specific diagnosis, symptoms or conditions, just 'yes' or 'other'
• Did the person end up registered for DAS or other accommodations? If other accommodations, do they sound like they will meet the needs? -- Boarding Pass (Standard DAS equivalent)

Other notes to mention:
* Had to give A LOT of extra details and explanations
* Had to go through multiple levels of employees and ultimately a supervisor was brought in
* Approved for the 2024 season for up to only 4 guests (including myself) per visit

I know this is not Disney, exactly, but it shows even though parks around the world seem to be moving towards DDs as the primary focus of their disability accommodations programs, they will still look at individual cases and determine if they qualify too. This result today has given me a lot of hope for my Disney registration in July and I literally cannot stop tearing from the emotions, the stress I had all winter/spring I had with that park rule change in the winter with the compounded stress of the new changes with Disney. Sorry if this bothers anyone, but I wanted to give some glimmer of hope to everyone out their stressing over their upcoming trips to

Disability pass abuse has creeped in to Siz Flags, Cedar Fair, and Hershey too. There are always lines waiting to get in those entrances now.

And I could see some of those being much better advantages too.

 

[rastuso]

DISCLAIMER: These are results from another park I received today, but I wanted to share with everyone that not all is lost if not directly mentioned on the website. Tell your story, and Disney, with their history, I'm sure will take the time to analyze your case and see what will work for you best

• Which park? -- Canada's Wonderland
• Does your trip start before or after the 'new rules' date? If before, are all the days of your trip before?-- New rules of Line Pass (return to queue for non DDs) kicked in November 2023. Trip is AFTER
• What kind of tickets? Did your ticket type require park reservations? Only date based tickets don't require reservations -- Season's Pass (like Annual Pass)
• Does the person you did registration for fit into the category of developmental disability (autism or similar) that is listed on the website or some other issues/concerns with waiting in the regular lines? -- OTHER
• REMINDER: don't post specific diagnosis, symptoms or conditions, just 'yes' or 'other'
• Did the person end up registered for DAS or other accommodations? If other accommodations, do they sound like they will meet the needs? -- Boarding Pass (Standard DAS equivalent)

Other notes to mention:
* Had to give A LOT of extra details and explanations
* Had to go through multiple levels of employees and ultimately a supervisor was brought in
* Approved for the 2024 season for up to only 4 guests (including myself) per visit

I know this is not Disney, exactly, but it shows even though parks around the world seem to be moving towards DDs as the primary focus of their disability accommodations programs, they will still look at individual cases and determine if they qualify too. This result today has given me a lot of hope for my Disney registration in July and I literally cannot stop tearing from the emotions, the stress I had all winter/spring I had with that park rule change in the winter with the compounded stress of the new changes with Disney. Sorry if this bothers anyone, but I wanted to give some glimmer of hope to everyone out their stressing over their upcoming trips to

Disability pass abuse has creeped in to Siz Flags, Cedar Fair, and Hershey too. There are always lines waiting to get in those entrances now.

And I could see some of those being much better advantages too.

At WDW, MNSSHP tickets typically (in recent years) have been going on sale in May. They just announced the Food and Wine Festival Dates for Epcot today (starts end of August).

IME, DLR and WDW are quite different in the advance planning aspects of the trip - which isn't really surprising, since DLR is catering to a far more local population than WDW.

You’ve never gotten Oogie Boogie Bash tickets...

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I want to make clear that in my post, I was not referring to pixie dust moments.

I'm referring to things that were the basis of the company - like walt walking main street with a hot dog to determine how close together trash cans should be placed to ensure his park was impeccably clean (which was above and beyond what other parks were doing at the time). I'm referring to the *attention to detail* that made this company, not pixie dust moments. Accessibility is a part of park operations, just as trash collection is - it's not a pixie dust moment.

As I've said numerous times in this thread, I appreciate that abuse exists and understand that Disney needs to address that. I am not, nor have at any point in this thread, argued against it being appropriate to have various accommodations available - not every accommodation is appropriate for every person, wholeheartedly understand and agree with that.

I also believe - based on the history of the company - that the company is creative and resourceful enough to figure out a way to implement such changes without negatively impacting people with disabilities who actually need these accommodations.

We don't know yet what other accomodations are going to be offered or how they will be implemented, so to say that it will negatively impact the people who need them seems a bit premature. I can understand the frustration and anxiety of not knowing, but I also don't know that they could have really made the rollout better. If accomodations are supposed to be individualized and not diagnosis-based, then giving too much info puts them in the same position they were in with expectations. Accomodations can't be guaranteed until that phone call, so saying everything online that they will offer for which issues isn't realistic, because everyone's needs differ and it would just build that expectation that people will get a specific accommodation that they may end up denied for because a different accommodation will be offered.

 

[rastuso]

DISCLAIMER: These are results from another park I received today, but I wanted to share with everyone that not all is lost if not directly mentioned on the website. Tell your story, and Disney, with their history, I'm sure will take the time to analyze your case and see what will work for you best

• Which park? -- Canada's Wonderland
• Does your trip start before or after the 'new rules' date? If before, are all the days of your trip before?-- New rules of Line Pass (return to queue for non DDs) kicked in November 2023. Trip is AFTER
• What kind of tickets? Did your ticket type require park reservations? Only date based tickets don't require reservations -- Season's Pass (like Annual Pass)
• Does the person you did registration for fit into the category of developmental disability (autism or similar) that is listed on the website or some other issues/concerns with waiting in the regular lines? -- OTHER
• REMINDER: don't post specific diagnosis, symptoms or conditions, just 'yes' or 'other'
• Did the person end up registered for DAS or other accommodations? If other accommodations, do they sound like they will meet the needs? -- Boarding Pass (Standard DAS equivalent)

Other notes to mention:
* Had to give A LOT of extra details and explanations
* Had to go through multiple levels of employees and ultimately a supervisor was brought in
* Approved for the 2024 season for up to only 4 guests (including myself) per visit

I know this is not Disney, exactly, but it shows even though parks around the world seem to be moving towards DDs as the primary focus of their disability accommodations programs, they will still look at individual cases and determine if they qualify too. This result today has given me a lot of hope for my Disney registration in July and I literally cannot stop tearing from the emotions, the stress I had all winter/spring I had with that park rule change in the winter with the compounded stress of the new changes with Disney. Sorry if this bothers anyone, but I wanted to give some glimmer of hope to everyone out their stressing over their upcoming trips to

Disability pass abuse has creeped in to Siz Flags, Cedar Fair, and Hershey too. There are always lines waiting to get in those entrances now.

And I could see some of those being much better advantages too.

At WDW, MNSSHP tickets typically (in recent years) have been going on sale in May. They just announced the Food and Wine Festival Dates for Epcot today (starts end of August).

IME, DLR and WDW are quite different in the advance planning aspects of the trip - which isn't really surprising, since DLR is catering to a far more local population than WDW.

You’ve never gotten Oogie

#1 - Developmental disabilities are not "mental issues."

#2 - I do believe the mods asked specifically for posters to not pit disabilities against other disabilities.

#1, they are most certainly caused by the brain and nervous system.

#2. I’m not putting them against each other, simply stating the fact that physical disabilities by and large are ignored by Disney.

 

[Kgrace1989]

I wonder if you register under the old rules but your trip straddles June 20th if you'll get the old DAS for your entire trip? I can register May 17. My trip is June 16 to 23. I'm having stress dreams about this!

I think… (and this is only my opinion from what I’ve read/been told) you would have the same qualifying factors and registration process as the “old DAS”…
But, many of the new guidelines for how it operates in the parks should be in affect.
Example: like the 10 min returns ect.

 

[Angel Ariel]

#1, they are most certainly caused by the brain and nervous system.

#2. I’m not putting them against each other, simply stating the fact that physical disabilities by and large are ignored by Disney.

That's actually not the case for all developmental disabilities. My child's developmental disability is genetic. She's had a brain MRI, and it's normal. The genetic disorder doesn't impact her nervous system either, it impacts a very specific gene and its expression. It's not a nervous system issue.

And this is without going into the fact that "mental issues" and "mental illness" are pretty much synonymous in current society.

So, again, I restate. Developmental disabilities are not "mental issues".

 

[Angel Ariel]

We don't know yet what other accomodations are going to be offered or how they will be implemented, so to say that it will negatively impact the people who need them seems a bit premature. I can understand the frustration and anxiety of not knowing, but I also don't know that they could have really made the rollout better. If accomodations are supposed to be individualized and not diagnosis-based, then giving too much info puts them in the same position they were in with expectations. Accomodations can't be guaranteed until that phone call, so saying everything online that they will offer for which issues isn't realistic, because everyone's needs differ and it would just build that expectation that people will get a specific accommodation that they may end up denied for because a different accommodation will be offered.

Sigh. I'm sorry, it's not you - but I've repeatedly acknowledged in this thread that we don't yet know what the accommodations will be. Yes, I own that I wasn't explicit about it in the post which you quoted, but that's because I've said it repeatedly already, so truly please forgive me for missing it after 188 pages of discussion

 

[Unity]

5. that forum seems to have determined that ADHD will not be included under the new DAS and again 1-4.

Gonna be honest, until we hear more from Disney I think those with disabilities just need to apply, state what symptoms they have and why it is difficult for them and see.

Under the Americans with Disability act, ADHD is considered a developmental disability. But until we get to know what Disney's actual definitions are and what their plans are - it is only speculation.

We'll only know really after around May 20th I suppose.

 

[Kgrace1989]

I've done the DAS interview for my DS at least 5 times. Only once was the CM a little 'more,' if you will. A little attitude in questioning, etc. That was last May. All the others have been fine. Agreed. I just feel uncomfortable discussing nero diversity issues in depth with someone given a few hours of training, likely waiting to hear certain words from me. As much as I am extremely grateful for DAS and it has been a game changer on our trips, I still don't like a corporation having our diagnosis.

Disney is not asking for a diagnosis, actually they don’t want one at all.
They want to know how they can help you and what the challenges are that you have touring the parks.

Please don’t be overwhelmed and stressed… there is a lot of drama and speculation and a lot of people are fearful of losing what they felt was the only way they could tour the parks.

But at the end of the day…. Disney wants happy guests.

It’s really that simple.

They want people leaving the parks wanting to come back. They want that from the non disabled and disabled guests alike.

They may only offer “DAS” for certain people. But that doesn’t mean the other accommodations won’t work.. and it also doesn’t mean anything other than DAS is “less” of an accommodation.

AND please also know that all this chaos and upset doesn’t mean that they won’t offer you (or anyone else who had one ) the same accommodations that made your trip possible last time.

I really encourage you to reach out and do the interview and explain your needs. Disney has said over and over in recent interviews regarding the changes

“that they still remain committed to assisting ALL guests in having a wonderful vacation.”

They mean that, so please as you go forward just realize that Disney isn’t out to get you, they are changing things in order to have more efficient movements of both the LLs and standby…. Tell them what they can do to do help you with your needs, and they will do the best (within their ability) to assist you

I really hope you have lots of magical Disney trips still in your future

 

[Kgrace1989]

Gonna be honest, until we hear more from Disney I think those with disabilities just need to apply, state what symptoms they have and why it is difficult for them and see.

Under the Americans with Disability act, ADHD is considered a developmental disability. But until we get to know what Disney's actual definitions are and what their plans are - it is only speculation.

We'll only know really after around May 20th I suppose.

Yes. This. .
Even if they kept their program ambiguous and didn’t offer many posted details (which I don’t expect them to do) but if they did… the advice would still be the same.
Just reach out and explain your needs, they want to help

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

simply stating the fact that physical disabilities by and large are ignored by Disney.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. Sure, there's room for improvement, but I feel Disney is by and far more accommodating to those with physical disabilities than other parks. I mentioned this earlier, but several years ago at Cedar Point I needed to avoid stairs. No one could even tell me which queues had stairs, and two of the "alternate entrances" I was sent to to avoid stairs had stairs. Disney making most queues accessible, having an established alternate way to access those that aren't, and loads of info available online about those offerings and what to expect doesn't come across to me that physical disabilities are being ignored. And for those not accommodated by those things, Disney may have other accomodations available that can be discussed during a virtual chat.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Sigh. I'm sorry, it's not you - but I've repeatedly acknowledged in this thread that we don't yet know what the accommodations will be. Yes, I own that I wasn't explicit about it in the post which you quoted, but that's because I've said it repeatedly already, so truly please forgive me for missing it after 188 pages of discussion

I understand that! So much of the same sentiments really has been repeated as nauseum. My point was moreso getting into the discussion of the rollout and how it's probably very difficult to initiate a new system while not creating expectations for people.

 

[Disturbia]

Indeed the response was similar, but it doesn't really answer the question. Why do folks expect theme parks to be on another lvl of communications than other tourist destinations?

The Eiffel Tower certainly doesn't give their elevator refurbishment calendar 6 months in advance. Nor the CN Tower, or the Statue of Liberty. Just to name a few random but popular ones. So why are theme parks expected to ??? I don't get it tbh.

I agree with Mackenzie as well that a longer rollout would lead to more uncertainty and anxiety. With 1.5 months in advance everyone is panicking, imagine 4 months??

Rip the bandaid and be be done with it IMO.

Because that’s what they’ve done in the past and that’s what their long term repeat customers now expect. Disney was different from Six Flags and they specialized in making your experience so immersive so you forgot your worldly worries for a while. For those of us who’ve been going for well over a decade that’s what Disney was.

Now that Disney created the nostalgia they’re struggling with overcrowding.