DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[Sandisw]

You definitely could be right, but it's fun to ponder and speculate.

Why are you thinking that it's still years away? Why file the trust papers if not moving the concept forward reasonably soon? Whatever reasonably soon means.

They wanted to secure the name? Because sometimes ideas get thought of way ahead of time?

The notice that deeded interests will be sold for CFW means at most they are looking at a hybrid model??

 

[mort1331]

As points are added to the trust, at leqst for Florida portions, we should be able to see the sale on the registras website, no?

 

[AdamsMum]

I guess we will see when it happens. I still have a feeling this is years away.

I hope so, like 19 years away, and I hope you're right about the contracts. I'm deeply concerned about DVC making this kind of adjustment to the program. It was a great program, and with every "enhancement" they take away value. I bought where I want to stay. Seems like everything they touch, they mess up.

 

[dioxide45]

Let’s say I’m at the DVC sales center and I buy 150 trust points. You’re right that I own the “beneficiary use” of a sliver of all the different resorts in the trust, but that composition of points can and will change over time as more members buy in.

So. Now I’m DVD. I have 140k trust points sold this month so I need to add 140k points to the trust (whether this is done daily, monthly, or by intermittent allotment - or even before or after I buy - doesn’t matter).

Which of those resorts in which percentages to include is exclusively up to DVD. They don’t have to put in 40 Poly, 20 RIV, 50 CFW etc to match their current balance of my 150 pt contact. They can put in all 150 at RIV for my points.

Now that may change the composition of points in the trust but that is what it is. If you’re a beneficiary owner you get a percentage share of what DVD decides to include.

This would allow them to tweak the system to their advantage. No more discounting VGF points because RIV is selling better or vice versa. If Poly is selling better deeded, then we’ll just dump more RIV points into the trust to offset that.

Or. If we’re tired of keeping AUL on the books, we know who’ll buy them!!

The way Marriott does it, they keep about 18-24 months of unsold inventory in their trust. Right now I suspect they are kind of below those numbers because they are pretty active with ROFR. What can happen is they build a new resort and can really just declare 100% of the inventory to the trust right away. They don't need to trickle inventory in. They can rent out unsold trust point inventory for cash. The developer is responsible for the maintenance fees on the unsold trust inventory. DVC can sell those new points that came from that one resort as trust points and those trust points have the ability to reserve any resort that the trust owns starting at 11 months. Trust points that someone owns aren't tied to a specific resort. With trust points they could sell an underground bunker in Arkansas as trust points if they wanted to all while promising access to VGF or any other DVC resort. Diamond did this when their Hawaii Collection trust got low on inventory. They started adding some domestic mainland USA resorts to it so they could sell those points as if they had access to Hawaii. The problem with this is that it creates booking availability constraints within the system. I wouldn't see DVC doing this, but it just shows they can add anything to the trust and sell them as trust points.

 

[dioxide45]

As points are added to the trust, at leqst for Florida portions, we should be able to see the sale on the registras website, no?

I would expect to see conveyances of inventory added to the trust being recorded in Orange County Florida. It is possible that they create this trust in another state or county which charges a fee to view recorded trust information. For many years I maintained a list of all the inventory that Marriott Vacation Club conveyed to their trust.

 

[dioxide45]

You definitely could be right, but it's fun to ponder and speculate.

Why are you thinking that it's still years away? Why file the trust papers if not moving the concept forward reasonably soon? Whatever reasonably soon means.

I went to look and see when Marriott Vacation Club created the trust owners association vs when they actually filed the trust and initial points conveyances. MVC filed with the articles of incorporation on Sunbiz in February, recorded the trust in Orange County in March and rolled out their program in June. All this happened in 2010.

MVC was also working on their program for years prior to the rollout. These filings really don't cost them a lot in fees. Most of the costs are with employee labor and legal costs to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed. So even if they file these documents, there is no guarantee that anything happens.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Except they don’t own very much of the sold out resorts so those points won’t go too far.

Why set it up at first like that and risk an issue?

Wait 5 years as you gather more and then “enhance” the trust with more resorts?

I guess we will see when it happens. I still have a feeling this is years away.

I think it’s years away as well. And the closer a scheme such as this gets to the tactics of the other timeshare companies, tweaking the system in such a way that Disney is sticking to the letter of the law for what they promised deeded owners, but the changes could very well be a negative for which said owners have no legal recourse, is a very dangerous way to undermine an iconic, trusted brand.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I went to look and see when Marriott Vacation Club created the trust owners association vs when they actually filed the trust and initial points conveyances. MVC filed with the articles of incorporation on Sunbiz in February, recorded the trust in Orange County in March and rolled out their program in June. All this happened in 2010.

MVC was also working on their program for years prior to the rollout. These filings really don't cost them a lot in fees. Most of the costs are with employee labor and legal costs to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed. So even if they file these documents, there is no guarantee that anything happens.

Right, of course. There's little doubt that a great deal of time, energy, and staff resources likely went into the planning process before filing the articles of incorporation. So, if DVC follows the MVC timeline you've shared, then we should (hopefully) know more about Palmetto Trust reasonably soon.

 

[maui22]

If trust buys cheap resale points from the O14, wouldn’t they be restricted from RIV, VDH, and future restricted resorts?

 

[dioxide45]

If trust buys cheap resale points from the O14, wouldn’t they be restricted from RIV, VDH, and future restricted resorts?

I am not really sure what O14 means, but generally points sold by the developer are scrubbed of any restrictions.

 

[Chili327]

I am not really sure what O14 means, but generally points sold by the developer are scrubbed of any restrictions.

I’m gonna guess “Original 14” resorts.?

 

[aiden.b]

Caught wind of the DVC survey and I'm intrigued by the idea of a trust-based timeshare giving priority across multiple resorts. Reminds me of the 'choose your own adventure' but with Disney resorts! Still, I cherish my home resort priority - it's like having a VIP pass to my favorite Disney spot. Hoping they balance new ideas without overshadowing the charm of our beloved home resorts.

 

[maui22]

I am not really sure what O14 means, but generally points sold by the developer are scrubbed of any restrictions.

Would they have to use ROFR to become developer points?

My fear is they could send low-ball offers to every resale. Seller's wouldn't have to sell at their price, but imagine receiving offers multiple times a day when you try to sell. Basically, I was afraid Disney could attempt to drive down the resale price market.

If they use ROFR, wouldn't that offer support and drive up the resale prices overall?

 

[ljmiii]

Would they have to use ROFR to become developer points...My fear is they could send low-ball offers to every resale.

If they use ROFR, wouldn't that offer support and drive up the resale prices overall?

I've never heard of any timeshare company making unsolicited offers. Usually (assuming the timeshare in question has ROFR...some don't), they just cherry pick off the bottom of those transactions presented to them by ROFR. Sometimes they will purchase deeds when an owner approaches them to get out of the ownership...but the price offered is always less than the current market price.

As a practical matter, ROFR establishes a floor more than anything else. Most resale transactions aren't ROFR'd and the market sets whatever price willing sellers and buyers choose above the current ROFR threshold. But (for example) MVC stopped ROFR'ing during the peak of COVID and the market price of Abound Points dipped below the ~$3.50/per point that prevailed before and after.

 

[dioxide45]

Would they have to use ROFR to become developer points?

My fear is they could send low-ball offers to every resale. Seller's wouldn't have to sell at their price, but imagine receiving offers multiple times a day when you try to sell. Basically, I was afraid Disney could attempt to drive down the resale price market.

If they use ROFR, wouldn't that offer support and drive up the resale prices overall?

I believe DVC offered some OKW owners buybacks a couple years ago. So they could make low ball offers. I am not sure if this drives prices down as it does bring another big buyer to the market who soaks up inventory. Generally the big timeshare developers don't go out to the open market to buy back timeshare weeks or points. They rely on ROFR. I don't really see that method of inventory acquisition changing all that much.

 

[Sandisw]

If trust buys cheap resale points from the O14, wouldn’t they be restricted from RIV, VDH, and future restricted resorts?

Contracts DVD aquires from ROFR do not carry the restrictions. The document outlines that specifically.

Those contracts are dissolved and the inventory is back for sale.

 

[Brian Noble]

I've never heard of any timeshare company making unsolicited offers.

Wyndham had a few shell companies/fronts that it used to bid on ebay deeds not too long ago. For all I know, they are still doing it, though their Certified Exit program might have reduced any need to do so.

 

[Bo1203]

The sales floor is not interested in how easy it is to book some particular room. They only care about whether or not the possibility of booking it helps them to sell points.

So, is this a shell game to make buyers believe they have 11 month booking at multiple resorts, when in reality the popular resort(s) in the trust will be difficult to book and most trust members will only find availability at the less favored resorts?

I fear a version with AUL, SSR being included.

 

[Paul Stupin]

So, is this a shell game to make buyers believe they have 11 month booking at multiple resorts, when in reality the popular resort(s) in the trust will be difficult to book and most trust members will only find availability at the less favored resorts?

I fear a version with AUL, SSR being included.

I have that same question. And I fear that, in some way, down the line, it will make booking more difficult for deeded owners at 11 months. And I also don’t like the fact that this is an adoption of a strategy used by other time share companies, in which I don’t hold as high a regard. So that makes it seem like its more of a money grab, and erodes some of my trust.

 

[dioxide45]

I have that same question. And I fear that, in some way, down the line, it will make booking more difficult for deeded owners at 11 months. And I also don’t like the fact that this is an adoption of a strategy used by other time share companies, in which I don’t hold as high a regard. So that makes it seem like its more of a money grab, and erodes some of my trust.

13 years into the MVC trust program and it seems that point owners are the ones that complain about being able to make reservations and deeded weeks owners are still quite happy. Some weeks owners have a few complaints but overall owning deeded weeks at the resort you want to go to is still the best option and will probably always be the best option. Trust programs allow the developer to package up underperforming resorts and sell them as something new, shiny and great, when the reality is much different.