David's Vacation Club Rentals

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

The example given by DVC about the use of a website only muddies the policy in my eyes since there are many businesses , the DIS included, who support renting with a website (also included in that group are DRC and RCI among many others).
[/i]

What is "muddy" about David maintaining a website offering vacation point rental for profit? Its funny that you say it muddies the policy. To me it makes the policy crystal clear and I'm sure that DVC included to clarify their policy and not to make things muddier.

The example that DVC provided in the planner is quite telling and it fits David. David is a Member. He maintains a website offering rental of Vacation Points. And it is being done for a commercial purpose. There is no distinction in the planner regarding whether or not he is renting his points or someone elses points. That is a non-issue.

If David was operating in the US, my feeling is that he would have been shut down. In my eyes, he is not a legitimate business that the DIS should distance themselves from him. But it is your choice. And you have chosen to accept money from him. Does he pay in US currency or Canadien dollars? Either way, its money and money talks! I think that Davids sponsor dollars here on the DIS is what muddies the picture. Money does that.

The example provided in the planner- which you discount-plainly details what DVC considers to be commercial activity. The illustration supplied by DVC in the planner screams David Vacation Rentals! Why do you think they included that example in the planner anyway? I'd say that David is the prime reason why that example is included!

Maybe the DIS shouldn't have a rental board. After all ,you can't have a simple chair swap on the DIS anymore so why should you be involved in rentals? Of course, if David wanted to expand his "I'm in Canada so you can't touch me business"- he could start offering to match up people and chairs for their vacations. I would imagine the DIS would have no problem with that, right? David, are you listening?

David uses the his individual membership to run his for-profit business. Without being a member he couldn't run his business. He needs a membership number to call MS and get availability info from MS so that he can run his business. That is an abuse of his membership.

From the POS:

"Commercial Purpose" shall include a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Association, in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.
[/i]

I think that DVC could conclude that David is conducting a commercial enterprise. Are saying that David is not conducting a commercial enterprise?
Of course he is, and he is in violation of the POS and his membership should be terminated. Renting for Commerical purposes is expressly prohibited. David is doing that. I believe he is in violation.

I can only write to DVC with my concernss and I would encourage others to do the same. I mean I suppose that I could go to the Association meeting in December and ask directly about this situation. I wasn't planning on going but it might worth to see what kind of answer I get. Or perhaps someone can ask for me if I can't make it. Do you ever ask questions at these meetings, Doc?

 

[BYC]

What is "muddy" about David maintaining a website offering vacation point rental for profit? Its funny that you say it muddies the policy. To me it makes the policy crystal clear and I'm sure that DVC included to clarify their policy and not to make things muddier.

The example that DVC provided in the planner is quite telling and it fits David. David is a Member. He maintains a website offering rental of Vacation Points. And it is being done for a commercial purpose. There is no distinction in the planner regarding whether or not he is renting his points or someone elses points. That is a non-issue.

If David was operating in the US, my feeling is that he would have been shut down. In my eyes, he is not a legitimate business that the DIS should distance themselves from him. But it is your choice. And you have chosen to accept money from him. Does he pay in US currency or Canadien dollars? Either way, its money and money talks! I think that Davids sponsor dollars here on the DIS is what muddies the picture. Money does that.

The example provided in the planner- which you discount-plainly details what DVC considers to be commercial activity. The illustration supplied by DVC in the planner screams David Vacation Rentals! Why do you think they included that example in the planner anyway? I'd say that David is the prime reason why that example is included!

Maybe the DIS shouldn't have a rental board. After all ,you can't have a simple chair swap on the DIS anymore so why should you be involved in rentals? Of course, if David wanted to expand his "I'm in Canada so you can't touch me business"- he could start offering to match up people and chairs for their vacations. I would imagine the DIS would have no problem with that, right? David, are you listening?

David uses the his individual membership to run his for-profit business. Without being a member he couldn't run his business. He needs a membership number to call MS and get availability info from MS so that he can run his business. That is an abuse of his membership.




I think that DVC could conclude that David is conducting a commercial enterprise. Are saying that David is not conducting a commercial enterprise?
Of course he is, and he is in violation of the POS and his membership should be terminated. Renting for Commerical purposes is expressly prohibited. David is doing that. I believe he is in violation.

I can only write to DVC with my concernss and I would encourage others to do the same. I mean I suppose that I could go to the Association meeting in December and ask directly about this situation. I wasn't planning on going but it might worth to see what kind of answer I get. Or perhaps someone can ask for me if I can't make it. Do you ever ask questions at these meetings, Doc?

Curious....why are you making such a stink about a man that provides a service that is a win-win for all involved? Why do you care so much? Who cares where he is from? Who cares if he is making a profit? (I think that is still allowed in Canada...not so much here in the US anymore). More power to him. I have used his service, loved it, and will again in the future. I was happy, David was happy, and the people I rented the points from were happy. Why are you so freaked by all this?

 

[Chuck S]

What is "muddy" about David maintaining a website offering vacation point rental for profit? Its funny that you say it muddies the policy. To me it makes the policy crystal clear and I'm sure that DVC included to clarify their policy and not to make things muddier.

The example that DVC provided in the planner is quite telling and it fits David. David is a Member. He maintains a website offering rental of Vacation Points. And it is being done for a commercial purpose. There is no distinction in the planner regarding whether or not he is renting his points or someone elses points. That is a non-issue.

If David was operating in the US, my feeling is that he would have been shut down. In my eyes, he is not a legitimate business that the DIS should distance themselves from him. But it is your choice. And you have chosen to accept money from him. Does he pay in US currency or Canadien dollars? Either way, its money and money talks! I think that Davids sponsor dollars here on the DIS is what muddies the picture. Money does that.

The example provided in the planner- which you discount-plainly details what DVC considers to be commercial activity. The illustration supplied by DVC in the planner screams David Vacation Rentals! Why do you think they included that example in the planner anyway? I'd say that David is the prime reason why that example is included!

Maybe the DIS shouldn't have a rental board. After all ,you can't have a simple chair swap on the DIS anymore so why should you be involved in rentals? Of course, if David wanted to expand his "I'm in Canada so you can't touch me business"- he could start offering to match up people and chairs for their vacations. I would imagine the DIS would have no problem with that, right? David, are you listening?

David uses the his individual membership to run his for-profit business. Without being a member he couldn't run his business. He needs a membership number to call MS and get availability info from MS so that he can run his business. That is an abuse of his membership.




I think that DVC could conclude that David is conducting a commercial enterprise. Are saying that David is not conducting a commercial enterprise?
Of course he is, and he is in violation of the POS and his membership should be terminated. Renting for Commerical purposes is expressly prohibited. David is doing that. I believe he is in violation.

I can only write to DVC with my concernss and I would encourage others to do the same. I mean I suppose that I could go to the Association meeting in December and ask directly about this situation. I wasn't planning on going but it might worth to see what kind of answer I get. Or perhaps someone can ask for me if I can't make it. Do you ever ask questions at these meetings, Doc?

So, Robo, what steps (or new rules) do you think would be appropriate for Disney/DVC to take to shut down David's website? Do you think not allowing owners to rent their points at all would be appropriate? Or not allowing a member to call to check availability, instead saying a reservation HAS to be made with each call? How would they enforce it when going to a fully online system, as promised?

Would it be OK to operate a similar website if David weren't a member? As a non-member middle man, he'd simply have to get the member to call, check availability and book, rather than be able to check himself. And a non-member "broker" wouldn't be bound by any DVC rules. This still seems to be a case where the fix could be worse than the perceived problem.

 

[Tamar]

It was only the "Reservation Wanted" threads that were eliminated. No one is allowed to post a thread in that category, including Daddio.

Any DIS DVC member may post a "Point Transfer Wanted" or "Points for Rent" thread. If your read through Daddio's threads, you will see that he is not using the DIS to do spec rentals. And I do not think he is actually accepting transfers into a membership of his own, either. He is merely referring those interested to his website, where he has customers requesting specific dates. Those looking to transfer the points then would make the reservations based on the information David gives them.

Carol, I interpret David's post looking for points for specific resorts for reservations to be made next Jan, Feb, March to be no different from a "reservation wanted" thread, which individuals can't post. Sure, he put the word transfer in there, but it's clear he is looking for points to rent during those months. If I wanted a reservation at BLT next President's Day weekend, I can't post looking for those points, but David did for people who've contacted him, even if he didn't specify the exact dates. It seem not quite fair.

 

[mdinme]

I believe the concerns regarding DAVID have to do with hogging reservations. Most members join since they want to visit once even twice per year. David seems to have no real interest other than commercial. This is not allowed.

If i owned and made a call at 11 mo. to get my first choice rez and it wasn't available and I see David booking 16 rez's it clearly means I'm geting squeezed.

Maybe it would happen anyhow and I'd hate to see a guy get shut down trying to make a living, but owning at least implies you'll get to book what you want and where you want... People that buy at all 7 resorts and own 5000 points are impacting everyone else.

 

[Chuck S]

Maybe it would happen anyhow and I'd hate to see a guy get shut down trying to make a living, but owning at least implies you'll get to book what you want and where you want... People that buy at all 7 resorts and own 5000 points are impacting everyone else.

But so are people that own 100 to 160 points. The more smaller contracts there are, the more owners there are, and thus more competition for specific dates.

For instance if there are 150 owners with 1000 points versus 1500 with 100 points, and if 5% of overall owners want to book a studio for December 15th, that means there are 7 or 8 people with 1000 points trying to book that studio, but 75 owners with 100 points trying to book that studio for Dec. 15th.

 

[NewDCLGuy]

He maintains a website offering rental of Vacation Points. And it is being done for a commercial purpose. There is no distinction in the planner regarding whether or not he is renting his points or someone elses points. That is a non-issue.

If David was operating in the US, my feeling is that he would have been shut down.

Which is exactly what the DISBOARDS does. They are a commercial website offering rentals of vacation points. They are in the US. They haven't been shut down.

I can only write to DVC with my concernss and I would encourage others to do the same.

He runs a business that benefits member, renters and Disney. Why would I have any concerns about that? Why on earth would I want to shut down a man's, especially one that helps so many people.

Why do you?

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

So, Robo, what steps (or new rules) do you think would be appropriate for Disney/DVC to take to shut down David's website? Do you think not allowing owners to rent their points at all would be appropriate? Or not allowing a member to call to check availability, instead saying a reservation HAS to be made with each call? How would they enforce it when going to a fully online system, as promised?

Would it be OK to operate a similar website if David weren't a member? As a non-member middle man, he'd simply have to get the member to call, check availability and book, rather than be able to check himself. And a non-member "broker" wouldn't be bound by any DVC rules. This still seems to be a case where the fix could be worse than the perceived problem.

Chuck ,

These are great questions. I don't have any answers for you at present but I'll give it some thought and get back to you. But right now, it's a beautiful sunny day here and I'm going to spend some time outside enjoying it.

 

[Deb & Bill]

... He runs a business that benefits member, renters and Disney. ...

How does his business benefit Disney? They are not getting the price they advertise for their lodging. DVC would prefer that the points those rented villas represent go unused. Then they can earn the money to possibly go towards "breakage". Or at least pay for webcasts and Deevy See's salary.

I can see where it might benefit a member who doesn't want to take the time to find their own renter. And the renter who wants a cheap vacation.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

I don't have a problem with David brokering rentals, but I was distressed to see him posting on the Rent/Trade board soliciting points for specific resorts. To me, this is too close to the spec renting that has caused the change in rules where "rental wanted" posts aren't allowed. I question why he was able to post a "points wanted" thread when others can't.

So, you feel that a DIS advertiser should not be allowed to have the same benefits as any other DIS poster? He posted a "Transfer Wanted" thread asking for points at a specific DVC resort - just as many, many other posters have been allowed to post. He was not requesting a reservation, he was not requesting specific dates - he was asking for points to be transferred.

If you feel a poster has violated DIS policy, feel free to use the "Report this Post" function so the moderators can review the post but trying to disguise such comment in a discussion thread might be considered an attack in the future.

DVCrequest.com currently violates no DIS or DVC policies and suggestion to the contrary is in error. If your personal interpretation of DVC policy is that any entity with a commercial website promoting DVC rental is in violation, please instruct DVC to shut them all down - and by all, be sure to include eBay, DRC (Disney Reservation Center), RCI and DISboards (as well as many other Disney fan sites). Only DVC has the ability to do so and perhaps any members who feel strongly that DVC is shirking responsibility in this area should consider legal action against DVC to force them to do so.

This thread has ventured far from answering the questions raised in the original post and has begun to look and feel like a number of personal attacks on a specific DIS poster who has done absolutely nothing in violation of DIS policy. Unfortunately some here have chosen to characterize the individual himself as the business entity and that is not the case. Some have even contacted me by PM suggesting that Daddio is remiss for not responding online to some of the comments made in this thread. I have been impressed that he has already responded as much as he already has done - which speaks volumes to me about his personal character and integrity. These PMs have also been laced with personal insults to me and other DIS administrators - which speaks volumes to me about the personal character and integrity of those posters. Feel free to direct further insults directly to admin@wdwinfo.com so that they may be shared by ALL of the DIS Webmasters and Administrators.

 

[Torgue]

I am a new DVC member(thanks Sandi) and am still learning how things work. I will tell you with complete honesty had I known about David's service it might have changed my mind about buying. That probably means that wasn't someone that should have owned in the first place but I have a feeling that many may feel this way too. It just seems to me that Disney will have serious concerns about potential buyers using David's service instead. Like I said , I am very new but that make think twice about buying !

 

[Tamar]

Doc, I did report the post. I did not get a response from the mods. If the post in question truly was looking for points to be transferred, I apologize. I didn't read it that way, and if you give it a second read you may see where I'm coming from.

 

[Chuck S]

Normally, the person reporting the post will not receive a direct response from the mods.

When a post is reported, an email is dispatched to all the moderators of that board. The moderators then look at the post, and if, in their opinion, it violates posting guidelines it will be edited or deleted. If a reported post remains unedited or undeleted after 24 hours or so, you may conclude that the moderators did not feel that the post violated guidelines.

We do not discuss posters or their particular posts with other board posters, nor do we discuss a poster or a post in open forum, other than to issue a general reminder/warning if the thread is going off topic or venturing into areas prohibited under the posting guidelines.

On that note, this very thread is continuing to go off topic after a reminder from WebmasterDoc. Please return this thread to the original topic of whether you have used, or would use David's site.

Thanks.

 

[elgerber]

On that note, this very thread is continuing to go off topic after a reminder from WebmasterDoc. Please return this thread to the original topic of whether you have used, or would use David's site.

Thanks.

Ok I will go back to topic. I had never heard of David's site. But that said, I may need to rent some points next year, and I am seriously consider using him now!! I have done it myself before, but they renter pretty much fell in my lap, making it easy. David's site seems like it would make things easy for me.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Doc, I did report the post. I did not get a response from the mods. If the post in question truly was looking for points to be transferred, I apologize. I didn't read it that way, and if you give it a second read you may see where I'm coming from.

The title of the thread you are speaking of is "Transfer Wanted". I don't know how any reasonable person would assume anything except a transfer was being requested based on that title alone. As a matter of fact, unless someone had points from the requested resorts available, I will even question the motivation for someone even opening the thread to read it unless they have some ulterior motive.

Your report was reviewed and discarded since the thread fully complied with ALL posting rules on the DIS and the DVC Rent/Trade Board. When you report that post you even received a notice stating that the post would be reviewed and acted upon as deemed necessary - with no suggestion that you would receive any response. That fact alone does not give anyone carte blanche to complain about the same post in a discussion thread asking to hear from those who have used the service.

I have read and re-read the thread numerous times and still come to the same conclusion - it meets all posting rules of the DIS. If you or anyone else has any further insults to hurl, please send them to me personally or, better yet, just send them directly to admin@wdwinfo.com so I won't have to forward them to the other Webmasters myself.

 

[JenSop]

Yikes! I read into about 7 pages of this thread, but realized it was time for bed! (Took quite awhile!)

I see nothing wrong with what David is doing. I think it's great, actually. We haven't had to rent out our points before, but I'm glad he's there if we find the need to do so. I don't want to have to worry about the trustworthy nature of people who might rent from me! I don't want to have to worry about making up contracts and all that stuff! Maybe some of you out there have loads of time to handle that yourself - that's great! I don't.

I think it's great that he's found a way to have a business that helps owners AND renters! Seriously! I wish I had thought of it! My friend and I are still trying to figure out how to create a business to help people plan Disney trips in general, so I salute someone who found a great niche.

I'm glad for this thread, since now I know about his services, and I bookmarked it in my browser menu!

Wow, there's some serious party-poopers on here. Aren't there more important things to worry about? How about putting those angry energy vibes out into the world to do something good?

 

[mickeymom629]

I had noticed David's ad the other day on the DIS and thought "what is this?!" I was a little surprised that this would be allowed by Disney and the DIS. Today, I saw it again and decided to search to find a thread on this and found this thread.

After reading through this thread, I'm not sure if I think it's right or wrong, but I can honestly say that I am "jealous" that he found this way to make money. I would never have thought about it or, if I had, I wouldn't have thought there'd be owners who would let me make $ off what they could do themselves and I certainly would think that the DVC wouldn't allow it. It just seems wrong to me, but obviously it isn't.

All I can say is...very interesting and I wish I HAD thought of it!

 

[jekjones1558]

Now that Reservation Wanted ads are not allowed on the DIS, I think David's service is particularly valuable to me as an owner. If we need to rent out points in the future I would much rather use David's service than post a Points for Rent ad and then have to sort through all of the serious and not-so-serious potential renters. (I admit to being lazy.) In addition I think that David is helping to keep the rental price at or above the $10 rate for those who rent out points independently. Thank heavens that there are people like David and the Owner's Locker guys who see a need and take the initiative to build a business. I hope that this service is available for a long, long time.

 

[DVC Mike]

I think David provides a beneficial service for DVC owners who don't want to do all the footwork on their own to find a renter for some excess points they can't use. I've never used David's service myself, but I've heard nothing but good things about it from both DVC owners and renters who have taken advantage of the service. I may end up using it one day myself. In any case, I don't think his service harms DVC members at all, so I don't understand the all the fuss.

 

[lblume91]

On that note, this very thread is continuing to go off topic after a reminder from WebmasterDoc. Please return this thread to the original topic of whether you have used, or would use David's site.

Thanks.

Wowie! I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone with my original question. I also didn't realize this would trigger such emotional responses. As someone who is very interested in buying into DVC, I view David's service as an opportunity to see if DVC really fits my family's needs with accomodations (& to help sell my DH on it ). I have checked into renting points direct from DVC members but the risk of being ripped off is just to me. I appreicate the input from DISers that have used his service. Hope everyone has a great day!