Disney to cancel FPs if room is cancelled

[twoolle]

If you look at resort availability for early May, it certainly wouldn’t appear that they don’t have the crowds. My resort of choice was booked solid months ago on a discount and even at rack rate, every single value and moderate ( with the exception of AOA suites) is sold out. It’s too much of a coincidence that fp availability jumped within days of the new policy starting.

The prevailing thought on these boards is there is no slow time anymore. I can’t recall a time in recent history that days after my window opened I could still book FOP and as of this morning, I still can.
View attachment 386760

Early May is booked up at resorts due to cheerleading competitions, they take up tons of rooms at the values but the impact in the parks is minimal.

 

[otten]

The reports of availability since the "crackdown" seems to indicate that if everyone is forced to play by the rules and abuse is eliminated or reduced then the system functions as it is supposed to for everyone. Perhaps all the "strategists" that keep justifying their actions by claiming they aren't hurting anyone should consider that all of a sudden the impossible to get FP+ options are available at 60 and 61 days.

Or we're now in the 60 day window of a lower crowd time.

I think it's really unlikely that use of these loopholes was or is as rampant as these boards think. A large number of WDW guests don't even know to book FP in advance. Y

If you look at resort availability for early May, it certainly wouldn’t appear that they don’t have the crowds. My resort of choice was booked solid months ago on a discount and even at rack rate, every single value and moderate ( with the exception of AOA suites) is sold out. It’s too much of a coincidence that fp availability jumped within days of the new policy starting.

The prevailing thought on these boards is there is no slow time anymore. I can’t recall a time in recent history that days after my window opened I could still book FOP and as of this morning, I still can.
View attachment 386760

There are cheer and dance events in early May that have booked up the value resorts and likely some moderates but those don’t have much effect on crowds.

 

[PrincessV]

My 30-day window opened today... no SDD or FOP to be found. I have an onsite stay and booked FPs at my 60-day window, but could only find FPs for SDD and FOP for the day I'm leaving and can't use them. I had hoped maybe the "new rule" would help open things up at 30 days, but no dice for me... but since it doesn't appear that Disney is actually canceling FPs when folks cancel their onsite stays, I'm not surprised.

 

[loutoo]

Clearly Disney views this behavior as an issue or they wouldn't be trying to curb it. To believe that the few people on these boards that actively talk about this stuff are the only people who know about it is pretty egotistical. To think that TAs aren't using these techniques on a much larger scale for money is naive . To think that no one else is being effected is willful ignorance. And to assert that it is okay because you are getting away with it or must not be wrong because no one is catching you and stopping you is just unethical.

I think it is pretty clear that using the onsite booking window for offsite guests is against the rules, especially if they aren't in your traveling party, but if we just give it a cute name like the umbrella then that makes everything ok. You know a TA or Disney planner can fit hundreds or thousands of people under an umbrella.

The fact that WDW is trying to change the system to stop the abuse means that it is abuse. If you have to go and find a new way to cheat because Disney stopped the last one, then I think we can all throw the argument that it isn't cheating out the window.

Feel free to keep justifying it anyway you want. The fact that Disney views it as an issue and is trying to stop it is the only evidence I need that it is having a negative impact on the system and is against the rules, but I guess if there is one thing I have learned from my years on these boards it is that we all know better than Disney, am I right.

I'm going to step away from this thread now because it is depressing and upsetting. Happy "strategizing" folks. I hope Disney cancels your FPs and locks your MDE and your next trip is filled with the long standby lines your shenanigans make the people who play by the rules have to wait in.

 

[Runnsally]

Clearly Disney views this behavior as an issue or they wouldn't be trying to curb it. To believe that the few people on these boards that actively talk about this stuff are the only people who know about it is pretty egotistical. To think that TAs aren't using these techniques on a much larger scale for money is naive . To think that no one else is being effected is willful ignorance. And to assert that it is okay because you are getting away with it or must not be wrong because no one is catching you and stopping you is just unethical.

I think it is pretty clear that using the onsite booking window for offsite guests is against the rules, especially if they aren't in your traveling party, but if we just give it a cute name like the umbrella then that makes everything ok. You know a TA or Disney planner can fit hundreds or thousands of people under an umbrella.

The fact that WDW is trying to change the system to stop the abuse means that it is abuse. If you have to go and find a new way to cheat because Disney stopped the last one, then I think we can all throw the argument that it isn't cheating out the window.

Feel free to keep justifying it anyway you want. The fact that Disney views it as an issue and is trying to stop it is the only evidence I need that it is having a negative impact on the system and is against the rules, but I guess if there is one thing I have learned from my years on these boards it is that we all know better than Disney, am I right.

I'm going to step away from this thread now because it is depressing and upsetting. Happy "strategizing" folks. I hope Disney cancels your FPs and locks your MDE and your next trip is filled with the long standby lines your shenanigans make the people who play by the rules have to wait in.

Have a magical day

 

[Marionnette]

Clearly Disney views this behavior as an issue or they wouldn't be trying to curb it. To believe that the few people on these boards that actively talk about this stuff are the only people who know about it is pretty egotistical. To think that TAs aren't using these techniques on a much larger scale for money is naive . To think that no one else is being effected is willful ignorance. And to assert that it is okay because you are getting away with it or must not be wrong because no one is catching you and stopping you is just unethical.

I think it is pretty clear that using the onsite booking window for offsite guests is against the rules, especially if they aren't in your traveling party, but if we just give it a cute name like the umbrella then that makes everything ok. You know a TA or Disney planner can fit hundreds or thousands of people under an umbrella.

The fact that WDW is trying to change the system to stop the abuse means that it is abuse. If you have to go and find a new way to cheat because Disney stopped the last one, then I think we can all throw the argument that it isn't cheating out the window.

Feel free to keep justifying it anyway you want. The fact that Disney views it as an issue and is trying to stop it is the only evidence I need that it is having a negative impact on the system and is against the rules, but I guess if there is one thing I have learned from my years on these boards it is that we all know better than Disney, am I right.

I'm going to step away from this thread now because it is depressing and upsetting. Happy "strategizing" folks. I hope Disney cancels your FPs and locks your MDE and your next trip is filled with the long standby lines your shenanigans make the people who play by the rules have to wait in.

Have a Disney Day! It’s probably best that you do step away from this thread. It seems to be upsetting you tremendously if you find it necessary to wish ill will on people over FastPasses.

 

[JenniferYoung44]

Clearly Disney views this behavior as an issue or they wouldn't be trying to curb it. To believe that the few people on these boards that actively talk about this stuff are the only people who know about it is pretty egotistical. To think that TAs aren't using these techniques on a much larger scale for money is naive . To think that no one else is being effected is willful ignorance. And to assert that it is okay because you are getting away with it or must not be wrong because no one is catching you and stopping you is just unethical.

I think it is pretty clear that using the onsite booking window for offsite guests is against the rules, especially if they aren't in your traveling party, but if we just give it a cute name like the umbrella then that makes everything ok. You know a TA or Disney planner can fit hundreds or thousands of people under an umbrella.

The fact that WDW is trying to change the system to stop the abuse means that it is abuse. If you have to go and find a new way to cheat because Disney stopped the last one, then I think we can all throw the argument that it isn't cheating out the window.

Feel free to keep justifying it anyway you want. The fact that Disney views it as an issue and is trying to stop it is the only evidence I need that it is having a negative impact on the system and is against the rules, but I guess if there is one thing I have learned from my years on these boards it is that we all know better than Disney, am I right.

I'm going to step away from this thread now because it is depressing and upsetting. Happy "strategizing" folks. I hope Disney cancels your FPs and locks your MDE and your next trip is filled with the long standby lines your shenanigans make the people who play by the rules have to wait in.

Wow. It always amazes me the things people will say when the anonymity of social media keeps everyone from seeing their glass house.

 

[otten]

Since Disney hasn't actually been cancelling FP when reservations are cancelled and the only change that seems to have actually been implemented is having FP eligibility directly tied to a resort stay I think it's a stretch to assume that Disney saw a problem with leading reservations and abuse of the 60 day window and fixed it.

I think they did want FP eligibility to be more directly tied to resort reservation. I believe the old way FP worked with rolling windows for offsite guests and overlapping windows for split stays was a quirk of the FP IT system and not a deliberate move on Disney's part. I think they found an IT solution for that quirk and implemented it.

I also think that people who think this is going to magically fix FP availability are going to be as disappointed as they were when SDFP hacks were eliminated. Early May is a slow time, maybe one of the last remaining slower time and probably even more so this year because of people waiting for SWGE.

 

[Viking7641]

³

I would postulate that the mere announcement of the crack down and the explicit statements saying that we will cancel your FPs has begun to curb the process. I would agree that the historical dip in May is due to a lack of offsite strategists that time of year, but having traveled this time of year 3 out of the last 4 years, the availability described seems significantly better than my recollection.

I dont think wdw runs seasonal variations in FP+ allocations.

The math says that at any given time there are approximately 90,000 onsite guests (including partner hotels). The assumption is that most headliners have approximately 17,000-22,000 Fp+ a day. Assuming that the guests are somewhat equally spread between the parks and some % either dont go to a park, don't know or bother to book at 60+ or dont choose the #1 top headliner in their park of choice, then there should almost never be a shortage at the beginning of the 60+ window. Sure, the 1 newest ride might be tough to get at 60, but not the 1 in every park. Hotel capacity just doesnt allow for that to be true.

My math could be significantly wrong, but I'm pretty confident in it. That leaves abuse as the culprit and that means the strategists with their fannypacks full of umbrellas, silly acronyms, and justifications are responsible for strategizing away once in a life pixie dust from families on their only trip.

I followed this thread because I often book split stays, and I wanted to see how the new policies would effect them. Honestly I'm fine if they eliminate my split stay window now that I understand how it is being abused. I'm appalled by the idea of booking a lead reservation to extend the booking window just to cancel it. I'm appalled by a lot of the so called "strategies" being shared and discussed here. They are clearly and unabashedly designed to circumvent rules and game the system and despite what people may claim, abusing the system hurts everyone in the system.

Thank you

This decision probably wasn’t on a whim. It has likely been abused for years for it to be changed

 

[otterpop]

Clearly Disney views this behavior as an issue or they wouldn't be trying to curb it. To believe that the few people on these boards that actively talk about this stuff are the only people who know about it is pretty egotistical. To think that TAs aren't using these techniques on a much larger scale for money is naive . To think that no one else is being effected is willful ignorance. And to assert that it is okay because you are getting away with it or must not be wrong because no one is catching you and stopping you is just unethical.

I think it is pretty clear that using the onsite booking window for offsite guests is against the rules, especially if they aren't in your traveling party, but if we just give it a cute name like the umbrella then that makes everything ok. You know a TA or Disney planner can fit hundreds or thousands of people under an umbrella.

The fact that WDW is trying to change the system to stop the abuse means that it is abuse. If you have to go and find a new way to cheat because Disney stopped the last one, then I think we can all throw the argument that it isn't cheating out the window.

Feel free to keep justifying it anyway you want. The fact that Disney views it as an issue and is trying to stop it is the only evidence I need that it is having a negative impact on the system and is against the rules, but I guess if there is one thing I have learned from my years on these boards it is that we all know better than Disney, am I right.

I'm going to step away from this thread now because it is depressing and upsetting. Happy "strategizing" folks. I hope Disney cancels your FPs and locks your MDE and your next trip is filled with the long standby lines your shenanigans make the people who play by the rules have to wait in.

???? Wow...and here I was actually supporting you in my post from last night (that for some reason I can longer find!). You seem like the person who would step in a melted Mickey ice cream bar at MK and have it ruin your whole day!

"Cheer up Charlie..."

 

[rteetz]

Let's stay on topic please.

 

[adam.adbe]

³
The math says that at any given time there are approximately 90,000 onsite guests (including partner hotels). The assumption is that most headliners have approximately 17,000-22,000 Fp+ a day.

...

You're making a lot of assumptions, some of which seem questionable. First off, even Disney know there isn't adequate FP availability for all parks, that's why Epcot has the tiers. Your 17K as the low bar is questionable too. Take FoP: assuming hours 9-8:30 (I.E. May) with no after hours events, which just reduces the FP pool further, you have a max of 17,825 riders per day. At the more generally accepted mix of mix of 80/20% FP/Standby you have a max of 14,260 FPs per day. Even if FP allocation is as high as 90% for that ride, that's only 16K riders, and that is the absolute headliner in a park that really only has two other FP worthy attractions. Even EE, which is generally considered a decent capacity ride, has a max of 19K FPs. By contrast, KS actually supports a little over 24K FP a day, so there's that.

MK has enough rides to move people around, and first timers for example, might not know that you typically don't need an FP for PotC. Even there though, take 7DMT, which has an hourly capacity of less than 1500, so 1200 FPs - the only way that ride hits your lower bound is if MK is open for 15 hours, which is not often.

I'm not especially interested in FP strategies, and I'm good with loopholes being closed, but I don't think 60 day availability has anything to do with it. That's a problem that will exist regardless, and will only be fixed by Disney spending money. All Disney care about here is empty rooms in resorts, and if packing the resorts to the gills would bring down room rates, I'd be right up there on the soapbox with you, but it wont. If anything full resorts will just encourage higher room rates, and the lines for breakfast will suck that bit more.

 

[anomamatt]

Clearly Disney views this behavior as an issue or they wouldn't be trying to curb it.

As relevant to this thread: if Disney did want to curb EOWO use, they would. It wouldn't be hard at all, I can think of several ways of preventing it without disruption to other guests. But Disney has not stopped it (to date) and it doesn't appear they are trying to stop it, either. Thus, I would disagree that Disney views EOWO and FP+ strategies as an issue.

I've steered clear of morality, but whether Disney wants EOWO closed (or not) is relevant to this thread.

 

[Wish Upon A Starbucks]

³

I would postulate that the mere announcement of the crack down and the explicit statements saying that we will cancel your FPs has begun to curb the process. I would agree that the historical dip in May is due to a lack of offsite strategists that time of year, but having traveled this time of year 3 out of the last 4 years, the availability described seems significantly better than my recollection.

I dont think wdw runs seasonal variations in FP+ allocations.

The math says that at any given time there are approximately 90,000 onsite guests (including partner hotels). The assumption is that most headliners have approximately 17,000-22,000 Fp+ a day. Assuming that the guests are somewhat equally spread between the parks and some % either dont go to a park, don't know or bother to book at 60+ or dont choose the #1 top headliner in their park of choice, then there should almost never be a shortage at the beginning of the 60+ window. Sure, the 1 newest ride might be tough to get at 60, but not the 1 in every park. Hotel capacity just doesnt allow for that to be true.

My math could be significantly wrong, but I'm pretty confident in it. That leaves abuse as the culprit and that means the strategists with their fannypacks full of umbrellas, silly acronyms, and justifications are responsible for strategizing away once in a life pixie dust from families on their only trip.

I followed this thread because I often book split stays, and I wanted to see how the new policies would effect them. Honestly I'm fine if they eliminate my split stay window now that I understand how it is being abused. I'm appalled by the idea of booking a lead reservation to extend the booking window just to cancel it. I'm appalled by a lot of the so called "strategies" being shared and discussed here. They are clearly and unabashedly designed to circumvent rules and game the system and despite what people may claim, abusing the system hurts everyone in the system.

Need.More.Pepto.

 

[mustinjourney]

If this was being done by such a small and insignificant # of people like you are claiming WDW wouldn't be putting the time and effort into correcting it. These are signficant changes that are complex, disruptive, and expensive for disney. They aren't doing this for fun. This abuse has become rampant to the point WDW felt forced to make a change. It was effecting their room inventory which is massive. And their customers satisfaction, wh6for Disney is gold.

On some parts of these forums people discuss and share these "strategies," but other areas of these forums are littered with frustrated guests who face massive lines and the inability to book experiences inpart as result of these exploits.

Ways to cheat the system are a Google search away. Scores of TAs and paid Disney planners are exploiting these techniques for lists of clients everyday.

The people on these forums are developing and testing these techniques which are then spread online and through a network of people and businesses that exploit these loopholes to make money at everyone else's expense.

Disney doesn't revamp their IT to plug holes used by the one and only strategist. To think that you would have to be both naive and narcissistic. If this was a handful of folks a day sneaking FP+s a few days early Disney would look the other way. That is not what this is. Disney is making a big and cumbersome investment into updating their databases and IT structures to try to curb this. They wouldn't be doing that if this wasn't a legitimate problem.

I stand by my math, and more to the point Disney has done way more math than me, and their math said this problem was big enough to trigger spending and IT headaches to correct.

I *think* Disney is doing this b/c they are about to start charging money for FPs -- or at least some premium version. The last crack down came around the time of the club level 90 FP -- and this crack down is coming right before SW:GE. Just wait -- it's coming.

 

[otten]

I *think* Disney is doing this b/c they are about to start charging money for FPs -- or at least some premium version. The last crack down came around the time of the club level 90 FP -- and this crack down is coming right before SW:GE. Just wait -- it's coming.

Yea I can't imagine Disney not monetizing FP for Star Wars in some form.

 

[cakebaker]

I just checked the campsite availability for my upcoming week in May and all the week days are available for one night stays (throwaway campsites, if someone were to use it that way). I checked all three types of campsites, and all were available for each day of the week. If there were so many people using this strategy, wouldn't there be less or no availability? At two months prior to a Disney trip people usually have their plans pretty much set.

If you booked a throwaway room and you lost the very advantage doing that got you, it’s no big deal to cancel it which is what I’m sure a lot of people did.

And we can’t have the argument both ways- The change hasn’t increased availability because May is slow but then argue that campsite availability on May proves that not that many people use throwaway rooms.

 

[cakebaker]

Early May is booked up at resorts due to cheerleading competitions, they take up tons of rooms at the values but the impact in the parks is minimal.

That doesn’t explain moderates and slim pickings at deluxe resorts. I just mentioned what was completely sold out, but several of the deluxe are booked as well.

I’m sure early May is not as busy as other times, but I don’t think that fully explains the current abundance of fp.

 

[Kris10karma]

I *think* Disney is doing this b/c they are about to start charging money for FPs -- or at least some premium version. The last crack down came around the time of the club level 90 FP -- and this crack down is coming right before SW:GE. Just wait -- it's coming.

Yup. Yup. Money. They really dont care if John Q Public can get a fastpass for SDD. What they want to do is encourage people to book onsite stays and long ones. Monetized fastpasses are coming....they'll go like hotcakes too and people will be booking overlapping leading window opening extended reservations just to be able to pay for them sooner. I do not think strategists affect the FP pool by enough for it count despite anecdotal evidence and I really dont think the availability of FP is what Disney is cracking down on...no matter how much people might wanna show those darn naughty strategists

 

[otten]

That doesn’t explain moderates and slim pickings at deluxe resorts. I just mentioned what was completely sold out, but several of the deluxe are booked as well.

I’m sure early May is not as busy as other times, but I don’t think that fully explains the current abundance of fp.

As someone who just booked I also think abundance is maybe overstating the increase in FP availability. It is definitely better than it has been but perhaps not as much better as some people seem to think.

The cheer events actually does explain lack of availability in other categories also. If the values are all full of competitors the park guests who would have booked a value will need to book a moderate. That causes the moderates to fill up. Taking a huge chunk of rooms out of the pool affects availability at all resorts.