Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[DebbieB]

I am willing to bet that David's has Business Interruption insurance (Not sure it applies in this case), Liability Insurance, and Umbrella Insurance. I doubt that David's will be out any money except for increased premiums.

I also think that David's offering credits is a compromise with the insurance company to spread the payments out, to ease the financial burden, and possibly save money. How many people actually use the credits in time.

I work in Commercial Insurance, Business Interruption does not apply. Business Interruption coverage pays after a covered property loss (fire, etc). So if your business catches on fire and you lose income while you are closed, it is covered. There is no covered property loss here for Business Interruption to pay.

Liability is a possibility if David's is sued for negligence.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Just read this on FB. It sounds as if they have no idea how these travel credits will work.

View attachment 484078

Yeah, I don’t think they do. I believe even in the first email they said something like they are figuring out details. Very much a last ditch effort IMO.

Also worth noting that they have been deleting negative comments on their recent posts. A negative review was deleted too (I didn’t know that was possible).

 

[Lewisc]

David's is regulated by Ontario's Travel Regulator www.tico.ca There is a fund to cover some consumer losses due bankruptcy. I have no idea how David's operation is treated. If I was an affected Member or Renter I'd contact them.

The reality is filing legal action against a member (owner), David's or a renter is going to be difficult or impossible. The cost to file legal action, even if you win, is likely to be almost as much (probably more) then you'll be able to collect.

I suspect credit card disputes by renters and/or possible complaints with tico is your best shot of getting some restitution. If I were a member I'd only let David's re -rent the points David's agrees to pay the 30% balance within 24 hours of the replacement reservation.

 

[Sandisw]

I just got the same notice. So my choice is to return the 70%, which means there will be no 30% later, or rent the points again. The money received from either won't be given to the renter. It will be applied to a future credit. These points were banked from previous year and current year with Use year of June. So they expire in 2 months from today and David's knows this. The likely hood of re-renting is zero and nil. And nil is heading for the door.

What is really Pi**ing me off and getting me really hot under the collar right now is that if I am willing to lose 300 points with nothing in return, the renter is not getting the cash. David's is keeping it to apply to a future credit for the renter. So the renter is made whole, David's is made better than whole because they are keeping all the cash, and I am bent over the barrel. How the He** is this fair for both the renter and member that they promised a couple of days ago?

I am waiting until tomorrow to respond because I really want to tell them where to go and what to do when they get there. Up to this point, I was willing to work with the renter, but David's appears unwilling to work with me.

BTW, the reservation is in 4 weeks and Disney has not canceled the reservation yet.

Uggg. That is what worries me that if a refund is sent, it is not going to renter which would be the only reason I would even consider it.

Mine is August so I think by then this will be resolved,,or this broker won’t be in business,

I don’t know the answer other than to say its reallt put a damper on all of this.

 

[Sandisw]

Duh, yes. Thank you!

I guess I’m going to play follow the leader here. I don’t want to be a jerk To anyone but I also can’t afford to just lose 550 points. Hopefully DVC will come up with at least some sort of solution.

The fact that your reservation is still a month away, you do have time to wait it out to give more time for them to let us know if changes for banking will be allowed.

But, as mentioned since you don’t have terms as to what would happen, you may have to try to be creative with coming to a settlement if the resort is still closed, especially if you didn’t state it was non refundable.

IMO, as long as the resort opens, then you can deliver the reservation and won’t need to do anything.

 

[badeacon]

I received email today from David's asking me to return the 70% or allow them to re-rent points and all apply for a credit to the renter for future use.
So choices are 1: return 70% to David's and they say they will add back their 30%, all for future credit.
David's gets the money and renter gets to use all their money paid via David's in future. I receive my points back( they do not expire until Feb. 2021) and re-rent them. This would have to be most likely in the fall and January, most demand for DVC and much more demand this year probably with all the cancellations this spring.
2: keep the 70% and let David's re-rent points to put in credit account for renter. David's keeps the 30% and the re-rented points would probably add back more to the credit account than originally paid by renter. David's makes more money and renter is made whole , but I only receive 70% of what I was owed. I also spent time booking and making changes to initial rental and the re-rent will also require more of my time.

I have replied to email asking for further explanation of the re-renting process but have not heard back.
My initial thoughts are to either return the money but keep $50 for my time or if keep money and re-rent then I would be paid 30% of the re-rental.
The email did not mention rebooking , which I would be willing to do.

 

[Sandisw]

I received email today from David's asking me to return the 70% or allow them to re-rent points and all apply for a credit to the renter for future use.
So choices are 1: return 70% to David's and they say they will add back their 30%, all for future credit.
David's gets the money and renter gets to use all their money paid via David's in future. I receive my points back( they do not expire until Feb. 2021) and re-rent them. This would have to be most likely in the fall and January, most demand for DVC and much more demand this year probably with all the cancellations this spring.
2: keep the 70% and let David's re-rent points to put in credit account for renter. David's keeps the 30% and the re-rented points would probably add back more to the credit account than originally paid by renter. David's makes more money and renter is made whole , but I only receive 70% of what I was owed. I also spent time booking and making changes to initial rental and the re-rent will also require more of my time.

I have replied to email asking for further explanation of the re-renting process but have not heard back.
My initial thoughts are to either return the money but keep $50 for my time or if keep money and re-rent then I would be paid 30% of the re-rental.
The email did not mention rebooking , which I would be willing to do.

So, I’m curious as to what the response would be if you said, “I’ll leave the reservation in place, let Disney cancel it, and keep the 70% and cut my losses.

I mean if you don’t return the money and don’t book a new reservation, what is his plan? How does he intend to force owners into a choice.

 

[starry_solo]

So, I’m curious as to what the response would be if you said, “I’ll leave the reservation in place, let Disney cancel it, and keep the 70% and cut my losses.

I mean if you don’t return the money and don’t book a new reservation, what is his plan? How does he intend to force owners into a choice.

plus why wouldn’t he (Davi) just refund the renters all the money?

 

[DebbieB]

So, I’m curious as to what the response would be if you said, “I’ll leave the reservation in place, let Disney cancel it, and keep the 70% and cut my losses.

I mean if you don’t return the money and don’t book a new reservation, what is his plan? How does he intend to force owners into a choice.

I would be tempted to try to test that. Complicating this is the fact the Davids is Canadian, which would complicate a legal proceeding.

I really don’t see DVC changing their mind on rebanking, members are already complaining that there is little availability to rebook. This is really going to show the importance of home resort and use year. I was lucky, I have an April use year with an April Riviera reservation made with current points that I just cancelled. I plan to bank and book BWV for April next year at 11 months. Maybe I can get Riviera back at 7 months but if not, I can live with BWV. People I feel bad for is people who got talked into Aulani with plans to stay at WDW.

 

[davper]

I received email today from David's asking me to return the 70% or allow them to re-rent points and all apply for a credit to the renter for future use.
So choices are 1: return 70% to David's and they say they will add back their 30%, all for future credit.
David's gets the money and renter gets to use all their money paid via David's in future. I receive my points back( they do not expire until Feb. 2021) and re-rent them. This would have to be most likely in the fall and January, most demand for DVC and much more demand this year probably with all the cancellations this spring.
2: keep the 70% and let David's re-rent points to put in credit account for renter. David's keeps the 30% and the re-rented points would probably add back more to the credit account than originally paid by renter. David's makes more money and renter is made whole , but I only receive 70% of what I was owed. I also spent time booking and making changes to initial rental and the re-rent will also require more of my time.

I have replied to email asking for further explanation of the re-renting process but have not heard back.
My initial thoughts are to either return the money but keep $50 for my time or if keep money and re-rent then I would be paid 30% of the re-rental.
The email did not mention rebooking , which I would be willing to do.

I was angered by this same email they sent me. My points will be a complete loss and they want me to return the money while they don't give any of it back to the renter. The renter gets a credit and David's gets use of the money until credit is used. If credit is used. While some of us owners can go scratch.

 

[davper]

plus why wouldn’t he (Davi) just refund the renters all the money?

By doing it this way, David's doesn't have to take any loss and maybe make money on the deal if the renter doesn't use the credit. At the very least they can earn interest on the money until the credit is used.

 

[Marionnette]

plus why wouldn’t he (Davi) just refund the renters all the money?

Cash flow.

He would have to give the renter back the $4.50/point that he took off the top. This way, he keeps his commission, plus holds on to 100% of what the owner would have gotten paid while issuing a credit that has undefined terms.

 

[Sandisw]

I would be tempted to try to test that. Complicating this is the fact the Davids is Canadian, which would complicate a legal proceeding.

I really don’t see DVC changing their mind on rebanking, members are already complaining that there is little availability to rebook. This is really going to show the importance of home resort and use year. I was lucky, I have an April use year with an April Riviera reservation made with current points that I just cancelled. I plan to bank and book BWV for April next year at 11 months. Maybe I can get Riviera back at 7 months but if not, I can live with BWV. People I feel bad for is people who got talked into Aulani with plans to stay at WDW.

Yes, I agree that this has really opened up things no one really thought of in so many areas. One of the reasons I bought 3 UYs and deal with it was so I never traveled late in the UY.

I also am not sure I’ll get back into the rental game again. Transfers are so much less complicated.

 

[davper]

I found this statement on David's site:

you get your money regardless of whether or not the guest checks into the resort.

As we are learning, this isn't true.

I hope Disboards reconsiders them as an advertiser. David's is really shooting themselves in the foot in the way they are communicating and handling this.

 

[Sandisw]

I found this statement on David's site:

As we are learning, this isn't true.

I hope Disboards reconsiders them as an advertiser. David's is really shooting themselves in the foot in the way they are communicating and handling this.

Yup. And what I’ve learned is that what I may believe is implied in any statement may no longer be defined that way later.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

I hope Disboards reconsiders them as an advertiser. David's is really shooting themselves in the foot in the way they are communicating and handling this.

With the last round of emails that went out to owners, I completely agree. While I think Davids has tried to make as many people as whole as possible, it's pretty obvious that self preservation is the ultimate consideration. With the recent indicatioon that resorts could be closed until end of May, this situation isn't going to get better for David...it's going to get worse.

I would love to see Disboards fire Davids as a sponsor and enter the DVC rental game themselves. I think it's a huge revenue stream that is just sitting there waiting to be had. I think even if David's makes it out of this, the risk factor of using a Canadian intermediary has been exposed. It's just too cumbersome and costly legally gain relief from him...other than a charge back for renters.

 

[marie1981]

We are all going thru a situation that nobody could expect, and this is worldwide. Many many companies are strugling to stay alive , and this is especially everything around travelling. Airlines companies employees are temporarely out jobs because those companies only gets cancellations, no reservations.. same for hotels and I can go no and on... I rented points thru David's for april. He contacted me to see If I can refund, I said no, but I am more than happy to have him rent 70% of the points to help reimburst the customer. I was paid, I consider those points not mine anymore. If I can help a company like David's stay in business I will... I rented many times with him before and had great customer services, I want him to stay in business and help their employees keep their jobs. I reapeat, nobody saw that situation coming and we all have to do our part to help. By accepting to re-rent the points, I am just beeing fair and not trying to take advantage of the situation... Of course, this could be different for people who will loose points that are going to expire, but, since Disney is the one who closed the resorts, he could be a little more flexible.. What would you do if it was your company ? .

 

[tallguy001]

David has been too busy partying in Hawaii to care about you losing your money.

https://www.facebook.com/dvcRequest

 

[Bing Showei]

We are all going thru a situation that nobody could expect, and this is worldwide. Many many companies are strugling to stay alive , and this is especially everything around travelling. Airlines companies employees are temporarely out jobs because those companies only gets cancellations, no reservations.. same for hotels and I can go no and on... I rented points thru David's for april. He contacted me to see If I can refund, I said no, but I am more than happy to have him rent 70% of the points to help reimburst the customer. I was paid, I consider those points not mine anymore. If I can help a company like David's stay in business I will... I rented many times with him before and had great customer services, I want him to stay in business and help their employees keep their jobs. I reapeat, nobody saw that situation coming and we all have to do our part to help. By accepting to re-rent the points, I am just beeing fair and not trying to take advantage of the situation... Of course, this could be different for people who will loose points that are going to expire, but, since Disney is the one who closed the resorts, he could be a little more flexible.. What would you do if it was your company ? .

For years, David’s made money handsomely by offering assurances to owners that they were insulated from risk and that this protection was worth the lower value assumed for those points versus renting privately.

With this latest communication, it’s clear David’s is looking to simply stay solvent. As a renter, I would have zero faith that they will be around in 6 months to use the credit. As an owner, I have zero confidence that returning any money will be anything more than cushioning the landing for David’s when they eventually crash into bankruptcy.

Owners should offer David’s the same house credit for future booking that he has graciously extended to his renters from whom he’s collected $19/point and paid the owner only $10/point. 70% of owners’ points are now available to David’s to make a future booking (subject to availability).

I understand the desire to save the business, but creating a Ponzi scheme to do it will drive away the bloodline of whatever remains of that business.

 

[Marionnette]

What would you do if it was your company ? .

Well, I wouldn’t want to piss off my suppliers. If my suppliers were to refuse to do business with me because I screwed them over, it wouldn’t matter how many customers walked in the door. I wouldn’t have anything to sell them.