Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Friendlyadvice2]

We have had multiple really good experiences with them in the past, and they were really great to deal with before this. All the more disappointing to see how poorly this is all being handled.

........and so exists the House of Cards that is only exposed once the right wind blows...........

 

[Krandor]

........and so exists the House of Cards that is only exposed once the right wind blows...........

Yep. I think the number of owners wanting to use them in the future is going to go way down.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Yep. I think the number of owners wanting to use them in the future is going to go way down.

Yup, both owners and renters.

I know a lot of people think this will be forgotten in favour of cheaper prices once this blows over, but I really don’t think so. My guess is they rely a lot on repeat business and online word of mouth, both which are going to take a massive hit here.

And as an aside, I was kind of shocked when I saw how much more expensive my room was for the same dates in 2021. It had gone up with David’s almost $100 a night from what we paid for 2020. It’s only about a 30% savings off current Disney rack rates, but how much do we think those will actually increase this coming year given the circumstances? That 30% is the kind of discount Disney currently offers, never mind what they’ll be offering after this all shakes out. Who is going to take on risk for minimal savings? At the very least I think they’re going to end up having to price drop to draw the risk taking bargain hunters in.

 

[Minniemoo15]

Yup, both owners and renters.

I know a lot of people think this will be forgotten in favour of cheaper prices once this blows over, but I really don’t think so. My guess is they rely a lot on repeat business and online word of mouth, both which are going to take a massive hit here.

And as an aside, I was kind of shocked when I saw how much more expensive my room was for the same dates in 2021. It had gone up with David’s almost $100 a night from what we paid for 2020. It’s only about a 30% savings off current Disney rack rates, but how much do we think those will actually increase this coming year given the circumstances? That 30% is the kind of discount Disney currently offers, never mind what they’ll be offering after this all shakes out. Who is going to take on risk for minimal savings? At the very least I think they’re going to end up having to price drop to draw the risk taking bargain hunters in.

That's another thing - the cost savings of renting has be pretty significant to take the risks, especially after this.
In 2019, we rented points through Davids for BCV. My inlaws didn't want to take the risks and booked at BC directly through Disney. When all was said and done (after Disney promos, etc), they only paid around $40 more per night than we did. I would pay that in a heartbeat for the peace of mind of a fully refundable vacation.

We since have become DVC members ourselves and I am especially glad to have control over my own reservations.

 

[Sandisw]

That's another thing - the cost savings of renting has be pretty significant to take the risks, especially after this.
In 2019, we rented points through Davids for BCV. My inlaws didn't want to take the risks and booked at BC directly through Disney. When all was said and done (after Disney promos, etc), they only paid around $40 more per night than we did. I would pay that in a heartbeat for the peace of mind of a fully refundable vacation.

We since have become DVC members ourselves and I am especially glad to have control over my own reservations.

Given the hit Disney is taking as well, I expect pretty good cash promos in the next year, making renting, even less of a deal, especially when you add in the cost of travel insurance to protect yourself from resort closing or anything out of your control.

 

[Minniemoo15]

Given the hit Disney is taking as well, I expect pretty good cash promos in the next year, making renting, even less of a deal, especially when you add in the cost of travel insurance to protect yourself from resort closing or anything out of your control.

Exactly. Rental prices have risen so much in the last few years. This was great for me as a new owner who had extra points to rent, but I don’t think it’s sustainable going forward. In 2018 we paid $300/night to rent points at BCV , 2019 was 340$/night, and i just looked at 2021 for fun - almost $400/night for the week we always travel. That’s a big jump.

 

[Krandor]

Yup, both owners and renters.

I know a lot of people think this will be forgotten in favour of cheaper prices once this blows over, but I really don’t think so. My guess is they rely a lot on repeat business and online word of mouth, both which are going to take a massive hit here.

I think there will be people willing to rent for deals but with the way owners are being asked to return all the money even if their points are now going to expire they may be less likely to want to do that. The no refunds was what protected owners and that is shown now to matter now making it much more of a risk for an owner to rent points through davids vs just doing it themselves. I think this move to ask for the money back from owners is going to come back and bite David's...and he is still going to have to show they can and will honor these travel vouchers which I think is going to be a problem down the line.

I think there will be a market for points renting but not sure it will be david's due to how they handled it, but if there is demand another company will come about to meet the demand and learn from what happened here.

 

[TheWheel]

The owner’s contract with the broker HAS been performed for these dates. That contract was to make the reservation and not do anything to cause it to cancel due to your own negligence.

Check. And Check.

I think it’s a silly argument that the owner is an extension of DVCMC but even that argument has sailed. The State of Florida is not allowing check ins. In any case, none of this involves culpability - negligence- on the part of the owner, which was an expressed element of the contract.

Whatever deal the renter had with the broker - the owner is a non-party to that deal. This is why David was telling renters that their contract was void yet telling owners to “follow their hearts” and not their contracts. Both can be and apparently are true at once. The renter may no longer have an enforceable contract, but the owner does and that contract was fulfilled.

If I were an owner here, I would not refund to David’s so that he can issue a worthless travel voucher. I also wouldn’t rebook for a 3rd party. I’d either agree to refund directly to the renter (assuming my points still had some value) or rebook for the renter. If I rebooked directly for the renter, I’d eat the 30%, if through the broker, I would not rebook without being paid in full.

The renters contract specifically states "...including but not limited to negligence..." which is a very different thing than you have stated above.

I'm wondering why you'd feel its a silly argument that a deeded owner is an extension of the ownership agent? When a timeshare property is owned by deed (deeded ownership), it is considered “real” property and you pay property taxes on it. You are not an owner of points but a shared owner of the property. Therefore the closure of the property is an act by the "owner".Things may have changed since but the first round of cancelled reservations were made with no government rule to not allow check-ins. Therefore at least those early affected renter contract have not been fulfilled and they are due a refund. Now, where that refund comes from be it David's or the Owner themselves is another question.

 

[Krandor]

The number of confirmed rentals on the www.dvcrentalstore.com discount page is long and I just don't see people renting non-refundable/non-flexible travel right now.

Not a chance. I had a TA booked trip for star wars weekend which I cancelled and got my deposit back. Now with this free dining offerr they have I went on and did another TA booked trip for Sep that way it's done. Am I 100% Sure I'm going to want to go to Sep? no. Too many unknowns right now (when will they open, what will park looks like when they do, etc etc). However I'm fine with booking it because I know I can cancel if I want and/or change it to say marathon weekend. I only have a $200 deposit tied up (the same $200 that was tied up for my april trip).

Would I schedule that september trip through a dvc rental place where I had to pay all up front and had no ability to cancel/change? Not a chance in the world.

 

[Amymouse13]

As a renter I'm doing chargebacks. My contract is with David's. He secured reservations for me that are now cancelled so I should get refund. I'm not hunting down the owner.

I'm unsure when to look at rebooking though as I'm not sure when this whole coronavirus will blow over and not see sine wave like reoccurrences. The current promo is only til September for dining and I'm not sold this is going to blow over by then.

When we rebook as our tickets are not refundable, it won't be to rent points.

 

[Applebiscuit]

As a renter I'm doing chargebacks. My contract is with David's. He secured reservations for me that are now cancelled so I should get refund. I'm not hunting down the owner.

I'm unsure when to look at rebooking though as I'm not sure when this whole coronavirus will blow over and not see sine wave like reoccurrences. The current promo is only til September for dining and I'm not sold this is going to blow over by then.

When we rebook as our tickets are not refundable, it won't be to rent points.

Can you only do chargebacks if you purchased with a Credit Card? I am new to this, and payed for my rental points with a debit card

 

[tallguy001]

As a renter I'm doing chargebacks. My contract is with David's. He secured reservations for me that are now cancelled so I should get refund. I'm not hunting down the owner.

I'm unsure when to look at rebooking though as I'm not sure when this whole coronavirus will blow over and not see sine wave like reoccurrences. The current promo is only til September for dining and I'm not sold this is going to blow over by then.

When we rebook as our tickets are not refundable, it won't be to rent points.

Chargeback is the only way to go. David makes it difficult to for owners and renters to connect. Owners shouldn't be expected to pay $$ back. Renters paid David and that is where they should get their money back. No need for renters to parse the contract language.

 

[tallguy001]

Can you only do chargebacks if you purchased with a Credit Card? I am new to this, and payed for my rental points with a debit card

Explain your situation to your bank. Each bank may have different rules, but I am guessing they will work closely with their valued customers on something like this.

 

[waltonmkb]

I rented points for May. It hasn't been officially closed yet so I'm waiting in limbo. I am planning on doing a chargeback when my reservation is officially canceled. What happens if he goes bankrupt in the meantime? Can you still successfully do a chargeback if they go bankrupt?

 

[Matty B13]

I am new to this, and payed for my rental points with a debit card

Just a word of advice, you really shouldn't use a debit card for purchases like this, I know some people like to use it as a budgeting manager, but credit cards offer you much more protection.

 

[yankeesfan123]

I rented points for May. It hasn't been officially closed yet so I'm waiting in limbo. I am planning on doing a chargeback when my reservation is officially canceled. What happens if he goes bankrupt in the meantime? Can you still successfully do a chargeback if they go bankrupt?

ding ding. David’s only way out of this is bankruptcy or the equivalent up in Canada. Don’t be surprised if a “Davidina’s Vacation Rentals” opens shortly after...

 

[Cyberc1978]

“Davidina’s Vacation Rentals”

 

[tallguy001]

I rented points for May. It hasn't been officially closed yet so I'm waiting in limbo. I am planning on doing a chargeback when my reservation is officially canceled. What happens if he goes bankrupt in the meantime? Can you still successfully do a chargeback if they go bankrupt?

Unsure of Canadian bankruptcy laws. In the US, an "automatic stay" is put into place once the bankruptcy is filed. Once filed, creditors cannot pursue any claims. All creditors will eventually be contacted by the bankruptcy trustee to affirm the debt. Then it is a waiting game.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

I really wish I hadn’t got two more rentals lined up with David’s at the end of the year, the April one is enough of a worry!

 

[MICKIMINI]

I really wish I hadn’t got two more rentals lined up with David’s at the end of the year, the April one is enough of a worry!

I'm in the same boat with two as well. I won't be "free" of him until January...if he's even still around.