Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Amymouse13]

People did sign a Contract with a no refunds or changes allowed clause and were advised to take out insurance to cover unexpected changes. If renters had this they could recover potential losses.

Right, but like for me both my reservations are currently cancelled for mid April even if I had travel insurance my reservation is cancelled...

 

[vnovabri]

I have a reservation rented for the end of April and it's not yet cancelled. David's email also said not to cancel the reservation.1 I asked David's if my renters would like to rebook, to avoid having to deal with refunding then getting a new rental in place to get another 70% transferred to me but have not heard back. This would also give me a jump before the mad rush to get a summer reservation. My banking deadline is also end of April, although most of the rented points are unbankable. I am sort of stuck in limbo.

 

[Amymouse13]

I have a reservation rented for the end of April and it's not yet cancelled. David's email also said not to cancel the reservation.1 I asked David's if my renters would like to rebook, to avoid having to deal with refunding then getting a new rental in place to get another 70% transferred to me but have not heard back. This would also give me a jump before the mad rush to get a summer reservation. My banking deadline is also end of April, although most of the rented points are unbankable. I am sort of stuck in limbo.

From reading this thread doesn't sound like David's plans to offer that to renters and instead a voucher - not necessarily linked to previous owner. As a renter this is what I was told too... That they are working on a voucher program but it may take some time...

Someone yesterday said their phone lines were down... Idk what's deal with that.

 

[starry_solo]

I have a reservation rented for the end of April and it's not yet cancelled. David's email also said not to cancel the reservation.1 I asked David's if my renters would like to rebook, to avoid having to deal with refunding then getting a new rental in place to get another 70% transferred to me but have not heard back. This would also give me a jump before the mad rush to get a summer reservation. My banking deadline is also end of April, although most of the rented points are unbankable. I am sort of stuck in limbo.

Disney will be cancelling the reservation for you, but if I were you, I would cancel it myself so that whatever points can be banked, can be done quickly, before the banking deadline.

I would also send an email to David's and let him know how many points you have that are unbankable (although he should know that already) and when they expire (again, he should know that already)

 

[yankeesfan123]

I hate this voucher idea. As a renter of points in August, which I believe will be canceled, what good is a voucher to me when David’s declares bankruptcy or just goes out of business? He’s not going to survive this.

 

[Sandisw]

People did sign a Contract with a no refunds or changes allowed clause and were advised to take out insurance to cover unexpected changes. If renters had this they could recover potential losses.

That is not really fair based on reports from renters who did get travel insurance and either found out it’s not covered, or having trouble getting CFAR insurance to cover it.

I also don’t think anyone even thought about a resort closure. Had it been written in the contract, some renters would not have taken the risk,

Without it, we are left with something implied

 

[yankeesfan123]

That is not really fair based on reports from renters who did get travel insurance and either found out it’s not covered, or having trouble getting CFAR insurance to cover it.

I also don’t think anyone even thought about a resort closure. Had it been written in the contract, some renters would not have taken the risk,

Without it, we are left with something implied

The contract also said the renter would be renting points. If Disney cancels and returns the points to the owner (regardless of their use year or if they then become useless to the owner), the renter was no longer rented any points.

 

[Sandisw]

I hate this voucher idea. As a renter of points in August, which I believe will be canceled, what good is a voucher to me when David’s declares bankruptcy or just goes out of business? He’s not going to survive this.

We don’t yet know about August and I am holding out hope that it will go.

I also have a renter checking in then as well, and plan to reach out to them if there is still an issue with the broker.

Your owner may do the same as right now, most are not happy with you.

 

[ziravan]

The contract also said the renter would be renting points. If Disney cancels and returns the points to the owner (regardless of their use year or if they then become useless to the owner), the renter was no longer rented any points.

Rather, the renter now has worthless points.

Similar to a gift card. If I sell you a gift card 11 months before it expires, to a restaurant that is always booked at least 2 months in advance, you’re never going to convince me that that card has the same value 6 weeks before it expires. More importantly, you aren’t going to convince me as an owner that that’s my problem not yours.

The renter bought a reservation. The owner sold the potential value in the points. For many, both are now gone.

Its just not so simple to say, not my problem. Since the owner has 70% of the transaction already, this argument doesn’t seem well-suited to finding a reasonable solution.

If I were an owner being told, suck it up, buttercup, my response would be - no, turnip. Good luck squeezing me.

 

[McCrae]

That is not really fair based on reports from renters who did get travel insurance and either found out it’s not covered, or having trouble getting CFAR insurance to cover it.

I also don’t think anyone even thought about a resort closure. Had it been written in the contract, some renters would not have taken the risk,

Without it, we are left with something implied

I agree it’s a hard nosed way to look at things. If it came to a court case this would be the defence used.

 

[McCrae]

Right, but like for me both my reservations are currently cancelled for mid April even if I had travel insurance my reservation is cancelled...

Insurance would payout for uncoverable losses.

 

[ziravan]

Insurance would payout for uncoverable losses.

The cancel for any reason CFAR policies are apparently saying no coverage because the renter didn’t cancel, WDW did and therefore, the renter has recourse under the contract for non-performance.

With these broker contracts, that’s very debatable hence the length of this thread.

 

[CraigInPA]

I'm discussing the contract between the owner and the renter. That contact cannot be fulfilled. The owner has indeed suffered a loss of the value of the property the owner wanted to rent. But the contract between the owner and the renter doesn't provide for compensation to the owner in the event of frustration.

The contract between the "owner" and "renter" also includes the broker. It's a 3 way contract. You're again over simplifying the issue. You are correct that the contract does not provide compensation to the owner in the event the contract cannot be fulfilled, nor does it contemplate the agreement cannot be fulfilled. You'll note that the contract puts the entire loss upon the renter with the "no refunds, no changes" wording. Because the party that drafted the contract did not include a force majeure, it's clear that they meant the contract to be irrevocable. All 3 parties "signed" under the explicit understanding of "no refunds, no changes". By the strict wording of the contract, the renter is going to suffer the entire loss.

However, the renter also has a separate agreement with the broker, which cannot be fulfilled either. The broker has stated that agreement is "void", probably because it shifts the loss to the broker because it doesn't make reference to points, but instead it talks about a reservation. So, while the 3 way agreement puts the loss on the renter, the broker is responsible for the loss under the 2 party renter-broker agreement because the reservation disappeared through no fault of any of the 3 parties. As the party drafting that agreement, the broker cannot claim incompetence in drafting the agreement, or an unconscionable agreement, so they are stuck with it.

Between the broker and the owner is another agreement, which is clear that the broker is paying for points converted into a reservation. It is also clear that that agreement is still in force, leaving the broker on the hook to pay the owner regardless of whether the reservation is cancelled.

 

[yankeesfan123]

In my v

Rather, the renter now has worthless points.

Similar to a gift card. If I sell you a gift card 11 months before it expires, to a restaurant that is always booked at least 2 months in advance, you’re never going to convince me that that card has the same value 6 weeks before it expires. More importantly, you aren’t going to convince me as an owner that that’s my problem not yours.

The renter bought a reservation. The owner sold the potential value in the points. For many, both are now gone.

Its just not so simple to say, not my problem. Since the owner has 70% of the transaction already, this argument doesn’t seem well-suited to finding a reasonable solution.

If I were an owner being told, suck it up, buttercup, my response would be - no, turnip. Good luck squeezing me.

In my view, the owner has the useless points. I agreed to rent points for very specific dates. This did not occur (for arguments sake). The points were put back into the owners account by Disney. The owner has the points and the money. The renter has no points and lost their money.

That being said, it seems like all owners and renters are doing their best to help each other out. Hopefully brokers don’t get in the way.

 

[yankeesfan123]

We don’t yet know about August and I am holding out hope that it will go.

I also have a renter checking in then as well, and plan to reach out to them if there is still an issue with the broker.

Your owner may do the same as right now, most are not happy with you.

Are you my owner?!

 

[Sandisw]

Are you my owner?!

Lol. No idea. It’s a PVB reservation.

 

[tallguy001]

But they signed a contract that cannot be performed - therefore the contract no longer exists. Whether it says it is "refundable" or not is irrelevant.

 

[PrincessNelly]

People did sign a Contract with a no refunds or changes allowed clause and were advised to take out insurance to cover unexpected changes. If renters had this they could recover potential losses.

Insurance is not as cut & dry as you believe it to be, especially in a pandemic.

I've also said it before, but IMO "no refunds" is not the same as a contract not fulfilled.

 

[Dentam]

Following this thread since I rented points through David's to stay at the Boardwalk Labor Day week.

 

[ziravan]

But they signed a contract that cannot be performed - therefore the contract no longer exists. Whether it says it is "refundable" or not is irrelevant.

The owner’s contract with the broker HAS been performed for these dates. That contract was to make the reservation and not do anything to cause it to cancel due to your own negligence.

Check. And Check.

I think it’s a silly argument that the owner is an extension of DVCMC but even that argument has sailed. The State of Florida is not allowing check ins. In any case, none of this involves culpability - negligence- on the part of the owner, which was an expressed element of the contract.

Whatever deal the renter had with the broker - the owner is a non-party to that deal. This is why David was telling renters that their contract was void yet telling owners to “follow their hearts” and not their contracts. Both can be and apparently are true at once. The renter may no longer have an enforceable contract, but the owner does and that contract was fulfilled.

If I were an owner here, I would not refund to David’s so that he can issue a worthless travel voucher. I also wouldn’t rebook for a 3rd party. I’d either agree to refund directly to the renter (assuming my points still had some value) or rebook for the renter. If I rebooked directly for the renter, I’d eat the 30%, if through the broker, I would not rebook without being paid in full.