Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[CraigInPA]

All that has been established is that it’s a complex matter. It’s not clear if anyone has liability. Good chance renters will be fully refunded through credit card chargeback. Owners potentially lose 30% and David’s are likely lose lose 70%.

Actually David's would lose the money paid to the owner, assuming the owner refuses to refund based upon their points now being worthless, PLUS the full amount paid to him by the owner through the credit card charge back. It's a double whammy for David's.

 

[CraigInPA]

I know a lot of people think this will be forgotten in favour of cheaper prices once this blows over, but I really don’t think so. My guess is they rely a lot on repeat business and online word of mouth, both which are going to take a massive hit here.

Don't forget social media. Every time someone mentions David's on facebook or suggests him for someone interested in renting points, someone else will chime in their horror story over this episode.

 

[Bing Showei]

I finally got tired of waiting and reached out to my renter. She spoke with someone at David's back on March 13th about rebooking in November and they confirmed availability and said they would take care of it. The new reservation is one point different from the existing one. She never heard from them again and was so relieved to get my email. Her reservation was cancelled by Disney, so the points were returned to me. I reached out to David's again....no response, so I went ahead and booked the new reservation. Since David's is aware of the renter's new booking dates, I felt comfortable rebooking it. The renter was so relieved because this stay was a couple of days prior to a cruise (that they already rebooked). Now I just need David's to update the rental agreement and we're all good.

While this was a decent and generous thing to do, I would caution other owners to think long and hard about going this route as there are serious implications.

On the negative side, by canceling whatever reservation an owner has (as opposed to waiting for Disney to do so), the owner will be in violation of the terms of the contract between the owner and David’s and expose themselves to liabilities that would require at least the return of all monies.

On a potentially positive side, by canceling whatever reservation an owner has in place, a renter would then have a case to demand a refund as the owner failed to hold up their side of the agreement. This is likely the reason why David’s has been curiously explicit and repeatedly insistent that the owners must NOT cancel their reservation. In all likelihood, that would be grounds for a renter refund (less David's commission, of course).

All that said, if owners started doing this, I suspect that will only expedite David's eventual demise. And despite an owner opening a new avenue for their renter to become whole, that avenue will shut down instantly with David's bankruptcy declaration, and as an owner, you would still owe that money back to David's.

The reality at this point is that David’s is going down the course of insolvency, and no one should have any faith that when it comes time to either collect the remaining 30% of their booking, or to cash in on their travel credit that David's will be around to honor either. As we all sit around trying to figure out the right thing to do, David’s realizes this and every decision they are making is to insulate themselves from this inevitability.

 

[CraigInPA]

Unsure of Canadian bankruptcy laws. In the US, an "automatic stay" is put into place once the bankruptcy is filed. Once filed, creditors cannot pursue any claims. All creditors will eventually be contacted by the bankruptcy trustee to affirm the debt. Then it is a waiting game.

And, based upon the number of potential creditors, could take a considerable amount of time.

 

[Amymouse13]

And, based upon the number of potential creditors, could take a considerable amount of time.

Right, most credit cards say it can take up to 90 days to resolve disputed charges

 

[wench]

I had rented one night for a stay this coming Sunday. I just returned the money to David’s today in order to refund the renter. I don’t believe their contract allows them force refunds in this particular situation, but they’re definitely doing their best to collect them where they can.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

I hate to say it, but I will not make another reservation until I receive payment for the remaining 30% for the April Rental (David’s are now implying that I will get the 30% after I make a new reservation, not the new check in date) than at least I know, that I can honour the reservation for that (new) renter even if David’s go under. I was fully paid in the end for the March rental, so same holds true for any new reservation I am asked to make with those points. I am already bracing myself to let the 3 rentals for December/January complete with just the 70% already received if David’s does not exist by then. I would not cancel, knowing those renters paid in full for their vacations. At least the 70% funded my dues and this summer‘s flights, which we might even get to use, you never know!

 

[yankeesfan123]

I had rented one night for a stay this coming Sunday. I just returned the money to David’s today in order to refund the renter. I don’t believe their contract allows them force refunds in this particular situation, but they’re definitely doing their best to collect them where they can.

but David’s isn’t refunding the renter. David’s is giving them a voucher (which might be useless if they fold), and then will force the renter to pay more if, for example, the renter books identical dates next year. David’s still keeps the actual money.

 

[badeacon]

I hate to say it, but I will not make another reservation until I receive payment for the remaining 30% for the April Rental (David’s are now implying that I will get the 30% after I make a new reservation, not the new check in date) than at least I know, that I can honour the reservation for that (new) renter even if David’s go under. I was fully paid in the end for the March rental, so same holds true for any new reservation I am asked to make with those points. I am already bracing myself to let the 3 rentals for December/January complete with just the 70% already received if David’s does not exist by then. I would not cancel, knowing those renters paid in full for their vacations. At least the 70% funded my dues and this summer‘s flights, which we might even get to use, you never know!

It must depend on who you correspond with at David's. I have been repeatedly been told that would not receive the remaining 30% until checkin of the re-rent. I have little faith would receive that 30%.

 

[CarolMN]

Don't forget social media. Every time someone mentions David's on facebook or suggests him for someone interested in renting points, someone else will chime in their horror story over this episode.

What are the other brokers doing? Haven't seen posts about any other brokers.

 

[Cyberc1978]

What are the other brokers doing? Haven't seen posts about any other brokers.

I read in a Facebook Group that *******.com had issued a refund to all impacted renters.

There was no word on how that impacted the owners.

 

[fsjking]

but David’s isn’t refunding the renter. David’s is giving them a voucher (which might be useless if they fold), and then will force the renter to pay more if, for example, the renter books identical dates next year. David’s still keeps the actual money.

Then David's would have to take that actual money and pay the owner that books the voucher stay for that renter. He doesn't just get to keep it.

 

[yankeesfan123]

Then David's would have to take that actual money and pay the owner that books the voucher stay for that renter. He doesn't just get to keep it.

... except he keeps the up charge because he charges more now.

 

[wench]

but David’s isn’t refunding the renter. David’s is giving them a voucher (which might be useless if they fold), and then will force the renter to pay more if, for example, the renter books identical dates next year. David’s still keeps the actual money.

I didn’t realize they weren’t refunding. Although it wouldn’t have affected my decision. I rented points out because I forgot to cancel a waitlist & it came through. The points were borrowed from 2021, so I’ll still have time to use them myself. My conscience is clear that I didn’t keep someone else’s money for something that I could no longer, in good faith, provide.

 

[Sandisw]

Then David's would have to take that actual money and pay the owner that books the voucher stay for that renter. He doesn't just get to keep it.

My issue is that if the owner is being asked to either refund or offer points for rent again, it should be for the original renter, not a future one. In essence, he is asking the owner to void the original contract that was made between himself, the renter, and the owner, and replace it with a new contract with a new renter.

If he were asking me to void my contract with the renter by sending back the funds, those funds should go to that renter. If he were asking me to modify my contract with the renter to allow a change...ie: making new reservation...then it should be for the original renter.

I realize this is what me may feel he needs to do to save his business, but as someone with a contract, I have lost all faith in his business model and think it is a shady way to do things.

 

[yankeesfan123]

I didn’t realize they weren’t refunding. Although it wouldn’t have affected my decision. I rented points out because I forgot to cancel a waitlist & it came through. The points were borrowed from 2021, so I’ll still have time to use them myself. My conscience is clear that I didn’t keep someone else’s money for something that I could no longer, in good faith, provide.

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to make you feel like the bad guy. I just wanted to point out that David’s isn’t doing the great service some people think.

 

[Sandisw]

I didn’t realize they weren’t refunding. Although it wouldn’t have affected my decision. I rented points out because I forgot to cancel a waitlist & it came through. The points were borrowed from 2021, so I’ll still have time to use them myself. My conscience is clear that I didn’t keep someone else’s money for something that I could no longer, in good faith, provide.

It definitely is great that you returned it. It is just sad that it is not your renter that gets the benefit of your kindness. It is David's. That renter could now end up with a worthless travel voucher, instead of the money you were paid, and returned.

 

[fsjking]

... except he keeps the up charge because he charges more now.

... except that he increased owner payout when he raised prices. The increase was to entice more owners to rent with him.

My issue is that if the owner is being asked to either refund or offer points for rent again, it should be for the original renter, not a future one. In essence, he is asking the owner to void the original contract that was made between himself, the renter, and the owner, and replace it with a new contract with a new renter.

If he were asking me to void my contract with the renter by sending back the funds, those funds should go to that renter. If he were asking me to modify my contract with the renter to allow a change...ie: making new reservation...then it should be for the original renter.

I realize this is what me may feel he needs to do to save his business, but as someone with a contract, I have lost all faith in his business model and think it is a shady way to do things.

Oh by no means am I defending their actions. Theres lot's here that's shady. Just this narrative that people are trying to sell that he gets to keep the money refunded by the owners just isn't accurate.

 

[Sandisw]

... except that he increased owner payout when he raised prices. The increase was to entice more owners to rent with him.



Oh by no means am I defending their actions. Theres lot's here that's shady. Just this narrative that people are trying to sell that he gets to keep the money refunded by the owners just isn't accurate.

But in essence he does if the renter with the travel voucher doesn't use it. This entire system of him not keeping the money is dependent on those travel vouchers being cashed in. The chances that they all will, given the nature of DVC availability, and the need for owners renting, IMO, isn't going to be a high percentage. So, he will get to keep some of that money.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Oh by no means am I defending their actions. Theres lot's here that's shady. Just this narrative that people are trying to sell that he gets to keep the money refunded by the owners just isn't accurate.

It’s a little bit true though. If the business goes under before the renter can use the credit, it’s his. If due to a number of reasons traveling again to even use the credit is not possibly for the renter it’s his again too.

The only reasons I can think of to not pass it along is to have it to use as needed immediately, to prevent from having to immediately pay out the remainder of the owners profit as well as his own cut as part of a refund, or in the hopes that it never actually gets used. None of those reasons are for anyones benefit but theirs. In the credit situation the immediate loser is the owner, renter may lose out in the future, David’s loses nothing. No shared pain. Im very frustrated that they won’t pass along the money to the renter when received. They should consider themselves lucky when the owner is even doing that, and maybe listen to their own advice to follow their conscience.