Marathon Weekend 2018

[bryana]

ZellyB - If it makes you feel better the boards on Facebook have been saying the race retreat is sold out I debated getting the VIP retreat myself for months seeing as this is my first marathon. I couldn’t justify it though since I’d really just be using it pre-race and heard you still head out early and wait in the corral for a long time anyways. If I was a fast runner then I can see it being worth it.

Yeah, it’s been sold out for at least a few weeks. I put it off when I registered and then went on a month or so ago when I remembered I never did and it was sold out for the marathon. Goofy and the half were available but not just the marathon. Now it looks like only the half is available.

 

[croach]

So I just remembered I don't have a hotel booked for our last night there! We extended out plane tickets so we could DATW on Monday then go home Tuesday. Now I have a room thru Monday and a plane out on Tuesday. Hopefully they will have availability for a while as I don't have the money to book a room right now (since they make you pay upfront for the 1st night!)

I just got an email from my travel and it sounds like they have a few rooms left in their group rates. Not sure at which resorts though. Let me know if you want her info.

 

[Dis5150]

I just got an email from my travel and it sounds like they have a few rooms left in their group rates. Not sure at which resorts though. Let me know if you want her info.

Sure! I can at least see what they have, even if I can't book it till payday! Thanks!

 

[MissLiss279]

For anyone that has purchased race retreat, does it show up in your order history on Active?

I have purchased it (and have the email confirmation), but it’s not showing up in Active. I thought it had shown up there last year. I just want to make sure I don’t miss out on the ticket for early entry to the expo that they email out if for some reason, Active deleted my registration.

 

[daisyamy]

For anyone that has purchased race retreat, does it show up in your order history on Active?

It does not show up for me. Under Order History, I have to click on Manage Registration, then "Registration and QR Code" on the next page, and then when my registration information shows up on the next page I can scroll down and see my related orders.

 

[PrincessV]

For the marathon sign-up I entered a time of 4:30 but did not submit proof of time. Is it guaranteed I will be in the last corral? (Reason for not submitting proof of time was I had never run a race longer than a 5k until my half marathon last month, after the deadline) I had originally signed up with a time of 5:30 since PoT was not required, but then changed it to 4:30 figuring worst they would do is put me back in the 5:30 group.

Officially, yes - this is exactly the situation that results in being places in the last corral, per rD's verbiage:

If you believe you will finish the Half Marathon in less than 2:45 hours or the Marathon in less than 5:30 hours, proof of time is required for start corral placement.

If proof of time is not provided by October 3, 2017, data provided is incomplete or cannot be verified, you will be placed in the last start corral.

It doesn't always happen, though. I know a couple people who forgot to submit their required PoTs and were not placed in the last corral. But I think that's really the exception, not the norm. I'd anticipate being in the last and anything else will be a happy surprise! But FWIW, the last corral gets an unfair bad reputation, IMO. In any corral I've been in, there have been people faster than I, slower than I, and the same speed as I. No matter where you start, just go in with a good attitude, run your own race, be courteous, and you'll have fun!

My situation is somewhat unusual I think. The best POT that I can provide is 2:51:44 (13:07 min/mile) for a half. I think my starting residence will be near or in the last corral - the Balloon Ladies will be visible.

You shouldn't be in the back with that PoT, unless you entered a slower finish time. They use the estimated finish time to seed corrals, so if you selected, say, a 3:00:00 finish, that's where you should be placed, not in the last corral, nor in the 3:30:00 corral. Do you know what you entered for finish time?

 

[MissLiss279]

It does not show up for me. Under Order History, I have to click on Manage Registration, then "Registration and QR Code" on the next page, and then when my registration information shows up on the next page I can scroll down and see my related orders.

Thanks for that! I did click on that link, but I didn’t scroll all the way down. I now see it!

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm grateful for this information. Thank you.

My situation is somewhat unusual I think. The best POT that I can provide is 2:51:44 (13:07 min/mile) for a half. I think my starting residence will be near or in the last corral - the Balloon Ladies will be visible. Since that POT race, improvement has been dramatic and it's not totally impossible that I could run at 10 min/mile for the Disney half. There is no official POT that can verify the improvement - they don't (and shouldn't) accept FIT files. With this information there is now hope that the performance might not be too adversely affected by corral placement.

I'll assume you put in an estimated finish time of 2:45 which would be corral K, L or M in the 2017 Disney HM. These corrals generally start about 40-50 minutes after the race start. The situation of starting further back and attaining peak performance is a bit more difficult in a HM then a M, but still not impossible. The HM has less distance, less time involved, and most importantly less places where there is wide open space to make movements freely. Below is the 2017 HM course:



Starting from the further back corrals the course will be more congested than the earlier corrals. There is highway running from mile 0 to 3 and then in general in tightens up until mile 7.5 (right after cone alley). So if I were preparing for this race, I would consider mentally breaking it into 3 parts (0 to 3, 3 to 7.5 and 7.5 to finish). I believe 7.5 to finish is where your real ability to race will come into play. Much more space to do your own thing. Pacing wise, the advice stays the same. Try to weave as little as possible and remain calm and courteous. Since 7.5 to finish is almost a 10k (5.6 miles) maybe you could challenge yourself with the goal of a 7.5 mile warm up and then a 10k PR to finish.

Here are some random race results from the 2016 HM:



You're looking for a 40-50 min differential. I see plenty of examples (14?) of that around that finishing time in this very small subset of runners as well. Even some 60 min differentials. You'll be fine as long as you stay calm, courteous and positive throughout the race.

 

[DopeyBadger]

For the marathon sign-up I entered a time of 4:30 but did not submit proof of time. Is it guaranteed I will be in the last corral? (Reason for not submitting proof of time was I had never run a race longer than a 5k until my half marathon last month, after the deadline) I had originally signed up with a time of 5:30 since PoT was not required, but then changed it to 4:30 figuring worst they would do is put me back in the 5:30 group.

I'm grateful for this information. Thank you.

My situation is somewhat unusual I think. The best POT that I can provide is 2:51:44 (13:07 min/mile) for a half. I think my starting residence will be near or in the last corral - the Balloon Ladies will be visible. Since that POT race, improvement has been dramatic and it's not totally impossible that I could run at 10 min/mile for the Disney half. There is no official POT that can verify the improvement - they don't (and shouldn't) accept FIT files. With this information there is now hope that the performance might not be too adversely affected by corral placement.

I'll add one other thing - pay attention to the tangents. If you are unaware, the tangents are the shortest route between two data points. The course is measured (13.11 or 26.22 miles) on the tangents. So run the inside of a curve instead of the outside,

or on an S-shaped road (that weaves back and forth) run the middle (as long as it's legal racing road).



(Edit to thumbnail since this image is HUGE!)

So what happens if you spend your time weaving or trying to run in the least congested area (which may not be the tangent). Let's try a thought experiment:

Let's say your goal pace is a 10 min/mile. You decide to dodge and weave your way through the course to maintain that 10 min/mile. Let's say that your GPS device is accurate and measures the distance you actually covered accurately. At the end of the race, you cross the HM finish line with your GPS reading 14.0 miles and a 10 min/mile (finish time of 140 minutes or 2:20).

Now what would the pace be if you had run the tangents (and assume your GPS came out to 13.11 instead) for the exact same finish time (2:20)?

It's a 10:41 min/mile (2:20 in 13.11 miles).

Now think about that. A 40 second differential per mile just based on running the tangents (albeit an extreme example of someone running 14.0 miles of extra road). Ask yourself which is easier, running 13.11 miles at a 10:41 or 14.0 miles at a 10 min/mile? Sometimes passing people is the right decision, but sometimes maintaining the tangent can far outweigh that. I've run the Disney HM three times with distances of 13.18, 13.22, and 13.20. I try very hard to run the tangents at all times because I know that I can slow up and still finish faster by running the tangent. Now if you can combine running the tangents with the 10 min/mile at some points (instead of the 10:41), then you'll finish faster than both of the above hypothetical runners.

To know the tangents, is to memorize the course in advance. Know where each upcoming turn is and what kind of turn it is. By pre-planning these things, you can always slowly groove your way over to the appropriate tangent line.

 

[AlexRunsDisney]

Putting in 4:30 having only ever run a 5k is exactly why they put you in the back without POT.

I ran a 2:11 at the Wine and Dine Half Marathon last month. Your reply also doesn't really answer my question.

 

[ZellyB]

I haven't gotten any of these exciting runDisney emails. The race retreat only shows as available for the half marathon on Active when I look so that may make your decision easier.

Phew! Financial dilemma averted!!

 

[AlexRunsDisney]

Just a speculation or guess on my part, but they are likely to assign you to the last corral. You'll know more definitively in about 1.5 weeks when the waivers/corrals are released.

Now, don't freak out. When you go to the expo to pick up your bib, head over to race relations. Bring with you the 5k and recent HM results printed out. Have those sheets to help show what you're capable of at those distances. Bring a smile and hope for the best that they may be able to move you into a further ahead corral. They might be able to help you, and sometimes they aren't. It's no guarantee.

But, even if you do end up in the last corral unable to move up, just keep some things in mind to help your race experience. Show up early on marathon morning. Head to the front of the last corral so that you can be one of the first people released in it. Stay calm and run your race as best you can. Stay courteous to those around you as it may get crowded and the people around you may or may not be running as fast as you are. Try to keep a positive outlook. Don't get frustrated. There are definitely sections of the course that open up more than others (regardless if you're in corral C or P). So don't worry if a certain section seems overly crowded. Just conserve energy, make a small move when you can, and then bide time until the next wide open highway section. You'll waste lots more precious energy by weaving than just sticking behind someone for a few extra seconds. Being in the last corral won't completely inhibit you from running a fast race (if that's your desire). Below is a screen shot of some random marathon results:

View attachment 287187

The left column is "Clock Time" and the right is "Net Time". The differential between them comes from how long after the race started that they actually started. So a person with a 35 min differential started the race 35 min after the first person started (therefore they're in a further back corral). The last corral leaves about 50-60 minutes after the race starts. Just from this small subset I see a few people who ran sub-4 marathons who started in one of the last corrals (4:37 vs 3:52, 4:29, vs 3:53, 4:31 vs 3:54, 4:54 vs 3:56, and 4:51 vs 3:56). And this is just a small subset that I barely even had to try and to search out for these results.

Thanks for this. This was very helpful. Although I obviously would prefer to be put in the correct corral, starting from the last corral is not a HUGE deal to me like it may be for some people. Being my first marathon, my main goal is to just finish. I am anticipating a time around 4:35:00 but above all I would love to just have a fun time, stop, take pictures, etc. I just don't want to be stuck walking in congested areas.

 

[ZellyB]

Thanks for this. This was very helpful. Although I obviously would prefer to be put in the correct corral, starting from the last corral is not a HUGE deal to me like it may be for some people. Being my first marathon, my main goal is to just finish. I am anticipating a time around 4:35:00 but above all I would love to just have a fun time, stop, take pictures, etc. I just don't want to be stuck walking in congested areas.

And these are the best possible goals to have going into a Disney race!! I would say you'll end up walking more than likely through congested areas whether or not you start in the last corral or middle of the pack - at least that has been my experience. It's sort of inevitable when running the Disney marathon unless you are maybe in the very early corrals. Fortunately, those areas are usually brief and you can find the opportunity to get back to your normal pace soon enough. Have a great time running your first marathon. You couldn't have picked a better one in my opinion!!

 

[AlexRunsDisney]

It's very likely they will put you in a later corral. My understanding, based on previous discussions with other board members is that when you put a time like that with no PoT in is that it is up to TrackShack to put you in the appropriate corral. It's certainly easy for them to go and say 'anyone who didn't follow the directions and put an estimated finish time without the supporting PoT gets sent to the last corral' but they may just as easily put you in the first of the corrals that don't require PoT. It really depends on how generous they're feeling when making the corrals. Not having a PoT would have put you solidly between L and P last year (with P being the last corral).

There's really no way to know for sure until the corrals come out but if you find yourself in the last corral and truly can (based on your half marathon time) run a 4:30 I would suggest going to race relations. They may not be willing to assist you as they generally have those deadlines for a reason but they also want everyone on the course to be safe which is why they use corrals to keep runners of like paces together in the first place.

That's what I thought as well. I originally put an estimated time of 5:30 when I signed up last February, but then I switched it to 4:30 when I had a better estimate of when I would finish. I just figured if they don't put me in the 4:30 corral, worst they would do is put me in the first corral that doesn't require PoT (I'm learning now though, that may not be the case).

If I do get put in one of the last corrals, I will likely go to the Expo on the first day with printed results of the Wine and Dine Half Marathon (I'm hoping since it was a runDisney race it might count for more), and see if I can get a change. I have heard of people getting changes years ago, but I have not heard of anyone in the last 2 years getting a switch at the Expo. Worst they can do is say no.

 

[JeffW]

To know the tangents, is to memorize the course in advance. Know where each upcoming turn is and what kind of turn it is. By pre-planning these things, you can always slowly groove your way over to the appropriate tangent line.

Good advice from DopeyBadger here. At Disney especially, there are some HUGE sweeping turns that you don't want to be on the outside of. After the TTC "toll booths" you are on a road that is 4 (or 5?) lanes wide that weaves back and forth through the parking lot. There is A LOT of extra distance possible in this area. Try to pay extra attention in the sections of the course that feel spread out, because Disney has quite a few wide roads and paths that are optimized for high volume, not minimizing your distance.

 

[rootbeerkid]

You shouldn't be in the back with that PoT, unless you entered a slower finish time. They use the estimated finish time to seed corrals, so if you selected, say, a 3:00:00 finish, that's where you should be placed, not in the last corral, nor in the 3:30:00 corral. Do you know what you entered for finish time?

@PrincessV - Full disclosure - what I can't remember and fear that I omitted was entering the POT after that half was completed on 9/16. So I may be POT-less and if so I will need to apply all of @DopeyBadger recommendations to work this. The understanding being that POT-less folks are assigned to the last corral.

 

[ell13]

I ran a 2:11 at the Wine and Dine Half Marathon last month. Your reply also doesn't really answer my question.

Congrats. And my reply did answer you. You're going to the back. One of the last corrals. Not much you can do about it. My point was that there's a reason POT is important. And it's because people put in guesses as to how fast they can run without actually knowing what they can do. And there's nothing wrong with that; active.com asks you to supply an estimation. It wasn't an insult; it just explains the reasoning behind the placement.

My half PR is a 2:04. When I did Dopey in 2015, my times were around 2:09 and 5:10. But I haven't run competitively lately, so all I had was last year's W&D which I did just for kicks and took my time with a bunch of pictures. 2:50. I submitted that one, but I know they'll put me toward the back even though I can finish around 2:10. I've got a half this week, but I don't expect Disney to move me based on that number. So I'll likely be back there with you. With your half time, you have nothing to worry about.

ETA: And sure enough, I'm looking through my old times now and I had a 2:10 half run on 1/17/2016... So I'm an idiot for forgetting about that one since it was just inside the deadline.

 

[Sailormoon2]

@DopeyBadger, none of it applies to me (hopefully they accept my POT) but I really wanted to commend you on the time and thought you put into your answers to (hopefully) alleviate the fears of those without a POT.

 

[courtneybeth]

Those trying to get moved in corrals... good luck. I've had no such luck twice on the Disneyland races at DLH and Avengers. The runDisney people at Solutions said that unless it was an error on their part (i.e, I submitted a POT of 2:33 and they put 3:23 in), then they can't move me because I was properly slotted at the time, even though I'm much faster than my corral. They are firm and strict with the cut off dates. They will pull up your submitted POT on a computer then compare it to what they have. Sometimes it is, indeed, an error and you'll get moved. No POT submitted ... more than likely they will have you stay where you are.

Just trying to be realistic.

 

[CanadianPaco]

We're staying at ASSp!!!