Disney Skyliner (Gondola) Construction Updates

[Jen1995]

Doppelmayr says that the floor space between the benches is the "width of a shipping pallet", but they mean a Euro-pallet (30 inches); the door opening is a smidge over 32 inches. If a double stroller or wheelchair is parked, there won't be room for legs on both sides of it. The width of the bench will be about 104 inches, according to the product specs; the Swiss allow 20.8 inches per tush; Disney seems to be allowing 26"

I really don't think that they will be making much effort to "pack" the gondolas to full capacity, because that would slow down the load. The cars won't stop, so you need people to just flow onboard with no hesitation, which they will not do if they are boarding with strangers. (I don't think they would outright balk, but hesitation will mean that there won't be time to get everyone on board.)

I think that at the very busiest times they may slow down the cable a tad so that there is more time to try to get every seat filled, but I can't see it going much beyond that. The transport rate that is being cited is a maximum with 8 riders per cabin, but I think that a lot of the time the cabins will be rolling out half-full. (Some people have guessed that they might use a box-painted-on-the-floor system to get riders grouped ready to load, but I have trouble seeing that working well, since CM's would need a way to tell people when to leave the box, as the cabins would not stop in front of them to be loaded.)

On other threads on other boards, some people are saying that the lack of A/C would mean numerous medical emergencies, but I don't think that would be all that common unless the cable stopped. What I do think it would mean would be people riding it once in summertime and swearing never again due to the heat. Americans tend to have a very low tolerance for discomfort on public transit.

2 thoughts here: 1) yes, many Americans can have low tolerance for discomfort when they have alternatives like vehicles. But that isn't a cultural thing - it is an access thing. Americans have more access to cars. I lived in Manhattan long enough to know that when you don't have alternatives, you end up dealing with some unbelievably oppressive crowds, heat, etc. on public transit when you don't have access to cars. 2) I think Disney would do well to remember this isn't commute to a job that pays your bills so you can eat - it's vacation that you are likely spending thousands of dollars on. Why should people be uncomfortable on vacation when they don't have to be?

 

[joelkfla]

2 thoughts here: 1) yes, many Americans can have low tolerance for discomfort when they have alternatives like vehicles. But that isn't a cultural thing - it is an access thing. Americans have more access to cars. I lived in Manhattan long enough to know that when you don't have alternatives, you end up dealing with some unbelievably oppressive crowds, heat, etc. on public transit when you don't have access to cars. 2) I think Disney would do well to remember this isn't commute to a job that pays your bills so you can eat - it's vacation that you are likely spending thousands of dollars on. Why should people be uncomfortable on vacation when they don't have to be?

You will have a seat -- these cabins are not designed for standees. And you will have a smooth ride. And you will not have various body parts of standees and their backpacks, purses, etc. in your face while you're seated. And you'll have a nice view.

So from a comfort perspective, the only negative comparison to a bus might be the lack of a/c, which shouldn't be much of an issue in the a.m. rush, and probably not at park closing either, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

Guests who don't want to deal with the Disney Transport have always had the options of taking a taxi or driving to a park. Now they also have Lyft, Uber, and Minnie Vans.

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

It will all be fun and games until someone lets out a big stinkin fart and you have to sit in it with no way out until you reach the next station. Just sayin'

 

[Haley R]

It will all be fun and games until someone lets out a big stinkin fart and you have to sit in it with no way out until you reach the next station. Just sayin'

OMG that would be horrible. I can just imagine a hot day with a family of people I don't know sitting in the gondola with me all sweaty and stinky. At least if it's my own family I can complain lol

 

[Jen1995]

You will have a seat -- these cabins are not designed for standees. And you will have a smooth ride. And you will not have various body parts of standees and their backpacks, purses, etc. in your face while you're seated. And you'll have a nice view.

So from a comfort perspective, the only negative comparison to a bus might be the lack of a/c, which shouldn't be much of an issue in the a.m. rush, and probably not at park closing either, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

Guests who don't want to deal with the Disney Transport have always had the options of taking a taxi or driving to a park. Now they also have Lyft, Uber, and Minnie Vans.

Lack of air is huge. Now people are roasting and they smell. And babies are crying, old people are passing out, etc. Nice vacation! And Disney still doesn't get that eventually people will just have enough of paying for extras at Disney they are getting at other resorts/vacation destinations for free.

 

[Jen1995]

The insiders who are reporting this are very reliable and are very adamant that there will not be bus service except in the event of weather related stoppages or maintenance. Dozens of people have argued that they don't believe this will be the only form of transportation and the insiders (who have been right about many other details of this system) have continued to insisted that it will. The gondolas will move far more people per hour than the buses -- in the area of 5,000 people per hour so it should have no trouble moving people from the 4 resorts (I believe it's almost double the hourly capacity of buses). I'm one of those people who is not looking forward to the Skyliner due to my fear of heights (though the towers I saw were not as high as I was expecting them to be) as well as my claustrophobia. Riding the Skyliner is going to be a challenge for me so I would love for there to still be buses, but I'm 99.9% sure there will not be buses running to those to parks from those 3 resorts so I will just deal with it. One insider said that there is a very, very remote possibility that there will still be some bus service available but it will be more like once every 60-90 minutes and possibly even less frequently than that, but s/he is far more confident that there will be none.

I can give you the link to the thread on another board with the most information. I've followed it from day 1 and there are over 10,000 posts on it and I can tell you that this issues of "they can't eliminate the buses -- what about the people who are afraid of heights?" and "there *has* to be air conditioning in the cars -- people will die of heat exhaustion if there isn't" (there won't be a/c) come up every week or two so they've been beat to death dozens of times in those 10,000 posts and the stance from the insiders never changes.

I would be very happy if this information turns out to be wrong, but the insiders reporting this have been right about soooooo many things that just didn't seem possible over the years, that I have no reason to believe they are wrong about this.

I'm sure Disney has various ideas about what they think will happen. But Disney is wrong all the time, because they don't do their due diligence on what guests actually want or need. So those "insiders" may be repeating what Disney thinks. But if Disney doesn't actually know everything, it's just a bad game of telephone.

 

[Wubar]

I'm amazed that people think they should get their own gondola vs sharing with others. This isn't an attraction, it's transportation. Perhaps Disney will have a single rider line to make sure all gondolas are full. I can't imagine that they want the cars going off half empty because some family requested their own car!!! If you don't want to ride with 'strangers' then I suggest driving your own car. You have to get on a bus, boat and monorail with 'strangers'...why is this any different?
.

I'm not amazed by this. Some more of that ugly entitlement attitude spreading its' nasty tentacles everywhere. Just whining.

 

[Jen1995]

I'm not amazed by this. Some more of that ugly entitlement attitude spreading its' nasty tentacles everywhere. Just whining.

How dare people want comfort and safety on a VACATION of all things!

 

[bluezy]

I'm sure Disney has various ideas what they think will happen. But Disney is wrong all the time, because they don't do their due diligence on what guests actually want or need. So those "insiders" may be repeating what Disney thinks. But if Disney doesn't actually know everything, it's just a bad game of telephone.

Well, these insiders have been spot on with information for years (not just on this project) so I have no reason to believe they're just playing a game of telephone here. I would love for them to be wrong but I can't see Disney spending all this money to build this system so they can eliminate a large number of buses on the road and reduce the environmental impact...and then still running those buses. That makes no sense. This is a mode of transportation not a ride. I will be pleasantly surprised (and will admit that my faithful insiders were wrong) if I ever ride a bus from AoA to DHS or EP again (other than during bad weather).

 

[Jen1995]

Well, these insiders have been spot on with information for years (not just on this project) so I have no reason to believe they're just playing a game of telephone here. I would love for them to be wrong but I can't see Disney spending all this money to build this system so they can eliminate a large number of buses on the road and reduce the environmental impact...and then still running those buses. That makes no sense. This is a mode of transportation not a ride. I will be pleasantly surprised (and will admit that my faithful insiders were wrong) if I ever ride a bus from AoA to DHS or EP again (other than during bad weather).

What makes no sense is telling guests that they have to put up or shut up no matter what. Disney already has a history of capitulating to guest demand when it comes to people who cannot tolerate overheating, claustrophobia and crowds, anxiety, etc with the DAC. You really think they are going to just say "to h@ll with those people they can take an Uber?" I am not calling those insiders liars. I am saying that Disney frequently fails to predict accurately what guests will demand/tolerate, so it doesn't matter what they hope will happen. What matters is what ends up happening. Disney is a business. In sales. No one has to go to Disney and no one has to stay at an inconvenient resort on property either. Disney has to sell it. And saying "but we spent so much money on this system! Wah wah" doesn't mean jack to the buyers.

 

[scrappinginontario]

I'm going to wait until the system opens to guests and see what really happens. Until then it's all speculation.

 

[NotUrsula]

I agree that the plan is to eliminate bus service on those routes, but as Robbie Burns once notably said, "The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men. Gang aft agley,."

We all know that Disney isn't immune to making the occasional mistake; we've seen hugely-hyped pilot programs often enough that have been abandoned, and expensive rides/shows that were unpopular with guests. ("Extra-TERROR-estrial Alien Encounter" anyone? Superstar Limo?), and even some that were very popular with guests but which had very expensive downsides for the company (20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Tomorrowland Flying Saucers, etc.).

I am NOT saying that the system will be necessarily be a failure. In fact, I feel that the concept is a very good one and could be a roaring success. What I am saying is that the system, having never been used at a property like this one with this particular mix of patrons, has the POTENTIAL for issues that may create strongly divided opinions among guests. What remains to be seen is if the number of guests who don't like it ends up greater than the number of guests who do, and if so, what will be done to improve the guest experience? (Which for all their faults, Disney Parks and CM's still continuously strive to do.) I can't see WDW simply abandoning the Skyliner because of early-stage problems or complaints. It is a massive investment, so if issues arise, they will try to solve them.

IMO, it would seem that a gradual phase-out of bus service at these resorts would be the optimal option. If the gondola system gets really good word-of-mouth, once-skeptical guests will be willing to try it, but if there are glitches, retaining buses for a while as an option will take the pressure off enough to keep guests fairly happy while Disney implements solutions.

As to the a/c installation, it seems it can be done, though to date it has only been done on a fairly small scale. The Wynn Palace Resort in Macau has air-conditioned a similar model of cabin on their SkyCab system. https://liftblog.com/2016/08/23/in-pictures-crazy-gondola-opens-at-wynn-palace-cotai/ Is a/c cheap? Nope. Will WDW install it if enough guests decide that the gondola cabins are too hot to use? I think so. (Now, this part is just my personal guess, but I would bet anything that even though the cabins were purchased with no a/c, it is likely that the wiring connections needed to easily install a/c were probably ordered anyway, to make a retrofit cheaper and reduce down-time in the event that they decide to add it later.)

 

[bluezy]

What makes no sense is telling guests that they have to put up or shut up no matter what. Disney already has a history of capitulating to guest demand when it comes to people who cannot tolerate overheating, claustrophobia and crowds, anxiety, etc with the DAC. You really think they are going to just say "to h@ll with those people they can take an Uber?" I am not calling those insiders liars. I am saying that Disney frequently fails to predict accurately what guests will demand/tolerate, so it doesn't matter what they hope will happen. What matters is what ends up happening. Disney is a business. In sales. No one has to go to Disney and no one has to stay at an inconvenient resort on property either. Disney has to sell it. And saying "but we spent so much money on this system! Wah wah" doesn't mean jack to the buyers.

I'm sure Disney is going to sell this system as a perk at those 3 resorts (they're already doing it) just like they do with the monorail. They aren't going to say anything about how much money they spent, they're just going to sell the convenience and efficiency of this eco-friendly mode of transportation. For those guests who don't want to ride it, I think they will tell them that this is the only transportation available on a regular basis from those 3 resorts to those 2 parks. If that doesn't work for those people (and I could be one of them), there are several other value and moderate resorts that they can stay at that will still offer bus transportation to all of the parks. Disney doesn't run buses for people who stay at the monorail resorts but don't want to ride the monorail. Yes, those people can also walk (if they're able) from the Contemporary or boat from the Poly or GF to MK, but the monorail is their only option to Epcot. Same for the Epcot resort guests getting to EP or DHS -- if they can't or don't want to walk and have a fear of taking a boat, they need to provide their own mode of transportation to those parks. The Skyliner will be the same. Like Scrappingmom said, we won't really know exactly how things will operate logistically until it opens, but I won't bet a dime against this being the only real form of transportation for those resorts/parks. If buses run (and that's a big IF), they will be very inconvenient/sparse -- probably running every 2 hours rather than every 20 minutes or less like they do now. I fully expect to Lyft/Uber to DHS & Epcot if we stay at AoA again on our next trip.

 

[bluezy]

I agree that the plan is to eliminate bus service on those routes, but as Robbie Burns once notably said, "The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men. Gang aft agley,."

As to the a/c installation, it seems it can be done, though to date it has only been done on a fairly small scale. The Wynn Palace Resort in Macau has air-conditioned a similar model of cabin on their SkyCab system. https://liftblog.com/2016/08/23/in-pictures-crazy-gondola-opens-at-wynn-palace-cotai/ Is a/c cheap? Nope. Will WDW install it if enough guests decide that the gondola cabins are too hot to use? I think so. (Now, this part is just my personal guess, but I would bet anything that even though the cabins were purchased with no a/c, it is likely that the wiring connections needed to easily install a/c were probably ordered anyway, to make a retrofit cheaper and reduce down-time in the event that they decide to add it later.)

I've read many reports that the handful of systems throughout the world that have a/c have a lot of problems with it and it often doesn't work well. And people who have ridden systems without a/c in tropical climates said the ventilation system in the cabins provides a nice cooling breeze. It's not as cool as a/c, but it's not the hot stuffy, stagnant air situation that people imagine. One of the reasons that the Disney system doesn't have a/c is that the runs are very short...it's estimated that the longest segment will be less than a 10 minute ride. Since the doors of the cars will be open for some period of time (I think it's like 45 seconds) every time they come in to a station (every 9-10 minutes or less depending on the loop they're on), it would be a constant battle to actually cool the cabin. By the time it starts to feel cool, it would be entering a station and the doors would open again letting the hot air in/cold air out. A/C on these systems is really only effective if they are in the air for a good length of time. Believe me, I really wish they'd have a/c because "stuffiness" in a room only enhances my claustrophobia. As far as power in the cabins -- there isn't actual power wired to each cabin -- they have batteries that are recharged every time they enter a station. I also think I read that you can't "add" a/c -- it has to be manufactured in to the cabins from the beginning.

 

[NotUrsula]

I've read many reports that the handful of systems throughout the world that have a/c have a lot of problems with it and it often doesn't work well. And people who have ridden systems without a/c in tropical climates said the ventilation system in the cabins provides a nice cooling breeze. It's not as cool as a/c, but it's not the hot stuffy, stagnant air situation that people imagine. One of the reasons that the Disney system doesn't have a/c is that the runs are very short...it's estimated that the longest segment will be less than a 10 minute ride. Since the doors of the cars will be open for some period of time (I think it's like 45 seconds) every time they come in to a station (every 9-10 minutes or less depending on the loop they're on), it would be a constant battle to actually cool the cabin. By the time it starts to feel cool, it would be entering a station and the doors would open again letting the hot air in/cold air out. A/C on these systems is really only effective if they are in the air for a good length of time. Believe me, I really wish they'd have a/c because "stuffiness" in a room only enhances my claustrophobia. As far as power in the cabins -- there isn't actual power wired to each cabin -- they have batteries that are recharged every time they enter a station. I also think I read that you can't "add" a/c -- it has to be manufactured in to the cabins from the beginning.

I've looked at the same reports, and AFAICT, none of the installations in the tropics are in low-altitude areas where the majority of the populace is used to a/c, and I think that will make a difference. Just as so many visitors to WDW who come from low-humidity areas find the atmosphere crushingly hot, those guests who are used to that kind of heat tolerate it better; your body adapts to the climate you spend the majority of your time in. I would say that the vast majority of visitors to WDW are used to air-conditioned automobiles, and that is where the perception will feed the prejudice.

I don't dispute that adding a/c (assuming that I'm correct and the cabins have been built to accommodate adding it) is not an easy proposition on a system like this; I'm aware that the cabins' internal power depends entirely on batteries, which is very problematic for an a/c system. Still, there are options that could improve comfort if necessary. It's possible that Disney could put directed a/c and/or misting fans in the stations to cool the open cabins and/or the loading area so that guests are not too hot when they board (similar to the a/c now installed over the wait lines at BTMRR). They could also add fans to the vents to boost the airflow.

Whatever Disney chooses to do, the expectation that a glass bubble in full sun is going to be sweltering isn't an unreasonable one, and isn't uncommon, either. They are going to have to actively battle that expectation from the start if they want the Skyliner to be a year-round success.

 

[Jen1995]

I'm sure Disney is going to sell this system as a perk at those 3 resorts (they're already doing it) just like they do with the monorail. They aren't going to say anything about how much money they spent, they're just going to sell the convenience and efficiency of this eco-friendly mode of transportation. For those guests who don't want to ride it, I think they will tell them that this is the only transportation available on a regular basis from those 3 resorts to those 2 parks. If that doesn't work for those people (and I could be one of them), there are several other value and moderate resorts that they can stay at that will still offer bus transportation to all of the parks. Disney doesn't run buses for people who stay at the monorail resorts but don't want to ride the monorail. Yes, those people can also walk (if they're able) from the Contemporary or boat from the Poly or GF to MK, but the monorail is their only option to Epcot. Same for the Epcot resort guests getting to EP or DHS -- if they can't or don't want to walk and have a fear of taking a boat, they need to provide their own mode of transportation to those parks. The Skyliner will be the same. Like Scrappingmom said, we won't really know exactly how things will operate logistically until it opens, but I won't bet a dime against this being the only real form of transportation for those resorts/parks. If buses run (and that's a big IF), they will be very inconvenient/sparse -- probably running every 2 hours rather than every 20 minutes or less like they do now. I fully expect to Lyft/Uber to DHS & Epcot if we stay at AoA again on our next trip.

If walking or taking a ferry etc were also options from these resorts to wherever the gondola is taking them I would agree. But they aren't. And there is a big difference between a basic mode of transportation like a shuttle/monorail and a tiny gondola 75 feet up on a wire. They can't say that 4 of their most massive resorts are off limits to people who can't handle heights or tiny enclosed spaces. That's a LOT of people! The gondola can only be sold well if it is seen as a perk. Having it be the only one mode of transport is a drawback.

 

[SimplyTink]

It will all be fun and games until someone lets out a big stinkin fart and you have to sit in it with no way out until you reach the next station. Just sayin'

We've been on the monorail when that happens and it is GROSS!!

 

[goofy4tink]

How dare people want comfort and safety on a VACATION of all things!

How would this be unsafe? As someone has already said, the ride isn't going to be that long, and with the doors opening so often, it will take a bit of time to cool the car down, just in time to hop out! There will be ventilation. If that proves to be insufficient, I'm sure something will be added.
I doubt that the buses will be done away with altogether. There will be plenty of guests that prefer not to use this mode of transportation. My issue is that the room rates will go up. Disney will see this as a 'perk' of staying at these resorts, the same way being able to walk to Epcot and DHS from BW/YC/BC is. Or the monorail and boats over at the MK area resorts.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they do with them. If these aren't going to actually stop, but keep slowly moving, I see issues with families with kids and strollers, not to mention ECVs and wheelchairs.

 

[scrappinginontario]

If anyone watched Amazing Race Canada last night the competitors rode a gondola that looks like the ones that will be going in at WDW. They sat 4 comfortably on a bench but also they were all smaller people in general. Will be interesting to see how things work out once they're open at WDW!

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

How would this be unsafe? As someone has already said, the ride isn't going to be that long, and with the doors opening so often, it will take a bit of time to cool the car down, just in time to hop out! There will be ventilation. If that proves to be insufficient, I'm sure something will be added.
I doubt that the buses will be done away with altogether. There will be plenty of guests that prefer not to use this mode of transportation. My issue is that the room rates will go up. Disney will see this as a 'perk' of staying at these resorts, the same way being able to walk to Epcot and DHS from BW/YC/BC is. Or the monorail and boats over at the MK area resorts.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they do with them. If these aren't going to actually stop, but keep slowly moving, I see issues with families with kids and strollers, not to mention ECVs and wheelchairs.

This is from Doppelmayr website:

The detachable gondola lift from Doppelmayr/Garaventa ranks as one of the most successful ropeway systems in the world. It features cabins to take four to 15 passengers and is used to transport winter sports enthusiasts up snow-covered mountains in the most popular ski resorts, helps to boost summer tourism and also blends in perfectly with the cityscape when employed in urban transport projects. Traveling on a detachable gondola lift from Doppelmayr/Garaventa is safe, comfortable and fast. Modern design, innovative safety components and top-grade structural steelwork ensure a successful combination of aesthetics, utmost safety and optimal added value. The panoramic windows allow a unique, all-round view – and create the sensation of being immersed in nature.

Time and again, the gondola lift demonstrates its many benefits through barrier-free access which means that strollers, wheelchairs or alternative winter sports equipment can be transported without any problem. The detachable grip technology perfected by Doppelmayr/Garaventa enables the carriers to separate from the haul rope in the stations, ensuring particularly comfortable loading and unloading for passengers. On the line, gondolas reach speeds of up to 6 m/s.