DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[nalababybear]

It came from Len Testa, so is unofficial, not verifiable and (as I understood it) is an extrapolation of a limited amount of data

Anecdotal evidence on a DAS routine goer. Parents of ASD tend to be on alert and especially so while we wait in the LL lines that have gotten longer ....

at least from the DLR side here out west we rarely encounter another DAS on the lead up to tapping in at the entrance. That's before and after us at the very least and several families ahead. --- so if really greater than 10% of parties, we would easily see this happen at least once a day. If it were 50% we'd be talking with them every single LL

 

[jlundeen]

Anecdotal evidence on a DAS routine goer. Parents of ASD tend to be on alert and especially so while we wait in the LL lines that have gotten longer ....

at least from the DLR side here out west we rarely encounter another DAS on the lead up to tapping in at the entrance. That's before and after us at the very least and several families ahead. --- so if really greater than 10% of parties, we would easily see this happen at least once a day. If it were 50% we'd be talking with them every single LL

I've never seen another DAS user tap in cllose to me either. And I've been going a couple times a year for 6-7 day trips (WDW). Granted, I don't go to that many attractions - so this is also just anecdotal reporting.

 

[jlundeen]

I wonder how LT gathers this info. There's no way to know if a guest is using DAS (or how many guests follow the DAS user into the queue) unless he's standing along side the CM managing the lines...

 

[Kgrace1989]

It seems to me that the key to whether or not these changes will be successful, both short and long term, will be the CMs who are taking the DAS requests. There really isn't room here for "pixie dust", either in granting a DAS nor in making the group size larger. Disney will need to clearly define "immediate family", and the CMs need to stick to it. Same goes for the criteria - if the criteria, as determined by Disney in conjunction with the third party medical team, isn't met, then the DAS shouldn't be granted.

Absolutely . And a the end of the day… Disney needs fewer guests using the DAS system. And they intend to find other ways to accommodate many of those who currently do use DAS.

 

[taradelao]

I've never seen another DAS user tap in cllose to me either. And I've been going a couple times a year for 6-7 day trips (WDW). Granted, I don't go to that many attractions - so this is also just anecdotal reporting.

My experience over multiple trips per year is similar. It's very rare that we've had other DAS users tapping when we've gone. A majority are actually LL users (as evidenced by the tech issues I've seen lol). Those that I did see using DAS are those that likely would still need DAS under the new rules. I have a hard time believing the 75% figure.

 

[OurBigTrip]

It's not just DAS or no DAS.
Learning to use the new alternative accommodation (when offered) as a tool may take time but we hope it will be helpful.

Agree 100% that there will be various accommodations to offer. But we also know that guests will give the CMs all sorts of reasons why ONLY the DAS will work for them or why they MUST have 6 non-immediate family members adding if they get the DAS. The CMs will need to be firm on sticking to the rules.

 

[Sparrow'sLady]

How are you defining "unruly" children?


I will give you this....these days everybody needs instant gratification and society as it is now, for the most part, is parents gratifying their children with a lack discipline, a lack of "no" and always placing a device in their hands, which has resulted in a lack of patience. There are many studies out there showing that attention deficits and ADHD "signs" are often produced by instant gratification, always having screen time and a poor diet filled with bioengineered foods and artificial coloring. While that would make a child seem "unruly", are they ruining your vacation?

The bottom line is this...the number of people on the Autism spectrum these days is off the charts. How can any of us know who is "unruly" and who really has a medical situation that affects their brain? ASD does not wear a sign. My niece is 8 and on the spectrum and has the attention span of a 4-year-old, but high functioning. She does not appear to have a disability, but when you are around her for more than 30 minutes she can be "a lot". I love her with all my heart and have learned how to work her differences, but if I saw her at a grocery store, I might think "wow, that kid needs discipline". My other niece, 18, is on the spectrum and has severe dyslexia. She is also high functioning, but quiet, fidgety, and as sweet as she can be. Opposite ends, both high functioning. They do not wear a sign saying they have Autism or an attention deficit.


Maybe it is best to take a step back and say “maybe that child has a developmental issue that affects their thinking process and thank God my children do not struggle with that”. If somebody’s children bother any of us in the parks, we can just walk away. If you are in a line and they are bothering you, turn your focus from them and talk to the people you are with and appreciate what you have. None of these parents wanted this for their families.

I have also found that many parents, if you approach it the right way, will address and redirect their children.

• Was standing in line one time and had a kid keep poking me in the rear with his finger. He had a sensory disorder at minimum, going by the ear coverings. I turned to his mom, looked her dead in the eye and said "ma'am, I know he does not mean anything by it, but could you please assist your boy to stop poking me in the rear? He may not know, but that is very personal and making me uncomfortable." She apologized and the rest of wait (maybe 15 minutes) was pleasant.
• Was waiting for the Frozen attraction (you know how long that could be) and a mom and her son were behind us. He kept bumping into us, full body, walking in front of us and back to his mom, trying to squeeze between us and the handrail, etc. It was fine for the first 5 minutes, until it wasn't. I am guessing he had ADHD, but maybe he was just excited and mom simply did not care to control him. The resolution was simple. They are 2 people. I was a little catty I suppose, but I looked at the mom with a smile and said "you guy are more excited to ride it than we are, go ahead and go in front of us". Resolved! He stopped running into us, he became somebody else's concern and we enjoyed the next half hour or so in line.

​

It is okay to let people go in front of you if it makes your wait more enjoyable. A few people are not going to really slow your wait time.

It is okay to ask a CM to load somebody before you or in a different direction.

 

[SteveMouse]

It seems to me that the key to whether or not these changes will be successful, both short and long term, will be the CMs who are taking the DAS requests. There really isn't room here for "pixie dust", either in granting a DAS nor in making the group size larger. Disney will need to clearly define "immediate family", and the CMs need to stick to it. Same goes for the criteria - if the criteria, as determined by Disney in conjunction with the third party medical team, isn't met, then the DAS shouldn't be granted.

A real issue is the "criteria" and how extensive was the review and the knowledge of the reviewers. Edited to clarify: criteria should not include a list of diagnoses but on needs that an accommodation can meet.

Some people have rare diseases. Some with incident rates of 1 in 1.5 million or less. Individuals with some of these conditions may have similar needs as someone with a more commonly known condition. Should they be excluded from consideration simply because the reviewer didn't know of the condition? Or research appropriately?

That's falling into the "my condition is more deserving than yours" bucket.

 

[lanejudy]

Some people have rare diseases. Some with incident rates of 1 in 1.5 million or less. Individuals with some of these conditions may have similar needs as someone with a more commonly known condition. Should they be excluded from consideration simply because the reviewer didn't know of the condition? Or research appropriately?

Disease = diagnosis. To my knowledge, diagnosis is still not a criteria in determining accommodations -- DAS or otherwise. It is going to come down to the discussion about one's needs as they relate to waiting in a standard queue environment. There should be no need to mention diagnosis, so rare or common really doesn't matter. And I say that as a parent of a child who was diagnosed with a rare disease at age 2. Her diagnosis doesn't matter; what is important to the Accessibility team is what are her needs in the queue.

 

[OurBigTrip]

A real issue is the "criteria" and how extensive was the review and the knowledge of the reviewers.

Some people have rare diseases. Some with incident rates of 1 in 1.5 million or less. Individuals with some of these conditions may have similar needs as someone with a more commonly known condition. Should they be excluded from consideration simply because the reviewer didn't know of the condition? Or research appropriately?

That's falling into the "my condition is more deserving than yours" bucket.

It's not about diagnosis, it's about need - it doesn't matter how rare a condition is, it matters how that condition impacts the ability to wait in a standard queue and how Disney can address those needs.

 

[SueM in MN]

Anecdotal evidence on a DAS routine goer. Parents of ASD tend to be on alert and especially so while we wait in the LL lines that have gotten longer ....

at least from the DLR side here out west we rarely encounter another DAS on the lead up to tapping in at the entrance. That's before and after us at the very least and several families ahead. --- so if really greater than 10% of parties, we would easily see this happen at least once a day. If it were 50% we'd be talking with them every single LL

I've never seen another DAS user tap in cllose to me either. And I've been going a couple times a year for 6-7 day trips (WDW). Granted, I don't go to that many attractions - so this is also just anecdotal reporting.

I wonder how LT gathers this info. There's no way to know if a guest is using DAS (or how many guests follow the DAS user into the queue) unless he's standing along side the CM managing the lines...

That is a good question.

My experience over multiple trips per year is similar. It's very rare that we've had other DAS users tapping when we've gone. A majority are actually LL users (as evidenced by the tech issues I've seen lol). Those that I did see using DAS are those that likely would still need DAS under the new rules. I have a hard time believing the 75% figure.

My family's experience is the same as all the other posters I quoted.

That said, it doesn't matter what percentage it is. Disney has decided to make changes

 

[SueM in MN]

Disease = diagnosis. To my knowledge, diagnosis is still not a criteria in determining accommodations -- DAS or otherwise. It is going to come down to the discussion about one's needs as they relate to waiting in a standard queue environment. There should be no need to mention diagnosis, so rare or common really doesn't matter. And I say that as a parent of a child who was diagnosed with a rare disease at age 2. Her diagnosis doesn't matter; what is important to the Accessibility team is what are her needs in the queue.

Totally agree.
The diagnosis, or how rare or common it is, doesn't matter.
What does matter is for the individual or the person speaking for them knows what their individual concerns are and are able to articulate it.

 

[PrincessV]

At this point, I honestly am not sure if this is actually what I read, or what I’ve extrapolated - perhaps mistakenly - from what I’ve read, so please correct me if it’s wrong… my understanding was that the LT data was conducted by watching tap-ins at HM, with the assumption that a blue light = DAS user, and then those who immediately follow the DAS user are their party.

I haven’t ever paid attention to the color of other people’s tap-ins, so despite my frequent park visits, I’ve not got even anecdotal data on that for comparison. I can say that HM is one of very few attractions at which I’ve ever seen a LL backup, so I understand using it as an example… but at the same time is it a fair comparison with the dozens of other attractions at which the LL rarely if ever back up? This feels like math and I’m not math-y.

One other thing I keep thinking about is perception of wait time and when does a LL wait end. Using HM as the example again, I’ve sometimes happened to arrive at the LL right behind multiple other parties and it takes a few minutes for them all to get tapped and into the actual queue: I don’t consider that part of my wait time. Once I’ve tapped in, I consider the LL wait time to be the walk from tapstiles to the point where LL merges with Standby - where we all congregate as a mass in the courtyard before the entry doors. Any additional waiting in that courtyard, in the stretching room, in the indoor portion of the queue, I do not consider part of the LL wait time, though it is part of my total amount of time waiting to board the ride. That distinction, depending on the attraction, can be a difference between a 5-min wait or a 20-min wait. I’d like to have a better understanding of what these reports of rampant 30+ minute waits for LL users are based on, because while a 30+ minute wait could be problematic for a DAS user in general, if only 5 mins of that was in the actual LL lane, the DAS/LL isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s a problem in that if most of that HM courtyard is full of DAS/LL users, it’s causing longer waits in Standby, but reducing the number of DAS parties entering via LL isn’t going to change how long the wait is from merge point to ride boarding for everyone: that’s still going to be filled to capacity on a busy day, as are the stretching rooms and indoor queue. ETA: I mean to mention, too, that I frequently submit wait time data to the TP app and it specifically wants users to wait to hit Submit until they are *about to board*, so their data is including the LL AND the merged wait when LL wait time data is entered by users.

 

[Madteaparty001]

At this point, I honestly am not sure if this is actually what I read, or what I’ve extrapolated - perhaps mistakenly - from what I’ve read, so please correct me if it’s wrong… my understanding was that the LT data was conducted by watching tap-ins at HM, with the assumption that a blue light = DAS user, and then those who immediately follow the DAS user are their party.

I haven’t ever paid attention to the color of other people’s tap-ins, so despite my frequent park visits, I’ve not got even anecdotal data on that for comparison. I can say that HM is one of very few attractions at which I’ve ever seen a LL backup, so I understand using it as an example… but at the same time is it a fair comparison with the dozens of other attractions at which the LL rarely if ever back up? This feels like math and I’m not math-y.

One other thing I keep thinking about is perception of wait time and when does a LL wait end. Using HM as the example again, I’ve sometimes happened to arrive at the LL right behind multiple other parties and it takes a few minutes for them all to get tapped and into the actual queue: I don’t consider that part of my wait time. Once I’ve tapped in, I consider the LL wait time to be the walk from tapstiles to the point where LL merges with Standby - where we all congregate as a mass in the courtyard before the entry doors. Any additional waiting in that courtyard, in the stretching room, in the indoor portion of the queue, I do not consider part of the LL wait time, though it is part of my total amount of time waiting to board the ride. That distinction, depending on the attraction, can be a difference between a 5-min wait or a 20-min wait. I’d like to have a better understanding of what these reports of rampant 30+ minute waits for LL users are based on, because while a 30+ minute wait could be problematic for a DAS user in general, if only 5 mins of that was in the actual LL lane, the DAS/LL isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s a problem in that if most of that HM courtyard is full of DAS/LL users, it’s causing longer waits in Standby, but reducing the number of DAS parties entering via LL isn’t going to change how long the wait is from merge point to ride boarding for everyone: that’s still going to be filled to capacity on a busy day, as are the stretching rooms and indoor queue.

I think a lot of the backups with HM have to do with the increase in wheelchair/ECV users that need help transferring. They need to completely stop the ride and that backs things up a lot. I wish they could retro fit it so that the loading is similar to the skyliner, though I'm sure that would take a lot of time and money that Disney probably isn't willing to spend.

As for the numbers, they would need to compare their first data set against several rides of different popularity levels across different times of the year to get an accurate picture. I think the DAS usage could look very different when there's more local APs vs. out of state guests. Which way those numbers would go I couldn't say.

 

[SueM in MN]

I think a lot of the backups with HM have to do with the increase in wheelchair/ECV users that need help transferring. They need to completely stop the ride and that backs things up a lot. I wish they could retro fit it so that the loading is similar to the skyliner, though I'm sure that would take a lot of time and money that Disney probably isn't willing to spend.

As for the numbers, they would need to compare their first data set against several rides of different popularity levels across different times of the year to get an accurate picture. I think the DAS usage could look very different when there's more local APs vs. out of state guests. Which way those numbers would go I couldn't say.

My family needs the moving walkway at Haunted Mansion to come to a total stop for loading and unloading. We've done this for many years.
That stop can only be made on one specific ride car. If multiple people need it stopped, they normally 'bunch' hose guests so it's only stopped once per cycle.
Other slows or stops would generally be people who boarded or unloaded and had an unexpected issue.

 

[jlundeen]

At this point, I honestly am not sure if this is actually what I read, or what I’ve extrapolated - perhaps mistakenly - from what I’ve read, so please correct me if it’s wrong… my understanding was that the LT data was conducted by watching tap-ins at HM, with the assumption that a blue light = DAS user, and then those who immediately follow the DAS user are their party.

I haven’t ever paid attention to the color of other people’s tap-ins, so despite my frequent park visits, I’ve not got even anecdotal data on that for comparison. I can say that HM is one of very few attractions at which I’ve ever seen a LL backup, so I understand using it as an example… but at the same time is it a fair comparison with the dozens of other attractions at which the LL rarely if ever back up? This feels like math and I’m not math-y.

One other thing I keep thinking about is perception of wait time and when does a LL wait end. Using HM as the example again, I’ve sometimes happened to arrive at the LL right behind multiple other parties and it takes a few minutes for them all to get tapped and into the actual queue: I don’t consider that part of my wait time. Once I’ve tapped in, I consider the LL wait time to be the walk from tapstiles to the point where LL merges with Standby - where we all congregate as a mass in the courtyard before the entry doors. Any additional waiting in that courtyard, in the stretching room, in the indoor portion of the queue, I do not consider part of the LL wait time, though it is part of my total amount of time waiting to board the ride. That distinction, depending on the attraction, can be a difference between a 5-min wait or a 20-min wait. I’d like to have a better understanding of what these reports of rampant 30+ minute waits for LL users are based on, because while a 30+ minute wait could be problematic for a DAS user in general, if only 5 mins of that was in the actual LL lane, the DAS/LL isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s a problem in that if most of that HM courtyard is full of DAS/LL users, it’s causing longer waits in Standby, but reducing the number of DAS parties entering via LL isn’t going to change how long the wait is from merge point to ride boarding for everyone: that’s still going to be filled to capacity on a busy day, as are the stretching rooms and indoor queue. ETA: I mean to mention, too, that I frequently submit wait time data to the TP app and it specifically wants users to wait to hit Submit until they are *about to board*, so their data is including the LL AND the merged wait when LL wait time data is entered by users.

I can give you an example of a DAS/LL tap in with a long wait -

Trip last fall - Soarin'. Late morning.

From first tap in to the second tap in, the line just stopped... it was at the least 25 minutes until I reached the second tap in, then the wait going down the mixed queue to be assigned a Bay. I almost bailed several times... luckily the person with me was very calming/soothing, and we did eventually make it. But we had to leave the park immediately afterwards.

I don't know if it was a ride malfunction, or what the issue was, but it was pretty awful for me.

There have been other times with what I considered long (10-15) for our DAS experiences, but that was the longest, I think.

 

[Disneychick75]

At this point, I honestly am not sure if this is actually what I read, or what I’ve extrapolated - perhaps mistakenly - from what I’ve read, so please correct me if it’s wrong… my understanding was that the LT data was conducted by watching tap-ins at HM, with the assumption that a blue light = DAS user, and then those who immediately follow the DAS user are their party.

I haven’t ever paid attention to the color of other people’s tap-ins, so despite my frequent park visits, I’ve not got even anecdotal data on that for comparison. I can say that HM is one of very few attractions at which I’ve ever seen a LL backup, so I understand using it as an example… but at the same time is it a fair comparison with the dozens of other attractions at which the LL rarely if ever back up? This feels like math and I’m not math-y.

One other thing I keep thinking about is perception of wait time and when does a LL wait end. Using HM as the example again, I’ve sometimes happened to arrive at the LL right behind multiple other parties and it takes a few minutes for them all to get tapped and into the actual queue: I don’t consider that part of my wait time. Once I’ve tapped in, I consider the LL wait time to be the walk from tapstiles to the point where LL merges with Standby - where we all congregate as a mass in the courtyard before the entry doors. Any additional waiting in that courtyard, in the stretching room, in the indoor portion of the queue, I do not consider part of the LL wait time, though it is part of my total amount of time waiting to board the ride. That distinction, depending on the attraction, can be a difference between a 5-min wait or a 20-min wait. I’d like to have a better understanding of what these reports of rampant 30+ minute waits for LL users are based on, because while a 30+ minute wait could be problematic for a DAS user in general, if only 5 mins of that was in the actual LL lane, the DAS/LL isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s a problem in that if most of that HM courtyard is full of DAS/LL users, it’s causing longer waits in Standby, but reducing the number of DAS parties entering via LL isn’t going to change how long the wait is from merge point to ride boarding for everyone: that’s still going to be filled to capacity on a busy day, as are the stretching rooms and indoor queue. ETA: I mean to mention, too, that I frequently submit wait time data to the TP app and it specifically wants users to wait to hit Submit until they are *about to board*, so their data is including the LL AND the merged wait when LL wait time data is entered by users.

This is what I remember as well.

 

[DisneyOma]

At this point, I honestly am not sure if this is actually what I read, or what I’ve extrapolated - perhaps mistakenly - from what I’ve read, so please correct me if it’s wrong… my understanding was that the LT data was conducted by watching tap-ins at HM, with the assumption that a blue light = DAS user, and then those who immediately follow the DAS user are their party.

Blue light is also for people who arrive too early, too late, or don't have LL to start with.

 

[sprem96]

At this point, I honestly am not sure if this is actually what I read, or what I’ve extrapolated - perhaps mistakenly - from what I’ve read, so please correct me if it’s wrong… my understanding was that the LT data was conducted by watching tap-ins at HM, with the assumption that a blue light = DAS user, and then those who immediately follow the DAS user are their party.

I haven’t ever paid attention to the color of other people’s tap-ins, so despite my frequent park visits, I’ve not got even anecdotal data on that for comparison. I can say that HM is one of very few attractions at which I’ve ever seen a LL backup, so I understand using it as an example… but at the same time is it a fair comparison with the dozens of other attractions at which the LL rarely if ever back up? This feels like math and I’m not math-y.

One other thing I keep thinking about is perception of wait time and when does a LL wait end. Using HM as the example again, I’ve sometimes happened to arrive at the LL right behind multiple other parties and it takes a few minutes for them all to get tapped and into the actual queue: I don’t consider that part of my wait time. Once I’ve tapped in, I consider the LL wait time to be the walk from tapstiles to the point where LL merges with Standby - where we all congregate as a mass in the courtyard before the entry doors. Any additional waiting in that courtyard, in the stretching room, in the indoor portion of the queue, I do not consider part of the LL wait time, though it is part of my total amount of time waiting to board the ride. That distinction, depending on the attraction, can be a difference between a 5-min wait or a 20-min wait. I’d like to have a better understanding of what these reports of rampant 30+ minute waits for LL users are based on, because while a 30+ minute wait could be problematic for a DAS user in general, if only 5 mins of that was in the actual LL lane, the DAS/LL isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s a problem in that if most of that HM courtyard is full of DAS/LL users, it’s causing longer waits in Standby, but reducing the number of DAS parties entering via LL isn’t going to change how long the wait is from merge point to ride boarding for everyone: that’s still going to be filled to capacity on a busy day, as are the stretching rooms and indoor queue. ETA: I mean to mention, too, that I frequently submit wait time data to the TP app and it specifically wants users to wait to hit Submit until they are *about to board*, so their data is including the LL AND the merged wait when LL wait time data is entered by users.

you bring up great points, last year I did GotG with my older daughter with an ILL, and it took almost 30 minutes with LL queue, merged lines (video rooms + final lineup) and ride itself. We would need to know that people with DAS/G+/ILL, what are they considering wait times, because I did find GotG long for myself with my disability, but then on a ride like Slinky, it's no more than 5-10 minutes or so with queue and ride. It could be a problem where people are looking at the entire wait time (including the merge) and not just the LL wait time. I do find Disney has a lot of rides with merge spots that still require a lot of waiting after the merge (HM, ToT, RnRCSA, RotR, Soar, Tron, Dinosaur, TT just as some examples)

And generally, I only tend to see LL lanes long when there had been a breakdown recently.

The problem is Disney has not, and most likely never, release any information regarding why they claim the LL lanes are becoming too long. They have just chosen to target and reduce DAS users as the solution.

 

[PrincessV]

Blue light is also for people who arrive too early, too late, or don't have LL to start with.

I wondered about that. I’m not sure how someone watching could be sure they’re counting actual DAS users unless they’re watching from the CM’s screen.