Debt Dumpers - 2018

[mmbrad02]

I am in the situation where my my dad's dad "Paid from the hip" for him and 3 siblings to go to college; therefore my dad said he would do the same. My dad values higher education and it wasn't really an option in my house - you were going. I went to a public university and received a scholarship that covered almost everything (pending GPA, of course, remained where it should) My parents usually paid $500-1k each semester plus books. My parents both worked full time, but my dad farmed on the side, and I always joke that my dad sold a cow each semester to pay my tuition. They considered my scholarship as my contribution and I am very very thankful (One semester I had to write a letter begging for my scholarship back - but got it!).

Therefore I want to continue the tradition for my own child. We only have one, and she is 7. When she was 2 or 3 we set up a 529 with $50 a month contribution. This past summer up'd it to $100. I know we need to increase it more, and quickly, but right now it's what we have established.

 

[AmyAnne]

My parents knew I was a Type A lunatic who wanted to go to law school, so they knew I wouldn't be bringing home bad grades.

Ha this made me laugh -- my kids are like this, to varying degrees

 

[DisneyMandC]

Ha this made me laugh -- my kids are like this, to varying degrees

Lol it's totally true. My mom almost put me in therapy when I was kid because I used to cry whenever I colored outside the lines in my coloring book

It worked out though. I always kept up good grades and my parents generally just stayed out of my way when it came to my education choices. I got one C+ in law school and I called my mom and cried for an hour. I still wish I'd challenged that grade because I'm convinced it was wrong lol.

Echoing what others have said though, I completely believe in the value of trade schools and community college. Both of my parents are truck drivers and my brother works in steel construction. My brother is probably the smartest person I know and I am certain that his income will always be far more than what I make working for the government.

 

[DLgal]

Lol it's totally true. My mom almost put me in therapy when I was kid because I used to cry whenever I colored outside the lines in my coloring book

It worked out though. I always kept up good grades and my parents generally just stayed out of my way when it came to my education choices. I got one C+ in law school and I called my mom and cried for an hour. I still wish I'd challenged that grade because I'm convinced it was wrong lol.

Echoing what others have said though, I completely believe in the value of trade schools and community college. Both of my parents are truck drivers and my brother works in steel construction. My brother is probably the smartest person I know and I am certain that his income will always be far more than what I make working for the government.

LOL, my oldest son (14) STILL cries every time he makes a mistake. He wants to be right ALL the time. He used to cry if he dropped a pencil in class because "I wasn't holding it tight enough." I shouldn't laugh...he is taking anxiety meds now because he is SO high strung and hyperfocused on perfection. I can't help but believe that will serve him well eventually, though.

He is the one that stands the best chance at getting a really amazing trade job. I am sort of steering him towards the electrical/energy technology fields because he has a natural talent and interest in electronics and he is an absolute savant when it comes to math. He built a PC from scratch with basically no help last year at the age of 13. But, he wants to be a pastry chef...I guess the temptation to make absolutely perfect and uniform looking desserts is too great to pass up.

 

[AmyAnne]

Lol it's totally true. My mom almost put me in therapy when I was kid because I used to cry whenever I colored outside the lines in my coloring book

It worked out though. I always kept up good grades and my parents generally just stayed out of my way when it came to my education choices. I got one C+ in law school and I called my mom and cried for an hour. I still wish I'd challenged that grade because I'm convinced it was wrong lol.

Echoing what others have said though, I completely believe in the value of trade schools and community college. Both of my parents are truck drivers and my brother works in steel construction. My brother is probably the smartest person I know and I am certain that his income will always be far more than what I make working for the government.

That's a great story about not wanting to color outside the lines. I had more than one unpleasant conversation with one of my son's kindergarten teachers because he could not complete projects within the allotted time -- he was so careful about doing each step correctly that he took way too long. I specifically recall one unfinished bunny project that got sent home with the pieces in various degrees of being cut out and pasted together.

I agree too about community colleges and trade schools. One of my BIL delivered beer for many years and made a good amount of money. However, once he was in his forties, the physical demands of that job were just too much. Now that I am about to turn 50, I do appreciate that my job is so physically non-demanding that I have much more flexibility about when (or even whether) to retire.

 

[FQLover]

I am a college professor and one of my benefits is free tuition to a certain collection of schools. My DD will have to take out loans for room and board, though. I will be retiring one year after she graduates from college (old mom here) so I do not plan on taking any loans myself.

We do have three colleges/universities in our town, all of which would be free tuition, and I would welcome her to live at home for free. In that case, I would buy her a car so that she could be very independent even though living at home. I can pay that car off before I retire. I told her that I would not keep any tabs on her at all. So far, though, her heart is set on another school about four hours away. So, she will need loans for R and B.

My salary is not that high and raising her my own did not allow me to start saving for R and B years ago. I figure that the tuition is a big gift.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

My parents completely paid for my education and my siblings' education. Education was always very highly valued in my family. Both of my parents and 3 of my grandparents had at least an undergraduate degree and several with graduate/professional degrees too. So for us, it was an expectation that we would go to college and my parents instilled this from a young age.

For me, my education included undergrad and a law school/masters of public health dual degree program. I was much like @DisneyMandC, very type A and focused on my goals. I was also very conscious of the cost to my parents. I worked throughout college and law school (with the exception of my 1L year because they prohibit having a job). I chose a law school that provided better merit aid and gave in state tuition if you worked as a RA. I also completed my undergrad degree on time and finished my JD/MPH degrees a year early to help save money.

But even though I worked and pitched in as I could, if I had needed to foot the bill, there is no way that I could have worked through school and come out with little or no debt. Working 10 hours per week in law school is intense when you also have hundreds of pages of reading as well. I took the job in order to get the in-state tuition rate, which saved my parents something like $25k per year. So I graduated without any student loans and it has been the best gift that my parents could ever have given me.

DH went to a university in Toronto and commuted each day, which meant that he didn't have any housing costs. He just had his student loans and the cost of education is so much lower in Canada than in the US. He paid a significant portion of his loans before we got married and once we got married, it was the first thing that we knocked out on our debt dumping journey.

I look at my peers that are struggling under the weight of student loans, housing costs and the expense of kids. I don't think all that debt has really taught them a better lesson than me. Skills like financial literacy and time management are skills that are taught and learned over a child's entire life, mainly by their parents. I think that if a kid gets to the point of starting college and lacks those skills, making them foot the bill for college isn't going to suddenly help them smarten up. If anything, it could have the opposite effect. DH's brother has been in undergrad for 6 years and who knows when he will actually finish at this point. He just didn't have the proper skills and floundered for quite a while.

DD is just shy of 11 months. The day that we got her SS#, I opened a 529 account for her. We are currently putting in $200 a month, but once we are past the child care phase, we plan to up contributions by a lot. And I am asking for family to make contributions to her account for birthdays and holidays instead of buying tons of toys and such. My parents have been really supportive and are planning to start making monthly contributions into her 529 account too. My intent is that she will have her education fully funded, including graduate/professional school if she goes that way. Same with any other kids that we have. I don't think that having this gift will have a negative effect on her, but rather it will be immensely positive in the same way that it has been for me.

 

[Eureka]

This was me. I worked almost full time my last three years of college, has to drop some classes, failed a couple, and needed to do 2 summer sessions and I still didn't graduate "on time." I walked in the ceremony in May but didn't finish until September of that year. It was tough, but it was what I had to do. I honestly think it taught me a lot about time management, priorities, and consequences. It also gave me a lot of great job skills that I used later in life. I wouldn't change a thing. I strongly believe that struggling is a very valuable life lesson/experience and that people come out better for it long term.

I completely understand what you're saying and admire and respect you for all that you did to make it work. I guess we feel like there will be plenty of struggle ahead just being a young adult and we'd like to get them off to as good a start as we can.

 

[DisneyMandC]

But even though I worked and pitched in as I could, if I had needed to foot the bill, there is no way that I could have worked through school and come out with little or no debt. Working 10 hours per week in law school is intense when you also have hundreds of pages of reading as well.

Jeez I do not miss those days... I TAed my 2L year and then was executive editor on law review my 3L year. There was absolutely no way I could've worked a regular job. I remember that when I actually started my first job, I was marveling at how much free time I had in the evenings.

 

[crazycatstacy]

Peeps. I have a completely "unfashionable" question. It's hugely unpopular. Like, I'm expecting hate and discontent and "How could you even ask that?!" raining down on my head. But I have to ask.

For those of you who have kids in college or had kids in college, did you fully pay for their tuition? Did you have rules about it (keeping a certain GPA)? And the most wicked question of all: did your kids ask or expect you to pay?

I'm honestly curious. I have kids headed that way. I paid my own way, grants and scholarships helping. My parents helped for books sometimes, but it was squarely on my shoulders, so I felt the pain if I did poorly in a class. I never expected them to take out a loan for my college, but it seems like that is the "norm" now.

My parents initially paid for my college and then I proceeded to register and "attend" at three colleges, receiving no credits because I would only go to class the first couple weeks. I went back to college at 25 and had to pay my own way. I was an awesome student and it didn't occur to me to ask my parents.

My daughter is 23 and we told her we didn't save money for her to go to college, sorry. she would live at home rent free while she went to college or we would try to help with maybe books or snacks or something but she was on her own to foot the bill. She went one semester and then didn't like it- she's currently paying her student loan.

In a perfect world I would have enough money to fully pay for her schooling without batting an eye. In the real world I would have conversations about it and make sure she knew how much she would pay back vs making and help her to find other ways to pay. She currently works at Great Lakes Financial helping people that are in default with student loans so she has seen the damage it can do.

 

[Tygerlilly]

Peeps. I have a completely "unfashionable" question. It's hugely unpopular. Like, I'm expecting hate and discontent and "How could you even ask that?!" raining down on my head. But I have to ask.

For those of you who have kids in college or had kids in college, did you fully pay for their tuition? Did you have rules about it (keeping a certain GPA)? And the most wicked question of all: did your kids ask or expect you to pay?

I'm honestly curious. I have kids headed that way. I paid my own way, grants and scholarships helping. My parents helped for books sometimes, but it was squarely on my shoulders, so I felt the pain if I did poorly in a class. I never expected them to take out a loan for my college, but it seems like that is the "norm" now.

My kids are still only 1.5 and 3, but we have a savings account for them for furthering their education. I want to give them as much of a boost in education as I can. My parents couldn't afford to help me and I couldn't afford it myself. So I dropped out after my first year. It took 14 years for me to attempt going back, and that's just because I got grant money.
We will encourage them to apply for grants and scholorships and grants themselves, but we will *hopefully* be able to pay for their first 4 years completely.

 

[Ngwira]

DLgal said: ↑
I strongly believe that struggling is a very valuable life lesson/experience and that people come out better for it long term.

100% agree.

Yes, it teaches resilience, resourcefulness and the important lesson that self reliance is a life skill everyone should strive for.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

Jeez I do not miss those days... I TAed my 2L year and then was executive editor on law review my 3L year. There was absolutely no way I could've worked a regular job. I remember that when I actually started my first job, I was marveling at how much free time I had in the evenings.

Same with me. When I started my first job, I had so much free time, I was terribly bored. I realized I needed a hobby so I started sewing and quilting.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

DLgal said: ↑
I strongly believe that struggling is a very valuable life lesson/experience and that people come out better for it long term.


Yes, it teaches resilience, resourcefulness and the important lesson that self reliance is a life skill everyone should strive for.

I agree that these are important life skills, but I don't think that the only way to teach these skills is by kids being burdened with 100k+ student loan debt.

 

[Ngwira]

I agree that these are important life skills, but I don't think that the only way to teach these skills is by kids being burdened with 100k+ student loan debt.

I agree with you 100 percent.

 

[Tygerlilly]

Banana dance for us!! Today's car payment on DF's truck brought us down to under $900 left!!! I'm crossing all my fingers and toes that I can get this paid off by vacation. That's 3 paychecks. I think I can do it.

 

[DLgal]

I agree that these are important life skills, but I don't think that the only way to teach these skills is by kids being burdened with 100k+ student loan debt.

No one needs to spend $100k on a bachelor's degree. That's ridiculous. A lot of people underestimate the value of doing 2 years at a community college and transferring to a 4 year university. All those basic classes can be done for pennies, compared to 4 year university school costs. I should have done that myself. My sister did that.

Regardless, I graduated with under $20,000 in loans. Got a Bachelor's from very highly ranked University of California campus. I used my part time job earnings to pay for books and part of my tuition every year.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

No one needs to spend $100k on a bachelor's degree. That's ridiculous. A lot of people underestimate the value of doing 2 years at a community college and transferring to a 4 year university. All those basic classes can be done for pennies, compared to 4 year university school costs. I should have done that myself. My sister did that.

Regardless, I graduated with under $20,000 in loans. Got a Bachelor's from very highly ranked University of California campus. I used my part time job earnings to pay for books and part of my tuition every year.

There are many options in education and the choices that people make are often carefully calculated. My goal was to attend a top law school. I never met a single person in my law school class that went to community college and transferred to a 4 year university. Not saying that isn't possible, but probably less likely to get accepted especially for students that are going right from undergrad into law school without a break to work.

And as terrible as this may sound, law is a really competitive environment and your resume is the first thing that someone sees. When we are hiring for new attorneys, we very heavily weigh the educational institutions that people attended when making hiring decisions. There is literally a line that we won't go beneath in law school rankings when considering candidates because we have learned through experience that the education isn't equivalent and those candidates are not going to be adequately prepared for the job. There are fields that people can go into that won't be as dramatically weighted towards educational institution choice as law. That is another choice.

Also, you are lucky to have lived in California as they have a very good state university system. That isn't necessarily available for everyone and the top state schools in most states are extremely competitive, so some people opt for a private school or an out of state school.

 

[imbatman]

I always joke that my dad sold a cow each semester to pay my tuition

That made me laugh! "Betsy's gone to market. We can buy your books now."

Banana dance for us!! Today's car payment on DF's truck brought us down to under $900 left!!! I'm crossing all my fingers and toes that I can get this paid off by vacation. That's 3 paychecks. I think I can do it.

No one needs to spend $100k on a bachelor's degree. That's ridiculous. A lot of people underestimate the value of doing 2 years at a community college and transferring to a 4 year university. All those basic classes can be done for pennies, compared to 4 year university school costs. I should have done that myself. My sister did that.

Regardless, I graduated with under $20,000 in loans. Got a Bachelor's from very highly ranked University of California campus. I used my part time job earnings to pay for books and part of my tuition every year.

Agreed. 4 year colleges are pushed so hard in jr. high and high schools now (ask me how I know...). Absolutely grateful the school my kids are in works with the local community college for dual credits, only having to pay for the books and campus fees.

 

[DisneyMandC]

And as terrible as this may sound, law is a really competitive environment and your resume is the first thing that someone sees. When we are hiring for new attorneys, we very heavily weigh the educational institutions that people attended when making hiring decisions. There is literally a line that we won't go beneath in law school rankings when considering candidates because we have learned through experience that the education isn't equivalent and those candidates are not going to be adequately prepared for the job. There are fields that people can go into that won't be as dramatically weighted towards education as law. That is another choice.

So true. Especially if you want to clerk. I try to tell anyone interested in law school that they need to go to best ranked school they're able to get into, barring the fact that they don't hate the school for some reason. I had a professor in college try to tell me that I could go to any law school and as long as I passed the bar nobody hiring me would care about that school's ranking. Uhh, no... Definitely not how that works. Thankfully I knew better, but it made me very concerned for any other students he had shared that piece of "advice" with.